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RH77 01-15-2008 08:38 PM

Federal Government Considering Fuel Tax Increase
 
I heard on NPR this morning that the Federal Government is considering a fuel-tax increase, that would take effect over the next few years and effectively add 40-cents to the exisiting tax issued.

This is on the heels of the latest report of the Minneapolis bridge collapse: our infrastructure is aging, is in trouble, and needs funding to repair, upgrade, or rebuild. With this I agree -- we have a huge transportation system that needs cash to stay "up-to-speed" -- but where should the money come from?

I've added a poll to get your thoughts on the subject (everyone loves polls, right? I know I do...)

My commentary. I strongly oppose the tax because it unfairly taxes everyone, regardless of income. The rationale is that it will cut back on frivolous driving while gaining valuable income for the Federal repair initiative. I think it's going hit America in the wallet, and further drive our economy into a state of distrust. Consumer confidence is running low, Diesel prices are way up -- meaning the truck owner/company that transports (well, basically nearly all products we buy) is either raising transport costs, or eating it to survive. For truckers who own/operate their rigs, this is a huge hit.

Let's see -- who has the money? Oh yeah, the Oil Companies! Let's kick the special interests in the bum and make the oil companies make up the difference. As we learned in the late 19th/early 20th Centuries, anti-trust laws protected consumers and kept the power of large corporations at bay. Let's bring that back.

It's election time folks. Contact your Congressional Reps -- both State and Federal. They tend to listen during this time.

In the essence of Democracy, cast your vote for the solution. If you're familiar with my previous polls in other locales, if you vote "I dunno", I ask that you offer-up a another option.

RH77

SVOboy 01-15-2008 08:49 PM

Yay for taxes, :)

WaxyChicken 01-15-2008 09:07 PM

Only Hummers use more gas than me but i say GO FOR IT.
I would love nothing more than to see big oil go belly up. So i hope it's a huge tax. like $10,000/Gal.

but then, that's just me.
AND close the damn oil tax loops they were granted.

SVOboy 01-15-2008 09:11 PM

Indeed, I would vote really for some combination of the first two. Certainly, raising gas taxes is the only was that consumers will make a direct connection between fuel use and cost (resulting in lower use), but I also believe a nice nationalized oil company would be a good thing. If oil it going to result in billions of dollars of revenue, better to have to going into environmental or infrastuctural programs than into someone's private jet or prostitute account.

WaxyChicken 01-15-2008 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVOboy (Post 5583)
... or prostitute account.

http://forum.kbtu.kz/style_emoticons.../2_roflmao.gif

Who 01-15-2008 09:30 PM

How about all of the states do it instead? It kind of keeps truer to the whole union thing your founding fathers had in mind.

DifferentPointofView 01-15-2008 10:13 PM

Well, time to move out of the trailer and into the Jeep. If gas goes up 40 cents, and continues climbing, I'm leaving the US and living out of my Jeep. That way when our next president accidentally kills us all, I'll be nowhere to be found.

I say, let those damn oil companies pay for it. Your taking enough of my money as it is, and if you wanna take me down and swim in money, I'm taking you all with me!

It wouldn't be so bad if they had to pay 35 cents and me 5. but freaking 40 cents!? 23 gallons times 40.9 cents= about $9.41 more per tank than I'm already paying every 2 weeks!! on top of about $70 a tank to almost 80 is almost 250 more dollars a year! And they will still rake in the cash.

Well there's my view. whew, that felt good. :o

JerkOfAllTrades 01-16-2008 01:04 AM

I have to vote no.
After all it costs me $40 to fill my tank now, and I own a Honda!

Peakster 01-16-2008 01:33 AM

The United States' Interstate highway system (in my opinion) has been so highly subsidized that I'm completely uncertain as to whether its maintenance is sustainable in the long run. Making a 40 cent tax will just cause people to drive less, or choose a more fuel efficient car. Both of those outcomes are good for fuel consumption, but they do nothing for the sole purpose of maintaining roads that need maintenance whether 10,000 Geo Metros or 10,000 Lincoln Town Cars use it.

I believe certain provinces in Canada will come up with the same financial problem.

cfg83 01-16-2008 01:46 AM

Hello -

I voted yes because the infrastructure collapse is 20 years in the making. In my opinion, the only reason the Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, and Nissan Versa are being sold in the USA is because of higher gas prices.

It's sad to say, but I think Americans won't make the switch to high MPG cars without high gas prices, :( .

CarloSW2

trebuchet03 01-16-2008 02:13 AM

Quote:

Let's see -- who has the money? Oh yeah, the Oil Companies! Let's kick the special interests in the bum and make the oil companies make up the difference.
I guarantee that anything they have to pay translates into what we're going to pay (and likely more to get back on the %tage profit).

