Fast warm up ideas: Double engine block heaters
 

This one is easy.
Install a second stock engine block heater or find your vehicles stock heater, get 2 of them and install.

What does that do?
You might think it wastes double the power.
It actually saves power. Instead of leaving the standard single 600 watt heater plugged in all night I have found that you really only need about two hours with double block heaters to reach close to the same level of heat you get running a single block heater all night.

As in, two of the ones that screw in to the block and heat up the coolant? I could see that working nicely.

I just got one of those 50W stick-on pads to see if applying a little heat to the oil helps out any. (The car already has a block heater.) If it doesn't, I'm only out $20. :)

Depending on what engine you have, they may be screw in or freeze plug type.
I have my 8L big block Chevy on an engine stand about to put freeze plug heaters in.
If I can make the pictures small enough on my phone to post on here I will.

Look for a post soon for an immersion oil sump heater using a 1,200 watt hot water heater element.

Pretty common up north to have two block heaters and plug in battery blankets. Good idea, fire trucks also have thermostatic switches on their block heaters since they are plugged in 24/7.

I have a 1/2npt hole in the aluminum cylinder heads I would love to be able to plug thst hole with a temperature switch and use that to cut the block heater off above say around 100°F. Put one in each head to control each heater and I would be all set.

Amp draw versus heaters is my usual (and not well researched) question. Coolant and engine oil. Then battery blankets.

My plan: I got a yard light timer that is rated for 1875 watts resistive, and has a water resistant housing.
I just got the cord for my truck (yay!), and what I would do is add an oil pan pad, while keeping the load under 1500 watts or so total.
Then I would figure out a proper amount of time through trial and error. Set the timer, plug in and go to bed.

Zerostart makes thermostats and y-cords.

That won't do for me. I see no point in keeping an uninsulated cast iron 950 pound mass at a constant temperature all night, so the timer is still a part of my equation.

This is what they look like:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1483296816

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1483297517

The engine block heaters on most engines look like this.

similar to the stock engine heater in my cummins.

how about having a heater coil inside the oil pan, on the bottom to directly heat the oil?

Not something I would do, as it is really a PITA to pull and install the pan.Those pads glue on in minutes and peel right off if they fail.

Fingie that is what oilpan ment by:
If I remember correctly his plan is to run the 1200w size element @200-600w to keep the surface of the element from getting hot enough to boil/vaporize the oil leaving the solids on the element AKA coking.
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Well I looked for the write up . I didn't fid it . OilPan did you pull it . Im referring to the one were you had pic.s of the 1" stainless ntp bung welded to an oil pan....

This one? http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ter-33500.html

I'm interested in "the rest of the story", too. :thumbup:

Yes thats it. I was using the wrong search turm. Thank you ThermionicScott.

My 8L engine is on the stand right now, that's why I am working on the block heaters and oil sump heaters.

Love the idea Oil Pan. Love most of your fast warm up ideas though haha. I have a short commute, so this kind of stuff is very important for me. 300W block heaters are okay, but more is definitely better in this area. The 1000W Cats heater on my Metro was perfect, and I'm looking forward to installing it on the Insight.

I will put the cord in my heater and run it on the Kill-a-watt to see what it pulls. Great discussion!
Do you have a link for the stick on pads that you have used?

I would consider leaving 600 watt block heater pugged in all night only when it's really cold outside (-20 °F or colder). Usually 1-2 hours is enough for a normal I4-engine. A huge V8 might need more time.

I would rather have 600 watt block heater working together with a 200-300 watt oil heater. Oil heater heats the oil much faster than any block heater.

A contact heater on the outer surface of the oil pan is much more convenient solution. Both of them heat the oil fast but a contact heater requires less head-scratching.

If you put a heating element inside the oil pan, the you need to have a lot of heating surface. More than 2.4 W/cm² for the surface of a heating element could have adverse effects on the quality of the oil. If the surface is too hot, the oil will oxidase. Most engines have a compact oil sump which doesn't offer too much space for a heating element. Another head-scratching moment is to make a hole for the heating element thought the oil pan.

Contact heater is much less work. It spreads the heat over the oil pan and there are no problems with local hot spots which could damage the oil.

It very rarely gets to -20°F, but when it does get below 0°F I will usually leave one plugged in after I go to bed.

