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-   -   Form follows aero function (no aesthetics) for Ferrari and Lamborghini cars (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/form-follows-aero-function-no-aesthetics-ferrari-lamborghini-30617.html)

Big time 12-03-2014 05:59 PM

Form follows aero function (no aesthetics) for Ferrari and Lamborghini cars
 
If Ferrari and Lamborghini only focused on low drag and downforce their cars would look like this

http://s27.postimg.org/rc4d64zdv/functional_shape.jpg

This would allow low drag while still having room for downforce generating venturi tunnels
http://s28.postimg.org/geiex18lp/basic_catamaran.gif

They make a big tradeoff for aesthetics so their cars look quite different from the depicted model.

aerohead 12-03-2014 06:12 PM

catamaran
 
Honda R&D investigated the catamaran body with their Dream solar car series.I don't have the source with me,but my failing memory tells me that their 1996 Japanese Society of Automotive Engineers paper claimed that the catamaran generated about 20% higher drag than the 'pumpkin seed'/'flattened-torpedo' body.
Here is one of the bodies they chose for competition,which won the World Solar Challenge.It has Cd 0.10.
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/...Untitled17.jpg

freebeard 12-05-2014 02:25 AM

Cross-winds. It's sort of an anti-Morelli.

Grant-53 12-05-2014 01:56 PM

Solar contest cars tend to focus on low drag, at lower speeds, with minimal creature comforts. A high performance sports car is focused on down force and visual impact. The catamaran shape is approximated with individual wheel fairing and belly pan designs. Road conditions require a certain amount of ground clearance. Cars that require the driver to be uncomfortable getting in or out would not sell. Side curvature and down force are used to minimize cross wind effects.

freebeard 12-05-2014 05:59 PM

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-fr...wu5wo1-500.jpg

Luigi Colani demonstrated downforce without a separate wing.

niky 12-05-2014 08:11 PM

An LMP1 or a Formula racer is the ideal shape that supercar makers will always try to approach or approximate... though they'll never make the cars that ungodly uncomfortable.

The ultimate expression of this is the T1 Caparo...
http://www.autoblog.nl/gallery/Capar...aparo_T1_1.jpg
Which is, visibly, a terrible design, drag-wise.

More realistically, they'll end up with a design and packaging similar to the McLaren F1, which was probably the last road car to become a successful top-level racing car. Low drag is nice, but the need for cornering stability, suspension travel, wider tires, engine cooling, a low center of gravity and etcetera, are always going to push the cars into similar shapes.

RunningStrong 12-06-2014 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big time (Post 458115)
If Ferrari and Lamborghini only focused on low drag and downforce their cars would look like this

They make a big tradeoff for aesthetics so their cars look quite different from the depicted model.

Aesthetics, dynamic performance, cooling, Centre of Gravity... The list goes on.

Case in point is any car that targets the mass-production high speed record. Why don't they use that low-drag design? Because the power needed to reach those speeds also required a huge amount of cooling. Something that really dogged the Bugatti Veyron throughout its development. You also have to make it a perform at all speeds upto that max speed, so that's low centre of mass, suspension geometry and downforce.

aerohead 01-10-2015 04:12 PM

function
 
Here is a 1967 Ferrari 330 P4 (upper image)
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/...ntitled7-3.jpg
And 1995 Ferrari F355 Berlinetta
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/...ntitled3-5.jpg
Lamborghini Countach of the 1980s
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/...d2/06-2823.jpg
and Lamborghini Aventador LP 700-4 of 2011
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/...Untitled22.jpg

Hypermiler1995 01-10-2015 07:20 PM

The rear angle of the Countach is good, but all those vents and scoops take their toll, like .40cd :eek:

Cd 01-10-2015 07:36 PM

.42 for the Countach, but I believe that is without the wheel flares and rear wing.
Those probably* brought it closer to .50 or more.

Here is an original tuft test without the wheel flares and wing. Also, note the intakes along the sides were flush, unlike the later versions.

http://us1.webpublications.com.au/st...0/3058_8lo.jpg

later version : http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--3OfYL9GVR...+Countach1.jpg

My favorite bit on that car was the aircraft inspired NACA duct .

* new lazy wordage : " prolly, or proly"

Hypermiler1995 01-10-2015 07:39 PM

[QUOTE=Cd;463132]
http://us1.webpublications.com.au/st...0/3058_8lo.jpg

I wish that they had made them all like that, thats beautiful! (aero aside)

Cd 01-10-2015 08:05 PM

As close as some of these cars appear to be to the template, it should be mentioned that nearly all of them have an open notchback design that results in high drag.

The 330 P4 is one of my all time favorite cars, and you can see why in this video :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awArTC8iQ3Q

freebeard 01-10-2015 10:25 PM

That's a great video. A timeless shape, with grinder marks on the aluminum air boxes and white painted headers with gnarly welds. ... and speed holes!

It doesn't seem practical day-to-day though. I picture those headlights and fenders wrapped around a Volhart-Saggita cabin, 3+1 seating—driver forward, two passenger seats, and a jump seat over the transaxle/single-speed electric motor-generator.

Vman455 01-11-2015 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cd (Post 463139)
As close as some of these cars appear to be to the template, it should be mentioned that nearly all of them have an open notchback design that results in high drag.

Not to mention wide rear tracks and almost no plan taper.

http://www.the-blueprints.com/module...500_s_1983.jpg

http://www.fastmotoring.com/wp-conte...h_top_open.jpg

NeilBlanchard 01-12-2015 08:00 AM

Aerodynamically, the elongated wheel openings do not appear to be low drag.

serialk11r 01-14-2015 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vman455 (Post 463201)
Not to mention wide rear tracks and almost no plan taper.

That's an Aventador convertible, the standard coupe has a louvered rear hatch which is aerodynamically pretty good.

I wouldn't call the scoops on the Countach "almost no plan taper", I'd call them "anti-plan-taper" lol. They jut out right where you'd expect the pillars to taper inward.

Frank Lee 01-14-2015 03:29 PM

Here's your loaf on wheels:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYTV4d-Gn0s

Don't know how much "catamaran" it has though.

Vman455 01-17-2015 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serialk11r (Post 463561)
That's an Aventador convertible, the standard coupe has a louvered rear hatch which is aerodynamically pretty good.

I wouldn't call the scoops on the Countach "almost no plan taper", I'd call them "anti-plan-taper" lol. They jut out right where you'd expect the pillars to taper inward.

It is a convertible, but the coupe has the same rear track, wider than the front. There's no narrowing of the footprint as you go back like you find with low-drag cars. Same with the Countach.


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