On the subject of Anti-Trust laws.... It appears, at least on the surface, that our economy is too big for that to work properly... AT&T, for example.... the 7 or 8 RBOC (Baby Bells) spawned from the AT&T break up are being gobbled up by guess who? AT&T

CLICK THIS

Holy Crap <-- image is way to huge to view in post

Guess which one of the three is the biggest... Now guess which one is hardwired to eavesdrop on their digital network (phone, internet, etc.)? Funny thing is, the military advocated to keep ATT together during the antitrust trial (I wonders why :p)

------
I voted yes. Why? Because effectively, we've already taxed the oil companies by removing subsidies Link and we did see an increase in fuel prices not proportionate to the increasing cost of crude... But that money went to alternative fuels AFAIK.

I would also vote for a raise on foreign oil imports (still, that translates into higher prices at the pump)...

40 cents increases my fill ups (usually 13 gallons) by $5.20... But really, I shouldn't be rationalizing it that way :p

Quote:

If gas goes up 40 cents, and continues climbing, I'm leaving the US and living out of my Jeep.
Out of curiosity... Where would you go? Even with a 40 cent increase - we'd still have the lowest fuel prices of first world oil importing countries. I think Venezuela is the closest country with less fuel prices (I personally wouldn't want to live there though :/)...

Gone4 01-16-2008 09:33 AM

I like the idea of driving prices up in the sense that it will take higher fuel prices to change anything. I worry about industry not adapting and just passing higher prices on to consumers instead of adopting more efficient methods. Food is already suffering greatly - from many factors - and it is getting really expensive to eat now. There will be a fine line between adopting forcing new methods and technologies through prices and forcing people into suffering, or malnutrition and freezing without heating.

Trains + bicycles >> cars; but that's just my two cents.

Lazarus 01-16-2008 10:12 AM

Can anyone tell how much of the current tax goes to infrastructure and road repair now. Seem to me must goes to pork. If we don't send the money where it need to go then there will never be enough.

metroschultz 01-16-2008 11:56 AM

Peak Oil is here and We are the Forefront of the future.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil
I voted yes, many of you said it, I'm repeating it. People won't drive more economically 'till you hit them in the wallet.
I don't want to force anything down any body's throat.
However if you look at Countries across the water where fuel is upwards of $5 per gallon. You see that they drove fuel prices up with heavy tax and Intelligently used the money for Infrastructure.
This is where we need to head if there is going to be any fuel left for my Grandkids. Eventually we will all be using some form of re-newable energy. I wish to be alive when that happens.
During the Gas Crisis of the 70's only 1 country in the world made a significant effort to become energy independent. Brazil. IIRC they now have in place a system to use totally re-newable sources and their cars are required to be able to run on 85% ethanol. Which they produce in-country.
Time to get off my soap box. S.

trebuchet03 01-16-2008 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenKreton (Post 5680)
I like the idea of driving prices up in the sense that it will take higher fuel prices to change anything. I worry about industry not adapting and just passing higher prices on to consumers instead of adopting more efficient methods. Food is already suffering greatly - from many factors - and it is getting really expensive to eat now. There will be a fine line between adopting forcing new methods and technologies through prices and forcing people into suffering, or malnutrition and freezing without heating.

Trains + bicycles >> cars; but that's just my two cents.

When food is valuable enough (monetarily), we should see a drop in consumer food waste. I agree that the line is fine - but we're far from that line at the moment...

Similar to price gouging (for slightly different reasons) - a lot of people hate it, but it serves an important economic purpose by ensuring those that need get by preventing those that are first in line from taking excess.

trebuchet03 01-16-2008 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metroschultz (Post 5695)
During the Gas Crisis of the 70's only 1 country in the world made a significant effort to become energy independent. Brazil. IIRC they now have in place a system to use totally re-newable sources and their cars are required to be able to run on 85% ethanol. Which they produce in-country.
Time to get off my soap box. S.

Most of the fuel available is E20 - with E85 available in some areas... Some of the cars today can even run on E100....

Gone4 01-16-2008 02:41 PM

"gallon of fuel moves a ton of freight 60 miles by truck, 390 miles by rail, and 530 miles by ship"

I read this today and I am not sure how true it is but it really shows that one of the best things we can do is move distance travel and shipping back to rails. I'd like to see gas taxed to get rail systems running in the US.

trebuchet03 01-16-2008 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenKreton (Post 5709)
"gallon of fuel moves a ton of freight 60 miles by truck, 390 miles by rail, and 530 miles by ship"

I read this today and I am not sure how true it is but it really shows that one of the best things we can do is move distance travel and shipping back to rails. I'd like to see gas taxed to get rail systems running in the US.

That's because mpg isn't the best metric for comparison ;) The truck may get 10mpg, but is hauling 40 short tons of cargo...

DifferentPointofView 01-16-2008 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trebuchet03 (Post 5669)
Out of curiosity... Where would you go? Even with a 40 cent increase - we'd still have the lowest fuel prices of first world oil importing countries. I think Venezuela is the closest country with less fuel prices (I personally wouldn't want to live there though :/)...

