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-   -   Ethos FR Snake Oil Or The Real Deal? (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/ethos-fr-snake-oil-real-deal-2503.html)

Greenblazer 05-23-2008 07:07 AM

Ethos FR Snake Oil Or The Real Deal?
 
Hey Ya'll,

I came accross this( http://www.thegassecret.net/index.html ) product with pretty convincing advertising, but a search here has not provided me with any results that give me confidence that this is not just another snake oil product.

My search skills do leave something to be desired, so forgive me if I missed it, but has this stuff been tested or discussed by Ecomodders? Does it work as claimed? Will it save me money and make my engine last longer?

Thanks!

Later,

Allan Greenblazer

adam728 05-23-2008 08:20 AM

So much BS on that site.

So he credits all California smog reduction and tailpipe emissions reductions since 1980 on only gasoline formulation? What about catalytic convertors, fuel injection, improved engine controls, evaporative emissions contols, etc etc?

I really like the claim that the Impala emitted zero emissions after using the product.

It would be sweet if someone would spend the time to do emissions on their car a few times and get some data for their "Double your money back guarantee".

My opinion - the product may do something, but there is no way it's going to meet the claims made there.

MetroMPG 05-23-2008 09:00 AM

Allan, have you had a look around http://fuelsaving.info?

It's a highly recommended read for the rationally-minded fuel efficiency enthusiast.

There's a specific page there about Ethos: http://www.fuelsaving.info/ethos.htm

Greenblazer 05-26-2008 05:34 AM

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the information. I was thinking it sounded fishy, but wanted some other opinions. They will not be getting my money.

Later,

Allan Greenblazer

SVOboy 05-26-2008 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenblazer (Post 28535)
Hey Guys,

Thanks for the information. I was thinking it sounded fishy, but wanted some other opinions. They will not be getting my money.

Later,

Allan Greenblazer

Good plan, :thumbup:

SickMPGs 08-04-2008 05:32 PM

What did I sign?
 
Why is there a scam fuel saver under everyones post? Who is the man behind the curtain, here?
Great Idea tho, build a forum just for people looking to get better mpgs and then sell them some snake oil. Is Ethos FU an MLM Networkmarketing ploy?
What I didn't undersatnd about it is if your cars owners manual says to use 87 octain, why would you add something to your fuel to increase it. Running your engine hotter might ruin something, no?

MetroMPG 08-04-2008 06:31 PM

Can you be more specific about what you're seeing and where, SickMPGs?

You may be seeing a Google Ad - we have no ad arrangements with any specific companies.

For a skeptical view of Ethos, see: Fuel saving gadgets - a professional engineer's view: Ethos FR

SickMPGs 08-20-2008 04:30 PM

MertroMPG

GreenBlazer has about 4 gas saving links under his post and if you come back later it might be a Wacovia link.
Thanks for the Ethos info, Metro, I'd say there isnt much of any proof.

Ford Man 08-23-2008 04:42 PM

I read on a forum somewhere about a person trying Ethos and not getting any benefit from it and was also having a hard time with the company getting the double money back guarantee. I considered trying it once and found someone selling it on eBay much cheaper that the company's web site. I emailed the seller and ask him if he would honor the guarantee and he gave me a straight out NO. That changed my mind about trying it.

MetroMPG 08-24-2008 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SickMPGs (Post 54877)
MertroMPG

GreenBlazer has about 4 gas saving links under his post and if you come back later it might be a Wacovia link.
Thanks for the Ethos info, Metro, I'd say there isnt much of any proof.

Yes, those are just the Google Ads. Some of them are pretty terrible in terms of peddling junk and scams. It's practically a full time job trying to stay on top of them and add them to our filter because as soon as you kill one, 2 more pop up. Breed like rabbits.

We're aiming to reduce the proportion of Google Ads on the site.

ecossebloke 09-26-2008 07:07 AM

The proof is in the pudding
 
I had a wee look at the comments about Ethos FR and feel I should give you a wee heads up. I have used this in Scotland for 18 months and estimate that I have got around 5,000 extra miles - a saving every time I fill up of around 15% of my fuel bill. My engine emissions are well down. It works!

I have been so impressed with Ethos FR that I have now (mid Sept 2008) negotiated the UK licence to supply Ethos FR to public and corporate sector organisations - not on any MLM arrangement but a more traditional retail and distribution business model.

I am involved in a variety of business networks and a number of businesses in Central Scotland now use Ethos FR. Indeed, one joinery business used this before I went over to the USA to finalise things with the licence and upon my return they had secured 3 more customers as they had been so impressed by the product.

Bill Young, weekend presenter on Talk 107 Radio (East Central Scotland station) tried the product and had back live on air to reveal his findings. His first word was "amazing". In 6 weeks he had saved around 60 (roughly 12% of his fuel costs), the performance of his car was noticably improved and he even had the emissions checked at his local garage - they were well down. He was good enough to speak to the local newspaper and confirm all of this - not just live on his own show but in print.

