Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 


Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-04-2012, 03:22 PM   #1 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 7,137

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 124.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 165
Thanked 2,116 Times in 1,629 Posts
Fast warm up ideas: 3500w engine warmer

With picture and yes I still have it, but its no longer in use, hanging up in the garage.
2400 Watt block heater. - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums

__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 11-04-2012, 05:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 2,643
Thanks: 1,503
Thanked 276 Times in 226 Posts
The thread is 6 years old and closed. Must not of been the topic of conversation?

Cant say that was the first time I thought about using a hot water heater element then running off 220. Ive used a hot water heater element as a load for my phev kit.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 08:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 7,137

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 124.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 165
Thanked 2,116 Times in 1,629 Posts
To the old school diesel world a 650 watt heater is enough, two 650 watt heaters like I have is crazy, anything more than that is totally insane.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 09:57 AM   #4 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 2,643
Thanks: 1,503
Thanked 276 Times in 226 Posts
Did you see any benefit of 220 over 110?

Did you see any benefits or savings gong big like that over the standard size?

My experience with the oem 400 watt honda block heater is 2 hours gets the coolant up to about 110 degrees or so. Any less and its under 100 degrees, after 8 hours you get to about 130 degrees, so 2 hours became my and a few other users standard.

No noticeable improvements in mpg, but its nice to have heat withing 2 miles of driving.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 06:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 7,137

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 124.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 165
Thanked 2,116 Times in 1,629 Posts
Giving that hot water heater element 110v would have cut the wattage down to less than 1000 watts if I remember correctly.
I never tested it for fuel economy improvement.
It was nice to be able to start deiceing the car almost instantly.

I think I may need to revisit this mod now that I run an electric coolant pump.
I could do the 3500w coolant heater plus the two 650w for a total of 4800w, and yes I can supply that much power no problem.
That should cut down warm up times a little.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 01:27 PM   #6 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 2,643
Thanks: 1,503
Thanked 276 Times in 226 Posts
I dont know, 4800 watts isnt that much when you think about it. Also what about the battery and fuel? My uncles golf diesel had a battery heater, an engine wrap heaterm oil pan heater, just to name a few.

Oh yeah, VA Power has you covered if you need MORE POWER. I checked with them when I rented a Leaf from Enterprise about a level 3 charger as our braker box couldnt handle it. THey said they could pull a new line and give me what ever I want and a meter to boot.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2013, 06:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 7,137

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 124.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 165
Thanked 2,116 Times in 1,629 Posts
I located my 3500w block heater and mounted it on the firewall of my suburban (so it cant get lost again).
I obviously have removed the 220v plug and not plumbed coolant into it, I am not going to worry about adding it into the cooling system or wiring it up till later on this year when it starts to cool off.



The coolant will flow out of the 3500w heater and into the heater core if I need to defrost and provide instant heat, if I don't need to defrost then I just leave the heater off and all that heat flows into the block.
I have an electric coolant pump so I can run the 3500w warmer and defrost with out running the engine.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	3500wHeater.JPG
Views:	1194
Size:	86.2 KB
ID:	13521  
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to oil pan 4 For This Useful Post:
mikeyjd (06-15-2014)
Old 11-05-2013, 12:52 PM   #8 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 7,137

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 124.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 165
Thanked 2,116 Times in 1,629 Posts
I plumbed in the heater and will wire it up soon.

I will be sure to post up some test results.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to oil pan 4 For This Useful Post:
mikeyjd (06-15-2014), PaleMelanesian (11-05-2013)
Old 12-13-2013, 11:25 AM   #9 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 7,137

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 124.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 165
Thanked 2,116 Times in 1,629 Posts
I swapped out the 3500 for a 2400w heater.
And tested it.
I powered up my 220v coolant heater and it works perfectly.
It sizzles as its working and heats the coolant 12'F as is circulates.

One of the tests I did was leaving a single 600w block heater on and then using the coolant heater with the coolant pump on. With the coolant circulating and the 220v heater on the temperature of the block appeared to go down a little.
I was using the passanger side block heater, and the temperature sender is on the drivers side.
I believe this was due to more evenly heating the block.

