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Cleaned up the engine & bay. Pressure washer wouldn't start, so had to do without. Started disconnecting hoses and wiring:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00051-0.jpg Yoink! http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00052-0.jpg De-iced. http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00053-0.jpg That was done in the first few days of having it...then xmas/life got in the way. |
Nice progress. Can we hear a bit more about the parts you've collected and plan to use for the conversion?
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Well, here ya go...here's my motor: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00080-0.jpg |
Parts
Just joking! :D
Here's my main motor: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00078-0.jpg It's an 8" Advanced DC sep-ex, presumably out of some form of electric forklift. Weighs about 120lbs. And here's a possible alternative that I picked up off of Mechman600 a while back at a good price: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00079-0.jpg Which is a 7.25" Prestolite sep-ex traction motor, out of a Schaeff lift truck. Was in Mechman600's Electric Booger for a while. I've got 10KWH worth of LiFePO4 batteries, the only thing I bought new for the project: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00067-0.jpg The only thing I accomplished on the project during the xmas/new-years holidays was the negotiation of a used controller at a good price: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/.../2553_16-0.jpg Otherwise, I've got bits and bobs like contactors, fuses, and what have you, and I'm waiting on a package with a DC-DC converter, breakers, more contactors (guess you can't have too many), and the cooling kit to go with the controller. Still figuring out what I'll be doing about a vacuum pump and a real charger, but I have time for that while I work on the rest. :) |
Testing the controller...
Being paranoid, I couldn't sleep well without knowing if the controller worked or not when it arrived a week or so back, so within a day or two, I was hacking it together to test it out.
First thing I learned, it wouldn't turn on without the interface module plugged in: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00057-0.jpg (Remind me not to loose that thing.) It powered up just fine, which was a great start. :) Of course, it threw error codes about the contactor. So I had to hook one of those up. And I hooked 12v up to the contactor and the controller...but it still threw the code. After trying another contactor, which didn't make a difference, I decided to try 24v to the contactor and controller, and viola! I got the green light. Litterally! :p The interface module showed that I was able to control the output voltage, which I confirmed: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00061-0.jpg http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00063-0.jpg http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00062-0.jpg But I wanted a load, any kind of load. Well, ok, it's a tiny load, but it's a load. In the top left corner: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00054-0.jpg http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00055-0.jpg http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00056-0.jpg That poor little 10-watt, 12-volt bulb somehow survived having 24v across it for a second at a time. Sure, it went super-nova, but hey...it proved that the controller works. :thumbup: So, yeah, the controller was my latest acquisition. It popped up for sale just after I bought my donor car. I'm pleased with my purchase and the price, and it's versatility(Voltage range, amp range) opens up new options, which I appreciate. :) The only thing it doesn't do that I was originally hoping for is regen braking, since I have Sep-Ex motors, but I'll just have to live without. :p |
Very nice!
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It is great to see another Metro conversion in the works. I have converted several Metros and really like this choice of chassis. It was the king of mpg when it was an ICE, and it will be the king of miles per kW as an EV.
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Just don't expect me to have your level of patience and attention to detail! :p Quote:
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Even if you wouldn't get regenerative brakes, a vacuum booster still seems kinda overkill for such a small car. And an electric vacuum pump would be sucking some precious kWh...
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What doesn't seem so easy to find is an affordable vacuum switch, which would make this particular task a lost simpler. |
A bit of progress this morning:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00082-0.jpg Took the exhaust off. Had to cut the muffler off, unfortunately. Oh well. It's still salvageable, if I ever need it. Then I did some hot-wiring: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00081-0.jpg ...putting power straight to the fuel pump. Nice of them to put the relay right under the hood instead of up under the dash or somewhere else annoying! :) I had some 1/4" fuel hose hanging around from another project, so I put it to use. The PO wasn't lying when he said it had a full tank of gas. Filled up the wife's car (was just over half filled), filled up my '95 Metro (also just over half a tank in it before I started), then had to go fetch my 2.5-gallon jerry-can and almost filled that up before it finally started spitting air out. Should be a lot easier to drop the tank now! I'll hopefully get around to that tomorrow morn. Think I've had enough for today. Certainly enough gas fumes! I'll go fetch some engine enamel in what spare time I have left today. Keep plodding along...:turtle: |
Opinions?
