FORD F-150 EV announced
Thursday night,Disney-ABC news announced that Ford Motor Company has an EV version of it's 42-years -sales-leading F-150 in the pipeline.No other details.
So GM ,Toyota,Nissan,Mitsubishi,and FIAT now may feel compelled to follow,as Rivian Motors' EV pickup and TESLA have already fired the opening salvo in a war which has been dominated by ICE technology. Ford's been using Toyota's hybrid technology for years.It wouldn't be that big of a leap to go from plug-in hybrid,to full EV.Toyota and Ford could share that tech as well.And Tesla has been giving away all their secrets since day one anyway.So development costs would be minimized. Some Ford customers are already spending $65,000 for a pickup.This is EV territory. ICE will not be able to compete against the performance of an EV,even in range. Rolls-Royce has already made the jump.They're skipping hybrid,and going straight to EV. Supercars are the next to fall,after the new Tesla roadster debuts in 2020. 'a revolting situation for pistons!' |
5 years and California only right?
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5 and CA
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The new lower platform (body on frame) might be done in 18-months. The truck could be as indistinguishable as a Kona ICE,Hybrid,and Plug-in EV. They've already benchmarked the TESLA and know what it will cost to do the modifications.Their analysts will also know the numbers on Rivian and the other competitors. They know what it costs GM to do the Sierra/Silverado,and RAM,Tundra,Titan,etc.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The hitch will be a nationwide charging infrastructure and battery manufacturing. Hyundai / Kia have already learned the hard way about not having their own gigafactory. There's some really good jobs to be had! No downside at all,unless your way into pistons! |
Everyone has said they are going to do an EV half ton pickup.
No one has. Gas is $2 a gallon, no one cares right now. |
I care, but yeah, I'm not expecting a stampede to EVs. I'm predicting a more gradual adoption rate than many anticipate due to the gradual rate of improving tech/cutting costs.
Contractors should jump all over these since they can depreciate the purchase cost, and EVs will be way more reliable and need much less maintenance, and zero refuelling. That will keep the trucks working rather than working for the truck. |
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By the time they get things worked out, and they sell outside of US (I'm in Canada) ... my F150 should have 150 - 200K on it It would be nice if it was available by .. 2027 or so? Maybe after I retire I will get some motivation and do a conversion on my own? We'll see:D |
A full sized EV pickup. Hm.
waits |
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90% of time contractor truck is parked, mostly used as somewhere warm n dry portable office. Not sure what efficiency EV would be here. |
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It's definitely an interesting concept. |
gas
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contractors
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We have area auto retailers who specialize in 'workin'' the tax code,such that a contractor's purchase of a 'work' vehicle nets a handsome tax write-down over the amortization period. Stick a magnetic sign on the door,and Voila! a tax write-off. Even the home' 220-VAC charger and install fee will be a write-off. KWhs won't see price elasticity as with gas and diesel,so it won't matter what OPEC does to production/pricing. Even if we have another energy war,it won't show up as a 'war premium' at the electric meter. No annual 'emissions' testing. Depreciated used EV trucks will become available to those lower on the food chain. The schism is already in the marketplace with cars. Analysts say that EVs will have price parity with ICE by 2025,so we'll have a 'plurality' in the market by then. Skepticism about the supremacy of ICE will probably ensue,as growing numbers of consumers see the technological superiority of EVs,beginning the decline and eventual overthrow of the Holy Roamin' Combustion Church. 2041 might be a reasonable date for the 'extinction' of ICE.:) |
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I'm not acquainted with Rivian's motivation,but their business model is much like Tesla.Start up market ($65,000),use the profits to underwrite cost savings over the short term,and end up with an affordable unit for sale to the masses. Retired GIs are paying his kind of money for pickups,just to get to the the golf course and donut store,so this kind of price point is already acceptable to those with the discretionary income. |
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benchmark
