Fully Suspended Tribrid Tadpole
 

Howdy folks :D

First off, this is still a "project in progress" yet, I was hoping by posting my madness, some of the fine folks here may contribute their experience & suggestions...

What I'm trying to achieve with this "tribrid" is quiet comfort with a combination of range/efficiency and improved acceleration - both of which are somewhat questionable what with the added weight & mechanical drag. The advantage of experimenting with an electric hub is should the results be less than satisfying I can always just put the hub on another bike - but I'm really hoping it'll not come to that.

Overall this build is mostly for the sheer experimentation, an excuse to tinker w/both a four stroke 49cc Lifan and a 'Magic Pie' 48v 1000w electric drive and a recumbent tadpole configuration. My "best case scenario" is something that uses little fuel for my commute, offering comfort & reliability for the long hauls (daydreamin' of cross country trips & camping adventures ofc) - but really more than anything else, just the fun & education of tryin' ta make all the pieces fit lol;

...and it appears the pics will hafta wait ;)

Yay pictures :D

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...d/b8847042.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_c5a7a531.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_e3d3da75.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_5c18f375.jpg

Build log: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole (build phase)
Photo album: Tad pictures - Photobucket

oh my!!!!!!!!!!

please, post more madness!!!!!!

lol

I like it~

BarelyAWake -

Marvelous execution. With all the man-hours you must have put into it, no wonder you are sleepy!

CarloSW2

How many MPGe do you get in human-power mode? :D

So what problems are you having with it? it looks like it should be road worthy right now.

My guess tho as to what kind of troubles you have or that you will have, is that your free wheel (ratchet on the rear sprocket) is not holding up and that the Lifan engine has a pile of it's own issues, as they tend to.

My reasoning for bringing up the free wheel issue is that years back when I was working on super mileage vehicles for high school competitions we found that a chain drive from a gas engine to a bicycle free wheel would rip it apart, that it was like putting an impact driver on it, gas engines do not turn at a consistent speed and the pulses in their rotation will make the free wheels only last a few hours at best, the solution for this is the same as what is done on motorcycles, big chunks of rubber or springs that dampen the pulses, on motorcycles you find these dampeners under the rear sprocket in the rear hub, for this project you might even be able to get something like a love-joy coupler to work with a small fly wheel on the dampened side.

A friend of mine who owns a motorcycle shop has talked alot about how much he hates Lifan engines and pretty much any engine made in China, Lifan are a bit better then alot of them but they are still a knock off of a Honda engine only they use lower quality alloy and their quality control is sketchy, replacing worn out parts with Honda parts can help, if you can get them to fit, that is sometimes the case but not always.

Otherwise it looks like an awesome project! nice fabrication skills and it looks like you have a decent shop and are good at improvising on the parts that you don't have.

More madness mcrews? Mk heh: http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_IMG_4559.jpg

...no wait, that's "addiction" not madness, my bad lol ;)

Thanks Frank Lee & cfg83... I try not to think of two things too much however, man hours would be one, silly stuff like the budget being t'other heh

MPGs in pedal mode Patrick? Well, hopefully the miles per grin will be unprecedented... I s'pose there's... naw, we'll not talk about burrito power :rolleyes:

Ryland - Problems? lol - too many lil ones to regal ya with. No worries however, they're mostly fabrication & learning curve related, I joined this fine forum mostly to peruse other's projects & experience - I posted here to get w/e feedback folks felt like sharing and to offer a sample of mine insanities... I'm not sure there is help for that :p

You have brought up some good critical feedback & I thank you for it! They're concerns I hope won't be too dire but only time will tell I s'pose. First, although it may look "road worthy" it is not nearly as close to completion as it may appear. I'm at the "pesky details" stage, which is ofc the most time consuming for the least profound changes - given that and the season, I've decided to take my time and attend to such during the fall & winter - it's relatively complex electrical harness would be an example as I hope to "marry" the two motors (charging & accessories) as well as full lighting - and I've not even picked out what lights I'll be using, let alone figured out how & where to mount them heh

The cassette/freewheel & potential pawl failure is another valid observation, the concern compounded by it's intrinsic nature to my electric hub, fortunately it's one I'm somewhat prepared for... There's been extensive testing of 49-66cc two stroke engines (aprox 2hp) being routed through a bicycle's power train via jack shaft & interestingly pawl/freewheel failure seems to only occur with those that have chosen to run older, used internally shifted hubs. New, quality hubs don't seem to have this issue - the '43 Rollfast pictured above has a lil over four thousand miles on it's jack shaft through a (modern) Sturmey Archer x-rd3 (3sp drum brake hub). Cassette users have reported no freewheel failures that I've seen - but some distortion of the sprocket's teeth (twisting, sometimes referred to as looking like a turbine) - but those individuals have always admitted to some abuse, as in "speed shifting" (leaving it at wide open throttle while shifting).