Looking for opinions/confirmation on my choice between the two motors. :confused:
My intended use of the car is my 15 km trip to work every day. For a good 5 minutes of said drive, I'm on the highway. Most of it is flat, but, unfortunately, the last 2km is one long hill, which I estimate at a 5 or 6% gradient. I should be pulling between 22 and 26 kw to climb a 6% gradient at 90 to 100km/hr. I'm assuming that thanks to this hill, the 8"/larger motor would be the better choice for this project. On the other hand, Mechman600 was occasionally putting 30kw through the smaller motor, and it doesn't appear to have bothered it much. The body on the 8" is about 3/4" shorter then the 7", and will just barely fit. (And, as it is, the secondary shaft will be sticking out underneath the frame rail. Hopefully it won't be in the way. Not happy about losing the usefulness of said shaft. I could really use the 4 cylinder mounts and cv shafts!). The 7" could possibly be modified to fit better. I should probably stick to the 8" until I come up with a better use for it. Wouldn't be hard to pull it out again... Someone confirm my assumption that I should be using the 8", so I can stop wondering if I'm over-doing it! :p |
The 8" will give you more torque at lower rpms. I'd go with it.
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Assuming 5 speed manual gearbox, if you can climb the hill in 4rth gear (or better yet in 3rd gear) without going overspeed on your motor, the 7 inch will. IMHO, work fine. Of course, the 8 inch is bigger, likely higher torque output, will take longer to heat up, etc. So you have a bit of a safety factor. But the 8 inch is heavier so you have a heavier car .. all things being equal you choose the lowest weight option, right? I don't think you will overheat your 7 inch motor on this trip. I have hauled a trailer with a 48V DC club car (800 lbs with leadies) for a few minutes .. maybe 5? .. with the motor amps at 200+. It was a not-so-quick walk. The motor had NO air cooling since it was turning so slowly. The DC motor is a bit smaller than 7 inches, maybe 6.5 inches, single speed gearbox. The motor was hot to the touch, but you could leave you hand on it without getting a burn. My point is that you will be doing about 180 amps for the hill at 156V for less than 5 minutes .. that should not cook your motor. The club car was not putting out the same power, but it was taking similar amps, which is where you get the heat from :) |
I would go with the 8.
As light as this car is, and as light as a 10kWh pack is, You could probably live without the brake booster. I run with my brake booster vacuum pumps turned off most of the time on my various electric Metros. The booster is nice, but an 8 inch motor and 10kwH pack in a Metro, it is pretty easy to stop with no booster. |
Thanks for the input!
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A bit more progress...
Fuel tank and lines out...
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00083-0.jpg 2 pounds of dirt hiding around the gas filler neck: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00085-0.jpg Free weight savings! Pull that plastic shield off and clean behind there, people! :p Riding a bit high now... http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00084-0.jpg Now to decide what can go in place of said tank. Could probably stuff half my battery pack up under there... :snail: |
I was just trying to picture where you might be putting your pack in this build. On my most recent metro conversion, I put 13 kWh under the hood around and above the motor and transmission. It is nice to keep a 40% rear and 60% front weight distribution on these cars, but it is also nice to have your entire pack in a central location. If a pack is going to be split up because it just won't fit in one spot, this is a good time to split it for weight distribution as well, but a centralized pack will be easier to balance and will probably have less resistance. It might throw the weight distribution off a little, but if you crammed the whole pack under the hood, you could have a much shorter high voltage circuit with less resistance and less weight. You would probably still have to have a charger circuit come in from the rear, but if you are going to use the gas filler door for a charging port, you would have a front to rear cable run either way, AC or DC. Just thinking out loud here...
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http://i1242.photobucket.com/albums/...107_082848.jpg |
I am considering carrying a secondary pack, a lower voltage lead pack, to use mainly as a separate power supply for running the motor's field. It will have the benefit of allowing the main pack to only have to power the armature(lighten the load, extend the range a bit), and act as a backup source to limp home on, should I need it. It might fit under there...
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Goodies arrived:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00086-0.jpg |
Actual progress...Adapter plate work.