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Your car was built inside a computer before any tooling was made,or an assembly line constructed. All the automakers bought a Tesla and tore it apart to see what made it tick,and how to do end runs around patents.Design,tooling,and manufacture is reverse-engineered from the autopsy. I've seen this firsthand.However,since Elon Musk has gifted mankind with his proprietary information,they won't have to concern themselves with patents and infringement. Rivian will build the naughty bits just like Tesla has.And at a lot less cost,as most of the R&D is gratis.Same for all makers. |
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Come 2025 ICE trucks will have no cost advantage over EV. |
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Overall horsepower is kinda moot when you have the torque of an electric motor. You're not going to out-pull it. You won't out-accelerate an EV. You won't beat their center of gravity You can't win on aerodynamics. Rolling resistance is a wash. All-wheel-drive /torque-vectoring is already off-the-shelf EV technology. A flat floor is a hard act to follow.Roomier inside.Better space utilization. Noise level. Zero fuel price volatility Refuel at home. Next year is Tesla's 600-mile range vehicle.They have megawatt packs now. Rivian is talking 500-miles of range if memory serves me. With 1/3rd the BSFC of ICE,there's not a diesel or gas truck that can touch the towing mpg'e of an EV. You won't have to pull the cab off the chassis to do a tuneup as with ICE trucks nowadays. No foreign fuel.Whose the patriot now? Zero-carbon capability.Try that with pistons! It's an interesting development |
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but ... at least for the near future ... it doesn't appear to make sense to outfit the F150 with enough battery to reproduce the gasser range. My F150 will do 1100 km, 690 miles, on the highway with economy mode and cruise enabled. Towing a 5000 lb boat the truck range drops to about half that. I do that 2 times a year, so I can deal with charging multiple times for that trip. Optimizing for battery size and weight .. is the challenge I see in the near future. OR .. convenient and high-powered charging that I won't be getting here (middle of nowhere Canada) for another 20 years ...OR maybe a Tesla battery as the bed of my trailer. I would not rely on electric charging infrastructure ... many promises but nothing delivered so far :( If we can get the range and refueling problems solved ... and there is progress being made ... I am cautiously optimistic. |
I'd still not hold my breath for an entirely electric full-size truck to become commercially successful. A simplified version of that pancake engine fitted to some hybrid trucks and a range-extender (eventually based on a microturbine) still makes more sense.
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No established automaker is copying Tesla’s design, they are doing their own design, incorporating decades of high volume assembly knowledge that Tesla doesn’t have. The battery is an excellent example. Nobody is copying Tesla’s glued together non-serviceable battery design. |
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Do you have a link you can share? |
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As for links: This is the 2020 model announced at the CES show. Level 2 autonomous driving, some big safety improvements, and a 5% boost in fuel economy. A write up: https://www.trucknews.com/equipment/...ns/1003089390/ Video of new features: https://vimeopro.com/cmdvideogroup/1...troitassurance And a picture: https://fleet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/POTW2.jpeg |
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The Rivian is offering up to 400-miles range on a charge.Would that not satisfy most contractors? The Great Wall Motors' Ora R1,is a 194-mile range EV,starting at $8,680. This vehicle,just as with a Model T Ford,could be sold as a pickup variant,with very little development cost.Like a Chevy Chevelle/El Camino.Ford Falcon/Ranchero. I helped on a $200,000 remodel in Lake Dallas.I drove my Civic.All the framing crew drove little ricers.Their boss had a pickup,but all the project materials were delivered to the job.He hardly ever left the job site.There was no driving to back and forth to HOME DEPOT or LOWE'S. It was all local commuting. I just don't think range is an issue. |
Range itself might not become such an issue as range-anxiety and the longer time to charge the batteries compared to filling a fuel tank. That's why I wouldn't hold my breath for a full-electric F-150 to become production-ready so soon. A serial hybrid with a microturbine powering the genset OTOH would make more sense, even though it might appeal more to fleet operators (who might eventually become able to trade "carbon credits") than to the average Joe. Even though the bragging rights are behind most vehicle choices, an average truck buyer is still too farther from becoming greenwashed to get a hybrid than a regular sedan buyer would be.