Admittedly, those low cost, piston ported two strokes don't have squat for torque compared to their four stroke brethren so there is some cause for concern. Backup plans include ridding myself of the rear disk brake and using it's six hole mount for a sprocket (retaining the electric hub) or worse case, ridding myself of the electric hub & batteries and using a jack shafted Nuvinci CVP from Fallbrook Technologies - which has been shown to be able to handle up to about 9hp before failure (using Morini Franco two strokes).

Insofar as the "power pulse" issue, that's been the subject of much debate. A number of folks have suggested that the momentary peak torque load of a human actually exceeds that of the motors typically used to power a bicycle and that it's actually the sustained "high speed" engagement that appears to cause some premature wear, when in actuality it isn't premature - the miles accumulate much faster at a constant 25-30mph than the typical & variable 5-15 while pedaling.

As I lack access to a dyno small enough to be accurate & both sides of the disagreement seem perfectly rational, I've chosen to shrug it off and go with what I've experienced... and that's most quality bicycle hubs are capable of transferring up to roughly 4hp (conservative) from an internal combustion engine w/o undue failure (electrics w/the "instant torque" may fare differently)... I s'pose I'll find out lol

As for the quality of the Lifan, I chose it over other Chinese variants of the Honda CRF50 as it's a true "clone" and not merely a copy, as in all Honda parts are fully interchangeable. I knew it might be a compromise in quality when I purchased it, yet it was one I was willing to make as this ...erm... "vehicle" is a prototype to say the least heh. When I received the Lifan I was pleasantly surprised to find that in actuality it's castings are gorgeous, the milling of machined parts done w/precision and even it's fasteners seem of equal quality to it's Honda equivalent... but again it's a case of "we'll see" heh - should the taddy itself prove a success but the Lifan problematic, I'll happily replace it w/a real Honda :D

When I was a kid I made a trike go-cart with bicycle wheels and a typical go-cart drivetrain consisting of centrifugal clutch and chain, direct with no jackshaft. I had a driven sprocket welded right to the bicycle sprocket on the old "Mattatuck" coaster brake hub which survived the 2hp B&S "N" and the 3 1/2hp Tecumseh, but the hub split under the mighty 5hp B&S' torque.

I think these days I'd like to go with belt drive- built in rubber cushioning AND no fooling around with messy lubes.

True, true - chains can be both messy & noisy, yet the (marginal) friction losses of a belt drive yet w/all the same or worse tensioning issues resulting in slip (suspension travel too), I figure for this app, chains were the way to go...

Belts are a nice option for a standard bicycle four stroke conversion tho, I'm sure you're familiar with Wizzers?

I wish ya had a coupla pics of your ol' "trike go-cart" lol, such beasts are always awesome to behold ;)

Wow, that is some beautiful work. Amazing little machine!

Thanks Chromedome, sorry for the delayed reply...

TBH, I do think tadpoles are a lil... odd looking save for the form following function aspect ofc *shrug* I've dabbled a bit with trying for a "pretty" motorized bike* & while I do like it, it's got about a 100 mile range maximum - or to be more accurate, I've got about a hundred miles I can put up with before I'm totally sore & exhausted, despite the sprung forks & seat and it's balloon tires.

While I've done my best to quiet it, the noise & vibration of the cheap two stroke has a lot to do w/it as well...

Which is ofc what lead me to look into a four stroke/electric suspended tadpole :D

*a (mostly) 1943 Rollfast;
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...747resized.jpg
photo album: Rollfast pictures - Photobucket

Any thoughts of building a streamlined shell a la the Quest velomobile?

Yes actually, lots of 'em - so many in fact it's given me a headache lol

TBH, turning this thing into a full fledged velomobile is more than a lil bit of a challenge and I'm not sure about the consequences... everything is a compromise & one of the ones I had to make was it's overall length in order to motorize & suspend. I've been trying to keep it's wheelbase as close as possible to other "preformance" tadpole trikes - but I did hafta add roughly 10" to it's wheelbase to squeeze the motor in there w/the rear suspension's travel accounted for... and it all adds up.