I am going to do another test today, seeing how long it takes to go from around freezing to 20'C the minimum recommended cranking temperature according to MAN diesel.

Starting temperature was -2'C (28'F) at 0900.
I would say the initial results are encouraging, already +1'C in 5 minutes that's an increase of 3 degrees C in 5 minutes.

5 minutes later, 13'C. Or increase of 16'C in 10 minutes

5 minutes after that, it reached the desired 22'C (68'F).

-2'C to 22'C in 15 minutes with out running the engine, not bad. Oh and this is with out the engine running, since I have an electric coolant pump.

Final test will conclude with a 20 minute measurement, because I am can.
Reading was 27'C after 20 minutes.
That's fast enough, for now....

I used both my 220 volt extension cords for this test to get power to the suburban. The 40 amp continuous 4/12ga with 10ga neutral and 30amp my 3/10ga cord, to reach 40 some feet.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.

Last edited by oil pan 4; 12-13-2013 at 11:38 AM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to oil pan 4 For This Useful Post:
mikeyjd (06-15-2014), pgfpro (12-17-2013)
Old 03-11-2014, 08:52 PM   #10 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 126

Black Beast - '02 VW Goff Estate S
Thanks: 27
Thanked 51 Times in 31 Posts
2kw coolant heater with electric pump

Interesting thread.

I installed a 2kw 240v coolant heater a week ago. It came with a little electric circulating pump and has a thermostat which switches off at 88 degrees C (190F) and on again at 78 C (172F).

It's certainly nice to start off with a fully warmed engine up at normal operating temperature, although as soon as I drive off the coolant temperature drops by 10 degrees C, presumably as the oil/coolant heat exchanger (aka 'oil cooler') does its job and equalises the temperature of the oil and the coolant.

However, from the point of view of fuel efficiency my feeling is that anything over 50 degrees C (120F) is good enough, and anything over 50 C uses far more electricity. At an ambient 10 degrees C it takes 20 minutes to rise 40 degrees up to 50 C and another 50 minutes to rise a further 38 degrees to 88 C. Even in the summer, startingthe engine at 50 C rather than 20 C should make a significant difference to fuel efficiency in the first few miles.

From the running cost point of view then the more powerful the heater the less it will cost to get to any given temperature (less cooling). I kind of wish now that my heater had an adjustable thermostat. The ideal I think would be a powerful heater with circulating pump and a 60 degree C thermostat. Such things are available, but I have what I have and I'm happy with it. I'm using it every day now and the fuel saving is noticeable. Can't give it a definite number as yet but it's in the order of a 15% saving over the first five miles. My drive into town is about five miles and I'm getting at least 15% better mpg on that run in the morning now. Much of that saving, I believe, is down to no longer having to manouver off my driveway with a stone cold engine, with all that reversing and so on.

My car is a 2002 VW Golf 1.9TDi.

I also installed an on-board battery charger and disconnected my alternator about a month ago, and that saves a clear 10% on fuel overall, and that is a far more cost-effective mod in my opinion. The coolant pre-heater I installed partly for improved mpg but also to save me time on cold mornings (scraping ice and de-misting windows). Also to reduce pollution. No more idling on the driveway, poisoning the neighbours' children. Also I believe it contributes to safety as I am never again going to drive off late for work with partially misted up windows.

The only problem with a more powerful heater is that it is easy to leave it on and forget it. If I am delayed in leaving the house for example. Once up to temperature the heater tends to only be on for 30 to 50% of the time though, so it's not too bad.

I've heard about this business of storing warm coolant, so the engine will heat up quicker after being stood in the cold during the day. It's a nice idea, but perhaps just as effective and easier to implement would be to simply insulate the oil sump (oil pan). The hot oil drops down there while parked up, so why not keep it hot a bit longer with some insulation? The oil is never going to overheat because it's cooled via the oil/coolant heat exchanger anyway.

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to paulgato For This Useful Post:
mikeyjd (06-15-2014)
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com