This is a big block Chevy engine not much is compact.
Cutting a hole and welding the heater in is the easy part for me.

Does anyone know if these stick on heater are effective?
Has anyone put a flir or pyrometer on an oil sump with one of these sticky heaters.
I just doubt their effectiveness.

going to investigate a block heater like this for our beetles.
Engine Block Freeze Plug Heater - Kats 10416 - 38mm Diameter 400 Watts | eBay
Darn freeze plugs are on the backside, so it is a lift job.
EDIT: apparently I don't have any soft plugs to remove. I am stuck with a $100+ tank heater or just glue on a pad and live with some oil heating.

Christmas week it dropped to -23°f . I was not home so I did not have access to a plug . This resulted in a NO START could bearly turn over at first ,then not at all. I had a 1week old battery, 1month old altnator anf external regulator, 1.5 year old starter. The only part of the system that remains 26years old is the wiring. 3 days later it warmed to a high of +23°f and she fired up no sweat (without a jump or change), but smokey.

Thx.

Though I have access to 30 and 50A I'd like to have "test" data. Thx

Block heaters draw what they are rated for + or - about 1%.
They are not like other electronics where have a TV for example, it will have a name plate rating of 3 amps but never draws more than 2 amps.
Nope heating elements like this draw what they are rated for.

ALL NIGHT? 😜

Isn't two hours enough with one heater???

That's the typical way people use them.
I leave it plugged in all night, to an outlet on a switch that I turn on when I think it's time, 15 minutes to 2 or 3 hours before start time.
Most people don't have their block heater on an inside switch.

Inside switch is best or if one has a consistent schedule those little indoor/outdoor timers are cheap and effective.

Metro did a block heater test. I use as a rule of thumb that one hour on won't achieve maximum temperature gain but it is almost there and quite enough to be helpful; more than two hours on doesn't achieve much of anything but heating the great outdoors and running up the electricity bill.

That's my deal, I will run a timer to avoid wasting KWH. If an hour does it I am typically up an hour before departure, so just switching it on will do it for me. I think the truck is going to be a 2 hour minimum, with a 5 gallon coolant capacity and 950 pounds of engine iron.

90-minutes is what AH64ID claims is minimally effective next door to you in Idaho. Even in Texas it's close. Two hours is better.

You use a block heater in Texas?

It was almost -10°F in the texas panhandle this past weekend.

For the diesel snow plow trucks here in the Northeast a circulating block heater seems to work best.

It was cold enough here last week that the wind shield was frosting up going down the highway, with all the heat going to the defroster vents.
I may get one of those portable 10,000btu/hr IR heaters to put next to me.

I use one in north central Oklahoma; it's nice turning the key and seeing the temp needle jump up. Moves slightly less the colder it is outside, but moves nonetheless.

I get into closed loop slightly faster (better economy/lower pollution) and I get the windshield cleared (and get cabin heat) quite a lot faster. It makes my drive to work more efficient, more comfortable, and potentially safer (the windows are easier to clear), and I don't have to get out to the car extra early to mess with it before heading to work.

Does it actually pay for the energy use in fuel savings? I have no idea, since I've not attempted to measure. But the comfort and convenience is worth it.

All you have to do is hit one thing and it will wipe out any savings people think they are getting from cold cranking and hitting the road with iced up windows.

Definitely. You see those people that clear out a tiny square in the windshield and then tear off down the road. It's too cold, you see, to stand out there and do the whole thing-- and they haven't got the TIME to sit there waiting for the engine to warm up and let the defrosters do it for them, so there they go, to heck with everyone else.

Good thing the block heater has made my windows clear off with minimal effort before I leave the driveway, so I can better see and avoid them.

Thoughts...

Toyota engineers have given us a clue as to what's important with their thermos reservoir for the heated coolant in Pri models.


If you are warming just the oil (in the pan at the bottom separated from the engine by a gasket) then the engine is not pre-heating, and after a pump through the engine, the heat is extracted and it's not likely enough. There is more coolant and it's job is to transfer heat, and it runs through all the engine.

There are lots of failure and maintenance issues with an in-pan element. If you are going to only heat the oil, it is likely best but only if you time it properly. Leaving it on overnight will experience the same losses as just using an outside stick on pan heater.