Here's it's measurements BTW;
wheelbase (contact patches) 4'6"L x 32"W
8' LOA x 3'W x 3'T (top of helmet rest)

While that may not seem like much & it isn't particularly in height (gonna defo need the silly orange flag lol) - as soon as I start trying to match a body shell to it, it starts getting ridiculous, the width and very much the length start becoming relatively unmanageable, a minimum of ten feet long for example (pedal/feet clearance).

Add in some factors like difficulty in entering/exiting, visibility concerns (mine, others would ofc see me even better), weight & balance (leaning body mass for stability), ground clearance (suspension travel), and transportability (it just fits in the back of a pickup ATM) as well as the admittedly minor, even trite considerations regarding aesthetics... and it's become overwhelming to the point that I've shelved the idea for now...

...but I am w/o doubt open to any & all ideas regarding any aerodynamic suggestions or body shell ideas, I've not given up on it by any means - I've jus' got a couple few far more basic things on my plate lol, in the interim I've been considering one of these: Mueller Human Power Recumbent Fairings and Bicycle Windscreens

As for those "basics", I did finally get my pedal chain & power idlers sorted - other'n some lil things, the chassis "fabrication" stage is done & now it's all modification and component work :D
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...d/a313e943.jpg

Mine was 9' long with the full fairing since I have a hub motor, and no frame extension, 40" wide, and 3' high with the roof on from 2005 t0 2010, then I took the top off then removed the shell in 2011. Amusing that you are thinking ahead (like I should have). I had to get in like a "pretzel" into a 4" off the ground floorboard into a 2' long open door. Couldn't see behind me with the top on (whale tail was also a headrest).

What "ruined" it was speed. I went my top speed downhill; then aerodynamics and gravity took over. Climbed right out of safe control. Way too fast! When I stopped - I dismantled the trike the next day. Scared me!

The rebuilt trike top speed is nowhere near what it was; but that is fine with me! I do not care for those orange flags, but that 2 tone 'Be Seen' flag is good enough! ;)

Thanks for sharing your experience Christopher, I'm basing my decisions mostly on "gut feelings" and quite a bit of clicky research lol - I've no time on a recumbent/taddy whatsoever, this 'uns my first :D

So your feedback is greatly appreciated - while I'm not building it for speed, I am trying for efficiency & it's interesting to note the two are often intertwined... I suspect this thing will be plenty fast 'nuff even w/o a body, but still, I'd love to see what kinda mileage I'd get w/one.

The 'Windwrap' fairing I linked to prolly isn't the best for aerodynamics despite it's advertising, I'm most likely still going to try one for comfort considerations though...

The mueller fairing makes a pretty fair front if you attach coroplast sides. By itself you probably won't notice any difference.
http://www.veloliner.com/iowaTT06/DSCN0426.JPG

Your drive train makes a lot of turns. how much friction do you notice when you pedal backwards. I think it is a reasonable measure of drive line friction. Hope that you are using quality idler wheels.

Mcmaster carr sells nice v belt pulleys with ball bearings that make great chain idlers.
http://www.mcmaster.com/param/images...34kcallout.gif

I agree, w/o the sides & tail I suspect a fairing would be mostly for comfort - which ofc I've no aversion to lol... yet seeing the above pic has brought another concern to my attention & one I'd not considered before (thanks BTW), & that's weather - most particularly side gusts.

While the above body shell no doubt vastly reduces wind resistance under ideal conditions & it's hard to tell from the pic how tall it actually is - I can't help but wonder what effect it had on handling & control, say w/a variable 20mph crosswind for example... a phenomenon not uncommon at all on the coast of Maine (to be guilty of a grave understatement heh). While I think I'd have some advantage over the above (what appears to be) bicycle with the lateral stability a trike provides... I think perhaps I'd attempt a more "form fitting" body, reducing it's profile as much as possible.... which granted, my not be possible at all.

Unfortunately yes, my pedal chain takes a somewhat convoluted route & worse yet it's redirects are on the power side. After many admittedly silly attempts to pass it through the A arm suspension (to try and increase ground clearance), I resorted to blatantly copying the chain path used on an unsuspended taddy. As I've that great honkin' engine case in the way - I've little choice. It's only a lil 49cc four stroke, but as it's an auto clutch (I've already too many levers and whatnot lol) it's somewhat wide (11").