I am not a network marketing fan and MLM is not a traditional business practice in the UK. It is fine to guess about a product and knock it without actually knowing if it works. Why not try it? I know that it works. I have many small businesses in Scotland who can confirm this, in addition to my own actual experience. I am so confident that I have made my own way to the USA to negotiate my licence and already have the first 2 councils in Scotland lined up to trial it.

Three councils in Florida have now signed up to use Ethos FR in all of their vehicles - North Miami council believe that the can cut their carbon footprint by 500 tons a year using Ethos FR as well as make around 10-12% savings on their fuel bill. There are serious fleet operators in the USA who have used this product for years.

It is fine to be scpetical - as I was before I used it - but please don't knock a product just because you have not tried it and just guess at its validity. I am saving money and reducing my own carbon footprint. I am now going to help UK councils and companies to potentially save money and cut their carbon footprint with a product that does exactly what it says on the bottle.

I hope that this is helpful. I am very committed to cutting waste, recycling and making a better world. I have been practicing these for over 20 years, so Ethos FR is a great part of what I do. In fact, I was at the Envirowise Awards in West Lothian only last night - one of the forums where I work with others to help build this better world I want to see.

Enjoy your driving but please be a little more open minded about the product. It is brilliant.

Tony Raine 09-26-2008 09:27 AM

Quote:

I have now (mid Sept 2008) negotiated the UK licence to supply Ethos FR to public and corporate sector organisations
so you're biased. SCAM. I'm also pretty sure this is a spam bot.


Anyways, lets just assume this product actually works as advertised (yeah, its very far-fetched, but bear with me). Dubya would make a national order to put this additive in ALL fuels. Since there is no patent, he could just have his minions produce it themselves. By making all vehicles get better mileage, people would rush head-over-heels back into those giant SUV's they just traded for metros. Eco drivers would buy up all the metros for pennies. People would take longer trips, drive more, therefore selling more oil. Economy gets a blissful boost, Oil profits skyrocket, the pres actually gets an approval rating just in time to boost the McBush/Palin campaign, and the republicans are labeled the heroes of the United States......


(sorry, gonna test the language filter here)

BULL****

ecossebloke 09-26-2008 09:51 AM

No SCAM, just a very good product
 
It is sad that some people are so cynical and will not be open minded to listen to a variety of opinions or evidence. Just because you have made your mind up and closed it to the reality that Ethos FR works does not mean that your opinion makes it a scam.

Yes, of course I am biased. I have actually used it for 18 months and am now building a business around it. Most fuel companies have their own products that contain some form of mineral oil. I am afraid I do not know the equivalent in the USA but in the UK there is BP Ultimate, which makes similar claims - but motorists pay an extra 8 or 9 pence a litre to buy this grade of fuel. Ethos FR works out to be 1 to 2 pence a litre for motorists. In other words, the oil companies do have similar products but any saving goes to the poor impoverished oil companies. At least with Ethos FR the punter gets the benefit.

But the difference between you and I is that I have actually used it and get the benefit of savings and carbon footprint reduction. Perhaps if you were open minded enough to use the product and voice an opinion from experience - and not from ignorance - this would be a more productive discussion.

I remain a proud user and licence holder of Ethos FR because it works.

MetroMPG 09-26-2008 10:06 AM

ecossebloke: there are prescribed test procedures that the US EPA publishes for companies wishing to promote fuel-saving additives/gadgets. These tests are the "gold standard" (in the US, anyway - I realize you're not). They will even assist those companies with testing whose products appear to perform well in the "preliminary" steps.

To my knowledge, Ethos has not submitted to these rigorous tests, and instead relies on low-quality testimonials and on-road "results" of non-scientific evaluations.

In light of this, I will remain highly skeptical, and even moreso when the product's benefits are pitched by a seller.

If the product is as good as claimed, why wouldn't there be some attempt to gain the EPA "seal of approval" to market them in the US, where there would be massive demand for any product with that status?

ecossebloke 09-26-2008 10:33 AM

Thank you for your measured reply
 
I appreciate that there are differences in how products are assessed and I also appreciate that up until a few months ago the Ethos FR people in the USA were obsessed with networking marketing. Whilst MLM is still part of the business model, the changes that have taken place have now opened them up to exactly the market I am seeking to develop in the UK - hence the developing local government customers like the 3 in Miami. I am pretty sure that they are just 3 of many more American councils to come.

I am aware, from my recent visit to Miami, that there are 2 technical reports being completed that should be available in the next 2 or 3 weeks, which I will be using to secure the funding to carry out UK based external evaluations.

For my part, I have been in discussion with an organisation called the Scottish Environment Technology Network (based within Edinburgh University) to develop this sort of external technical evaluation. I have also been in communication with the Fuel Task Force set up by the Scottish Government to try address the impact of huge fuel price rises in the Scottish fishing industry. I am advised that a mechanism for trialling and assessing products of this sort can now be applied for, as part of the wider European Union structural funding mechanisms.

I have also been advised by some of the local government and private sector people I have been talking to, to utilise the MIRA Labratory in the UK to be able to expose Ethos FR to the very sort of scrutiny you suggest. I have no fear as I do know that the product works.

The key thing for me at the moment is that these more scientific tests cost money and so my continued work with councils, government politicians and businesses I am currently working with will need to form the evidence to open up these funds. These tests are not cheap.