Got some real work done this morning. By "real", I mean taking a step to actually making it an EV. Before this, it was just de-ICEing/prepping the car.
Measure motor: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00066-0.jpg (not shown: measure transmission) Plot out hole locations: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00065-0.jpg I'm using 3/4"x12" aluminum flat bar. (Cheaper then plate) A bit of overkill, but it prevents me from having to trim 1/4" off the transmission input shaft. Drill out holes: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00001-0.jpg Realize that your dinky little drill press won't reach in to the middle of the plate, so you won't be using your drill press to drill out the center hole... :mad: Drill out the studs holding your clutch disk together, while you have your drill press out: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00007-0.jpg Done: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00002-0.jpg Set it aside for later consideration. Back to drilling out the adapter plate: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00003-0.jpg ...by hand, since your drill press sucks, with a hole saw in a size bought specifically for the job, since the motor has a lip protruding around the shaft. 45 minutes and two drill battery charges later: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00004-0.jpg Thank gawd that's done. Test fit, make adjustments to compensate for slight bends in studs, and bang it on with a hammer: :p http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00005-0.jpg And, finally, check that it is sitting flush and you didn't waste 45 minutes cutting that hole out for nothing: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00006-0.jpg Success!! :thumbup: That's the first step done... :turtle: |
Woohoo, nice (and funny commentary). Love it. :)
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How did you line up vertical for the hand-drilling with a hole saw?
45 minutes is pretty darned good for drilling that, in my opinion! I have attempted hand drilling with hole saws ... and failed ... with hole saws MUCH smaller that what you are using. Plus the aluminum looks like it was used as a grenade shield (deep gouges when the pilot bit breaks and the hole saw skids across the plate) :( |
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I used a punch (ahem, screwdriver) to leave a tiny indent at the exact points to drill holes, including there. I drilled them out with a small drill (1/8") and then a larger (1/4", same as the pilot drill built in to the hole saw). With the pilot hole already drilled, the pilot drill was just there to keep it centered(and I still managed to break 1/2" off the pilot drill, but it's easily replaced). You want to get the pressure down on it just right, and straight up and down, so it doesn't bite in hard. Being clamped down is pretty much required too, to prevent it grabbing, wandering, or anything else... Besides which, the lip is only 1/8" tall or so, so after the first few millimeters (yes, I measure both in metric and imperial!), it wouldn't matter if I was less then straight. |
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Spare trans: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00048-0.jpg Cleaner: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...fly00049-0.jpg Today: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00008-0.jpg Remember this? http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00002-0.jpg See that inner circle on the spring carrier/flange part? It measures this across: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00010-0.jpg How big is my motor's shaft? http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00011-0.jpg It's about this big: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00009-0.jpg Dang, that was easy to center! :D :turtle: |
Nothing much to show for my efforts(or lack there of) today. What time I spent on it, I spent figuring out how to get the splined female part of the clutch disk/coupler down deep enough so that all of it is in contact with the male trans (wait, what did you just call me?!) input shaft. As shown above, it would barely be in contact with the input shaft.
I've got it figured out, though. Will have to make a run out tomorrow morning to buy another piece to add to the coupler and make it noticeably longer. Also pondering beefing up the almost too short 3/8" studs coming out of the motor. Barely long enough to get nuts on all the way. Doesn't leave anything left for lock washers. Both issues would might have been avoided, if I had settled on 1/2" aluminum instead of 3/4". :( Oh well. It's more work, but everything will be beefier this way... :snail: |
I wouldn't bother with lock washers. Ever find them on an OEM engine? Nope... :) A properly torqued fastener won't come undone, and there are studies that show traditional lock washers don't even work.
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^Agree with that. If you have three threads engaged, that's theoretically max strength. 6 or more is definitely good.