I do appreciate the link to the V belt pulleys as it seems the second ya seek "recumbent" bits, the price triples regardless of how basic the part may be - strikingly similar to "marine" or "aviation" stuff it seems lol, I took another option however and one that's seemed to work really well. Despite the fact my "clicky" research informed me that I should use cogs on the power side (to reduce the felt vibration of links passing over a roller), I simply got some inexpensive skateboard wheels and lathed them down to accept the chain & replaced their shoddy bearings w/some quality sealed ones I happened to already have. I'm planning on getting some better skateboard wheels at some point, a softer compound (again, reduce felt vibration) yet at the time the cheapos were all I could find locally & as I'd never attempted to lathe skateboard wheels before - I figured these would be good enough for my experimentation.

As it turns out it worked really well, with the teflon chain return tube, 'Starboard' (fancy overpriced plastic, same as a cutting board tho) chain retainers & tube supports and the new route - I can now pedal and back pedal freely w/o binding or undue friction... ofc there's some friction, but the pedals will free spin a couple of turns despite the chain being bone dry.

I'm thinking there will be far more drag from the jackshaft & engine chain (clutched) than there is from my two pedal chain idlers... yet this "pedal assist" motorized trike differs a bit from others in that I hope to pedal to assist it as opposed to it assisting me, should somehow two out of it's three motive systems fail leaving only my leg power... well, I hope I'm not too far from home lol - it's heavy for a tadpole trike if nothing else. It still weighs in less than a factory new two stroke Tomos moped however, something I'm perhaps disproportionately proud of - and I can thank it's LifPo4 battery packs & (double walled) aluminum wheelset for :D

Here's a coupla pics of the idlers while I was making them, I may redo them as I can squeeze a hair more ground clearance if I remake the Starboard & stainless bits... but it'd be fractional at best *shrug*

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_1a6bc549.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_9fe26164.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_c6d4e540.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_1be13fa5.jpg

Here is an early web page showing the bike and the coroplast fairing. coroplast fairing

I have ridden it fully faired on a lot of centuries, road races and track events. It does fine in the wind when running in the mid 20 mph range. The key to having a good handling road machine is to keep the the nose spherical and the body short.

a mueller fairing would be the start of nice streamlined shape. Mueller will sell overblown fairings pretty cheap. Just build a mount and you are in business.

When your skate wheels fail consider the pulleys. Don't worry about having the teeth.

I thought I'd mention I'm still whittling away at the to-do list, aside from about a zillion "little" things like welding tabs & mounts already made, I'm down to mostly jus' electricals (wiring harnesses, full lighting etc.) fenders, panniers, n'other assorted details...

Should be good to go come spring ;)

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_dfadf0b8.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_4f384ae1.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_8ffb4a9c.jpg

Album: tad pictures - Photobucket
Build log: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

This housing rebuild will keep me in a "temporary" home at least another year. All 3 of my trikes are locked up in different bike rooms here and the fairing is in storage; so all trikes and parts will be "barn finds" to someone! I look ahead to starting over. I was lacking suspension- that was the downfall. I do not want to leave that out of the build next time.

Given your measurements, the Blue Sky Design body for Electrathon competition might work. I build my fairings for upright bikes from 1 in. hex mesh glued between layers of tarp plastic supported by stiff nylon tubing for plumbing.

If you mean this: http://www.blueskydsn.com/CATALOGUE.pdf - yes, it defo has potential & it's one of the few designs I've seen that I also find quite aesthetically pleasing as well... not that such should be a priority, but I s'pose it is lol

There's a few tricky bits tho - the specs don't quite work with my seat, pedal & front wheel locations & while I could ofc mod to fit, I can't help but wonder if it gets to that I wouldn't be better off fabricating my own as you inferred... perhaps inspired by the Blue Sky Design body & based around that M4 canopy as it's one of the nicer ones I've seen. If you know of any others, similar to that canopy - I'd love to see 'em, can't have too many choices I figure.