Canada lol. It seems they care more about their people than they do their money. I see tax dollars being sent from paychecks to the government everyday, but I still haven't seen any of my roads being paved, or more job opportunity, or my street lights to be fixed while they've been broken since the 20th century. But I see more money going into the military. Kinda makes me mad. I feel the worst for the truck drivers. If gas goes up, shipping goes up, and so does everything that has to be shipped.

I'd take the train if there was one within 100 miles! POS part of the country. When Some Actual Job opportunity comes in town I'm gonna buy a geo or crx and drive it everyday, but right now I'm stuck with a Jeep as a daily driver. I'd like to drive my Jeep for recreation, or when we all have to evacuate from some sort of natural disaster... or a zombie infestation :D"

Hmmm... Evacuation vehicle...

Geo.. or Jeep with ramming devices... I'll go for the one with ramming devices.. :D

I've looked for a geo around here. I can't seem to find one. Anyone know where to look?

trebuchet03 01-16-2008 08:49 PM

Quote:

Canada lol. It seems they care more about their people than they do their money. I see tax dollars being sent from paychecks to the government everyday, but I still haven't seen any of my roads being paved, or more job opportunity, or my street lights to be fixed while they've been broken since the 20th century.
Gotcha - I was thinking it was because of the gas price itself which, in my opinion, is totally crazy :p

Other than the job opportunity thing - those things are a state level deal... For all of Florida's problems, I'm quite content with the road quality and maintenance... I don't think that's necessarily enough to keep me here - just say'in :p

On my cross country trip - I think it was Louisiana that had the worst road quality IMO.

WaxyChicken 01-16-2008 09:12 PM

Was Louisiana the one where the interstate is divided perpendicular to the direction of the driving cars? (65mph speed limit and the highway was shaped like a wrinkled blanket!)

Been there, hated that. (drove from SCarolina to AZ)

DifferentPointofView 01-16-2008 09:20 PM

Quote:

Other than the job opportunity thing - those things are a state level deal... For all of Florida's problems, I'm quite content with the road quality and maintenance... I don't think that's necessarily enough to keep me here - just say'in :p

On my cross country trip - I think it was Louisiana that had the worst road quality IMO.
In my town, we pave everything with rocks. tar, rocks, tar then rocks again. How cheap are they!? and the potholes on the COBBLESTONE just on the way to school cause most vehicles to either pop tires or scrap bumpers.

It's not just on gas really though. Oh, I found a 91' geo 5 miles from here! New tires, and New timing belt! ... but there is a teensy problem with it (if you call it smoking until it's warmed up a problem :rolleyes:)

SVOboy 01-16-2008 09:22 PM

But they geo anyone, that sounds fixable!

DifferentPointofView 01-16-2008 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVOboy (Post 5793)
But they geo anyone, that sounds fixable!

I didn't quite get the but they geo anyone part. I also found a crx, but its far away, and has no motor or trans.

Silveredwings 01-16-2008 09:27 PM

I say bring it on. :thumbup:

SVOboy 01-16-2008 09:39 PM

Buy the geo anyway! That's what happens when you answer posts in english while reading stories in another langauge.

DifferentPointofView 01-16-2008 10:14 PM

I would but.. :( no cash... and not money to pay for insurance. But man if i did have the cash! how low do you think I could buy it for? They're asking $650 and I haven't seen it yet, but I might drive by to take a look at it.

SVOboy 01-16-2008 10:15 PM

300!

DifferentPointofView 01-16-2008 10:23 PM

Alright. I can always bring up the thing catching on fire while I'm driving it, and consider the sad shape of it if it smokes while running.

DifferentPointofView 01-16-2008 10:30 PM

I wonder how much insurance would cost.... more than the car? :p I gotta pay for everything if I buy this one. Mom's paying for the Jeep's insurance, but if I get this, I gotta pay all expenses. My friend bought a 95' ford escort for 400, and got mad because his insurance was like 455 semi-annual.

dremd 01-22-2008 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaxyChicken (Post 5787)
Was Louisiana the one where the interstate is divided perpendicular to the direction of the driving cars? (65mph speed limit and the highway was shaped like a wrinkled blanket!)

Been there, hated that. (drove from SCarolina to AZ)

That could have been us. Mostly on 10 it is un-even expansion joints. So you get a ramp then drop off effect. We do have some roads like that thou, Mississippi near Jackson would qualify as well.

I talk to many people (nearly daily) who purchase SUV's because they ride better on our roads (true) than cars. What gets me is the Speed lumps that are SUV sized and I can't clear at over 3mph in the golf (with a 20mph sign).

LUVMY02CREW 01-22-2008 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus (Post 5682)
Can anyone tell how much of the current tax goes to infrastructure and road repair now. Seem to me must goes to pork. If we don't send the money where it need to go then there will never be enough.

Totally agree with that point!!!!!

No longer is the saying..."Pork - the other white meat"
It is now..."Pork - the next bridge to nowhere":rolleyes:


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