Edit-- looking it up online. They say 1.5x the bolt diameter. |
Zomg! TIG welding is sooooooo much better and easier then anything else I've done! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
(More about that tomorrow) |
Motor hub
Slapped the hub together the last two mornings. And I do mean slapped! :p
My practice welds from yesterday: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00020-0.jpg 2nd from right was my first try. Right was second. 2nd from left was 3rd. and left most was my last try. Didn't take much effort to get decent results. Penetration was just right, in my opinion, leaving the back side of the metal on each pass a bit wrinkles from almost melting... (I'm no welder, but getting as much penetration as you can without blowing through seems the right idea!) Of course, that was on a nice piece of mild steel. Working on the hub was another matter all together. :rolleyes: Here's what I was working with: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00013-0.jpg http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00012-0.jpg That's 2x 1.5" "Weldable X-hubs" with the Geo clutch center fitted in the first pic and a hub connector in the bottom pic. They're made by G&G manufacturing out of Omaha, the same brand that's stamped on the motor's shaft. (What an odd coincidence). This seemed to be the easy/cheap way to get everything centered perfectly without using a machine shop to custom make it. Welded the clutch hub center in first: (this photo is omitted because of the embarrassing results of my attempt at welding) Line 'em up: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00014-0.jpg Tack 'em: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00015-0.jpg Check for fit and trueness: (is that a word, or am I making it up as I go?) http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00016-0.jpg And for fit: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00017-0.jpg Weld around: (this photo is omitted because of the embarrassing results of my attempt at welding) Quickly surmise that thicker metal needs more heat, which means I need a thicker electrode, which I don't have, so screw it, I'll make it work... :o Grind off the mess and hit it with paint before anyone notices: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00019-0.jpg And, viola! You have a big lump of metal to throw at someone if they make any disparaging comments about your work. But, it fits, it's true, it spins without and wobble/play/out of round. So, hey, it'll do. ;) I think I'll pick up some thicker electrodes next time I am out at the tool store... :D |
Baby steps?
Sure, why not. Trying to get back in to the groove, after not getting much of anything done on the weekend. So, I started small....went and hooked power up to the car to check that I hadn't cut anything I shouldn't have. Everything worked, so I wrapped up the wiring for the wiper motor and the passenger side lights. It was enough to get me started. Mounted the plate to the motor, temporarily, hung it, and dropped the trans on top, like so: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00021-0.jpg Why? so I could line it up and...line it up! http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00022-0.jpg Now I'm pondering cutting it out. I need room for the CV shaft in the bottom left, at the very least. Do I cut out the rest and make it pretty, or do I leave the excess for potential mounting points for whatever else comes along and trim it as necessary later? :confused: Why can't I have a magic wand to do the work, or to return me to the last save point so I can do try out both ways? :p Still need to modify a 3/8" key to be 1/4" on one side too. :turtle: |
Looks like its coming along nicely!
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Hack job...
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00023-0.jpg http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00024-0.jpg I'll clean it up next time... Note to others: stick to 1/2" plate unless there's a good reason. Or don't bother cutting off the excess unless you have access to a decent band-saw; it's probably not worth the effort! :snail: |
Finally got a bit done...
Modified key to fit... http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00025-0.jpg Cleaned up the adapter plate a bit. Ie removed rough edges, smoothed curves and the like, but nothing grand. Mounted plate to motor, at which point I was free to finally test the coupling... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ShMo...ature=youtu.be :) I've gotten a few bolt holes drilled. That's where I'm leaving it for today... :turtle: |
Working on drilling the rest of the holes this morn.
There was one that there was no way to get a punch or anything else in, as it is tucked right up against the bulge in the case from the diff. The hole just barely comes out the back side there. Had to figure a way to accurately mark it, and after some head scratching, I came up with this: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/2/...ion00026-0.jpg A piece of electrical tape, placed roughly where the hole would be, then the transmission lowered carefully in to exact alignment, clamped/bolted down tight, and viola, it left an impression on the tape. The hard hole turned out to be one of the best aligned. :D Still need to find more hardware to fill all the bolt holes, but I had 3 sturdy bolts in place to hole it in alignment, so it was time for a test. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbsugYEUlo8 Dang, I could barely lift it on to my bench! Must be approaching 200lbs all together, about the same as the old engine & trans, together. I think that I'm over the hump...motor/trans/adapter/hub is the single hardest part of this project. Now I need to test it for fit and see if I'm going to cry until I can find 4 cylinder mounts and such or not. I'll remain optimistic...looking forward to that test fit! :thumbup: |
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