Dunno, TBH I've got my hands full ATM jus' finishing up the million odds & ends, sorting out the pettiest of details that while small, can't be ignored lol - while I've no end of projects & plans vying for attention & time, the likeliest is I'll be using this upcoming riding season for test runs & dialing in the taddy, depending on those results I may build a body shell next winter for it... and a two wheel suspended trailer... and a replacement beater bike... and converting my '43 Rollfast to a Maytag... and w/e else I'm forgetting at the moment heh

Yes, that's the one. Zzipper or Mueller may offer canopies or check sailplane suppliers. My home built fairings for upright bikes are coroplast or hex mesh bonded between plastic tarp material such that used to cover pallets of plywood. Nylon 5/16" hard tubing or ABS are used for ribbing. I use angle aluminum for spars.
I wish your winter beater mountain bike was legal here in NYS.

Yes, it's highly unfortunate that the state of New York takes such a stance against what is in fact a viable alternative means of transport - limiting what you're allowed to use to what's offered by a "licensed manufacturer" only without provision, such as a safety inspection & excepting only ebikes - which seem to be allowed within some comparatively limited constraints;

While this is completely feasible within city limits & perhaps even preferable - in rural communities the effectiveness of ebikes as distance commuters & daily drivers becomes highly questionable, particularly in adverse weather conditions & off season use. 750 watts (1hp) is at least far better than the 250w (0.33hp) I believe it used to be there...

I have a deep appreciation for the potential of both bicycles and electric vehicles, but given the limitations currently faced in both viable range & cost, it remains a rather unpopular choice & that's a shame really - when combined with making liquid fuel assist bicycles outright illegal it puts a stranglehold on the market & vastly reduces the options available to anyone seeking alternative transportation to pretty much commercially available vehicles & ebike kits.

While I don't particularly recommend the engine I use on my winter beater (commonplace Chinese kit) as it's of amazingly low quality & a primitive design, it does illustrate the potential as I've been commuting as a daily driver for three full years in the state of Maine. Using an approximate 12 gallons of fuel per year* (including recreational riding) and adding in the cost of the bike ($200), the cost of the kit ($150) and the lack of mandatory insurance or registration (a license is required in this state) and the total cost over the past three years has been roughly $500, including fuel @ $4 a gallon.

...which about translates to just one replacement battery pack, no bike, no motor and given the distances traveled & limited charge cycles even with the battery technology available (optimum 1000 cycles w/lifepo4 & BMS) - you're probably looking at a replacement every 2 - 2&1/2 years or so, best case scenario.

Needless to say that isn't the most economical choice for my usage at least, nor even an environmentally sound one given the materials involved.



*I can't quote actual fuel mileage as it's wildly variable - it's a pedal vehicle operated under all conditions & speeds, thus gallons per year. I usually average about 3-4000 miles a year but obviously it's not a 300mpg+ engine lol ;)

The e-bike bill yet again got stalled in the NYS Senate so even those are not street legal yet! Keep those cards and letters coming folks. Those from out of state can share their experiences with our legislators. The irony of all this is that the Aqua Bug, one of the first popular gas powered friction drive bike motors, was based in Melville, NY. I still have a 23cc 1hp motor kit based on a Canadian chain saw engine that would do 25 mph on a Huffy 3 spd with a plexiglass motorcycle windshield.

oops, sorry for the misinformation - I thought they'd gotten that sorted by now... it really is somewhat ridiculous.

Aqua Bug/Bike Bug? Yep, I've one of those as well on an old 60's Stokvis (dutch bike) tho I rarely if ever use it TBH;

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...IMG_2030-1.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_IMG_2032.jpg

Ahh, I love the smell of melting plastic in the morni...

No... wait I really don't, but it's all I've been up to lately. Still huntin' down some of the widgets I need, scratchin' my head trying to figure schematics & cutting, stripping, crimping, soldering, shrink wrapping & doin' it some more...

gaw... there's a lotta wiring in this project lol and I ain't near done yet - jus' figured I'd post up some of what's been goin' on ;)

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_b6c52346.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_07b3710c.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_cc368b8c.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_da1ab709.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_4ffa0702.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_1e8f5681.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_53f82f79.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_725b13db.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_b769c85a.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_73a170f5.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_33c62996.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_511cecc3.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_f7795332.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_f0cd94a5.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_a3c8264e.jpg

Album: tad pictures - Photobucket
Build log: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Very cool! Thank you for posting all the pics!!

The Aptera shape developed by Alberto Morelli lends itself to a recumbent bike.

Maybe if you rotated it 90 degrees so the tail was vertical.

Since the top and the sides can be sloped at about the same angle, a vertical fish tail would be shorter and / or have lower drag than a horizontal beaver tail. So for a reverse trike, the former would be better. Also look at the Quest velomobile for an amazing model of a low drag chassis.