I note with some interest, from my recent visit, that 30 MPG seems to be hailed as a very good level of fuel economy for a basic saloon car in the USA. Over here, we see 50-60MPG for an estate car as a good level of economy. There is clearly a difference in culture.

However, I know from 18 months of using Ethos FR that it does exactly what it says it does on the bottle. I cannot vouch, of course, for every website or the extent to which others may have sought to emphasise certain aspects of the benefits of the product. I always work on a modest expectation of just 10% of a saving with my own customers - most of whom exceed that level to some degree.

I am genuinely trying to be helpful by adding my contribution into this discussion. perhaps if one of those who are sceptical would use the product in accordance with the instructions there would be a good basis to assess the value of the product.

Tony Raine 09-26-2008 12:06 PM

First off, i'm glad you are a real person, not a spam bot that spits out programmed responses resulting from google searches for their product. Sorry for assuming, but it happens a lot.


That being said, my scenario above still applies. Oil companies know the average American is incredibly wasteful. A product like this would drive UP oil consumption in the US considerably, just because people would start driving all over the place, all the time, in gas guzzlers, because they can "afford" it.

Also, the amazing amount of obvious lies on the Ethos website makes me incredibly hesitant to drop some "mystery miracle" concoction into my gas tank. Although if I had $65 laying around to experiment with, I might be tempted. Yes, I did my homework. I started this with an open mind, like anything else. But I can read between the lines, My verdict is still the same.

Until I see an official EPA test for a gasoline engine.............

ecossebloke 09-26-2008 12:43 PM

Apology accepted of course
 
I do appreciate that the internet does offer some very annoying automated activities and of course I appreciate your apology with no hard feelings.

I think that you will find with the changes made a few months ago in the manaufacturing company, Ethos Environmental, and the distribution company, For Earth Inc, that there will be a more technical and business like approach to developing Ethos FR. There are 2 technical reports due in October, for example, and For Earth Inc are very supportive of the work I am doing in the UK - including the move toward a recognised external technical evaluation against the various European Union regulations, Ad Blue and other processes.

I am not sure what the 'lies' relate to but I can assure you that I do use this product, I do get a consistent 15% saving, I do have a much lower carbon footprint from lower engine emissions and I am developing a business that can make a very positive impact here - that is not a network marketing activity.

I am not sure that I would, however, go along with the scenario that you paint. I am sure that you appreciate the American culture better than I, however, so I would not like to comment. All I know is that over here there are heavy carbon reduction targets and a real drive to offset rising oil prices. Ethos FR can make a difference here and once established will become a watchword for good environmental management in relation to transport.

Please keep an open mind and keep a look out for more progress in the US and the UK.

some_other_dave 09-26-2008 01:11 PM

I, for one, would love to see the results of a proper set of testing for the product. So far, it appears as if the manufacturer has refrained from any rigorous testing whatsoever--instead, relying on anecdotal evidence and one very uncontrolled test that I have read about.

The way that they claim the product works is an out and out impossibility. If 20% of the fuel going into the engine actually did go out the tailpipe, you could hold a match up to it and shoot flames out the back. So if it indeed works (and that's still a very very big "if" in my mind), it would have to work a different way than they claim.

I'm curious if your driving style changed in any way whatsoever when you started using the Ethos product? I have been able to boost my fuel economy by over 30% just by changing the way I drive. A 15% boost from a change in driving style is very possible--even if the changes are unconscious...

-soD

bikin' Ed 09-26-2008 01:19 PM

Fyi
 
[
The way that they claim the product works is an out and out impossibility. If 20% of the fuel going into the engine actually did go out the tailpipe, you could hold a match up to it and shoot flames out the back.

Hey Dave, If you put a working spart plug in your tailpipe it will flame.

MetroMPG 09-26-2008 01:19 PM

I wish you success with independent, valid testing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecossebloke (Post 63597)
perhaps if one of those who are sceptical would use the product in accordance with the instructions there would be a good basis to assess the value of the product.

With that approach, we would just be generating more non-scientific "results".

Fuel additives are notoriously difficult to evaluate in real world driving because the driver cannot measure/compare immediate A-B-A states under identical conditions; a lab is the only place the testing of additives should occur if your goal is reputable data.

dcb 09-26-2008 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG (Post 55666)
Yes, those are just the Google Ads. Some of them are pretty terrible in terms of peddling junk and scams. It's practically a full time job trying to stay on top of them and add them to our filter because as soon as you kill one, 2 more pop up. Breed like rabbits.

And I'd like to remind everyone that you can support ecomodder directly and get rid of those pesky ads :)

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...bonus-180.html

rmay635703 09-26-2008 04:36 PM

I tried ethos and it did absolutely nothing. I am one of the less sceptacle that will try something once or twice mind you if its cheap or free.

The only additives I've ever found to affect my mileage are

1. Mystery Oil
2. Acetone

Mystery oil (especially the kind that isn't approved) has always had an immediate and noticeable effect, especially in my old junkers and diesels. And obviously my mileage goes up a couple MPG.


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