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EV's solve all kind of problems people don't know they have. There will be mass adoption of EV's when people figure out these problems they don't know they have. See my video "PhD Hubris" posted below for the nature of some of these existential problems.
https://youtu.be/SUev0yAUGNc |
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Honestly I'd love to see it though. I think if Ford can make it rock solid, with enough range to get through 1.5 typical workdays, and maybe throw some kind of multi-10s-of-thousands-of-miles powertrain warranty, and toss in some incentives for at home (or at small/medium company HQ) recharging, then they might be able to change the game. Just like they did with aluminum body panels. |
Why does every EV thread turn into a debate about how EV's won't work for every person or situation? Of course they don't. I don't know anyone that thinks they will work for everyone. However, even in current form, they would work for millions of people.
Most families in the USA have more than one car. Very few couples both commute more than 200 miles at the same time. Most families live in single family homes so charging at home is an option. One spouse driving an EV and the other a ICE is a combination that would work for millions of people. |
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And even though battery packs are getting bigger, quick charging is taking less and less time. Most people may not realize they would not be stopped any longer than with an ICE truck if it takes 20 minute charge time for 60-80% of a 400 mile range battery pack... So, it might be 500 miles, at highway speed, that is 8 hours or more? so there is atleast one to two meals, probably another 2 stops for bathroom... And if the truck had a 300 to 400 mile range, assuming you start at 80%, that is maybe 1 to two stops for charging... if you make those during the meals, no extra time is 'lost'... but even if you bring all your own food and drinks and only stop for bathroom breaks, that is still hardly any more lose of time... This is assuming a readily available charger that can charge the vehicle to 60-80% in 20 minutes. That is an issue currently, but as the major fuel supplying companies have all bought or developed their own charging business to be installed into their locations, but as time goes on that will go away. I think that if you want even a faster dump of power in a shorter time for longer range, instead of a Range Extender, I would put in an ultra-capacitor. Dump power into it, then bleed it off to charge the battery. It could also be used to take up regen.. I am sure slowing the much heavier loads a larger truck could be carrying/towing might (could?) generate more energy and exceed the desired duty cycle of a battery pack (but again, newer packs seem to be able to take power much faster). An ultra-capacitor could take the power, and use it either to help start the truck moving with its heavy load, or again just use it to charge the battery at a slower pace that is better for the battery pack. As for the convenience of an ICE powered car, it was not so convenient during the gas shortages in the 70s in the US or other places that have had them since. Not sure how much longer OPEC and other such organizations can keep colluding to keep the price of crude and gas as low as it is. RE: Servicing The technology that a car/truck mechanic needs to learn that they do not already have to know is probably high voltage, battery tech, and maybe 3 phase power. Tires are the same, suspension is the same... windshield wipers are the same, brakes are the same... And a modern car mechanic already has to know how to deal with lots of electronics (touch screens, radar, cameras, and such were being put into ICE cars a decade or so now). Just my thoughts and opinion on this. |
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Current trend is away from home ownership, but that has fluctuated over the last 60 years only by a few percentage, so I am not ready to say that will mean a big change, but 35% of the US population that do not own a home. |
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https://www.foxnews.com/auto/new-hal...osts-just-5700
Fords competitor has photos Nothing like reaching for the cheapest way to compliance |
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There will always be a few places ICEs will have an advantage.
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I'll take my concentrated energy in a jug. |
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My guess is, Ford is just starting on the design of this truck. They had to make the announcement now, though, because Rivian was making them look silly.
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I think they have most of that stuff figured out. Now they need to do the driveline, figure out how the heat will work .. how the cooling and heating works for the battery packs, cabin heat, etc, and how to fit the batteries, controllers, et al into a serviceable package. I don't think any of the big 3's all-electric designs will be new ground-up designs. I believe that they will leverage existing investments in body panels, suspension, dash, etc. That's how their accountants, auditors, and management think. So the first ones will have a range problem and perhaps some access challenges, restrictions on battery packaging and design .. pretty standard stuff. To be competitive ... they will need designs that are ground-up, all electric, starting-with-the-frame .. to fit everything where it fits best and makes the truck the best they can make it. But that's only my opinion ;) |
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The reason nobody makes an electric pickup is just how terrible the efficiency can be |
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