Quest is an excellent shape. One can weigh the advantages once given the CG. Downforce can be better than fin area for stability in yaw.

You guys are so far ahead of me lol, I've only given the vaguest of considerations to the thought of a velomobile conversion as of yet & TBH, I've been coming up with more problems than solutions, like difficulty in getting in/out of the thing, overall length & ofc cost/construction.

Please don't take me wrong though - your discussion & suggestions are greatly appreciated and valued! I really do like the Quest shape for example, it's just even best case scenario it won't be till next winter that I can realistically consider taking on a project like that, even then I suspect I'll need some redesign & modification - though I'm really hoping I'll get most of that sorted this summer.

For now I'm still in the midst of the admittedly boring wiring & control configuration, which has been going slowly for a coupla reasons, mostly because I'd like to get it right the first time - but I've also had to divide my attention, my other bikes have become jealous lol so I'm building a new motor for the '43 Rollfast & just trying to keep my poor winter beater Schwinn in one piece... with over 10,000 miles on a POS box store bike, that's becoming interesting, perhaps even an exercise in futility heh

Still, there's been some progress to report - I finally figured out how/where to mount the taillight/brake light/blinker unit (very pleased w/it's astounding brightness), upholstered the breaker panel & mounted it (though it still lacks the needed heat shield), but probably the most time consuming yet least interesting was making the lighting and accessories wiring schematic, which once it's finalized with however many corrections/revisions/additions it needs - will be printed on sticker stock & stuck... somewhere under the seat so I don't loose the silly thing :p

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_f020e4f8.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_3a242285.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_b09b8c26.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_be739552.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_7adde885.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_a29dd4fb.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_664fe66a.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_ec91297e.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...h_3f6535f9.jpg

Down force? What is the top speed of the bike? 35 mph?

original trike?
 

What is the original trike maker and model? I have not come across one that looks like what you are using. The closest is the HP Velotechnik Scorpion FS:

HP Velotechnik - Products - Scorpion fs foldable trike

The original trike maker and model would be... me... mostly :D

Sorry for the confusion, I should have made it clearer that it's a completely custom build save for the repurposing of w/e commonly available parts I could manage, to facilitate maintenance & repair - such as the front A arms, which are chopped & lightened Yerf-Dog gokart components (a touch overkill, but inexpensive). There's better A arms out there BTW, I used the Yerf-Dog's simply because they'd had a spindle recall and there was a glut on the market, the entire front suspension assembly could be had for pennies on the dollar, perfect for experimentation.

While I initially planned on making my own frame as well, during the mockup stage I realized I could save quite a bit of headache time by utilizing a preexisting subframe, one already made to fit the motor's mounts etc. While heavier than optimum I took a destroyed 50cc four wheeler's chassis and chopped, dropped & raked it to fit my application and redid all the welds (they were really bad). With only an estimated 40% of just the original subframe remaining, it's far lighter than I feared it would be. If it all turns out well, I may just replicate it's frame with a lighter material, but if you're considering a scratch-build with a horizontal four stroke, I'd recommend just buying a new kiddie-sized ATV to start with as it costs almost the same as the engine alone - but comes with the harness, switches, motor mounts & more. Provided it's a recognizable/reputable engine brand (like Lifan), that's far more sensible then the hunt & scratch I did lol

The rear chainstays & the pedal tube are "recycled" steel mountain bike bits... I think the cheesy 'NEXT' brand TBH, but I really liked the dropout design & I've redone the welds on those too for safety concerns. I've built/rebuilt everything else I can think of, save the seat (didn't wanna bother w/fiberglass layups lol) and the wheelset - which I had custom made for this application by a wheelbuilder friend of mine...


While I would have greatly preferred just motorizing a preexisting taddy, when I started planning this build (daydream stage), there simply wasn't any commercial fully suspended tadpoles available that were even remotely suitable... actually at the time there was only one or two companies that even made them at all that I could find - ones that had true dual A arms anyway, like the Berserker. Of the ones I could find they were... extremely cost prohibitive for the gawdawful abomineering & experimentation I had in mind.

While cost may be less a concern for others, I've found that recumbents & recumbent parts in general carry a substantial surcharge just for the sake that they're recumbents... brakes, spindles, wheelsets - w/e it may be it seems they want three or four times as much than their upright equivalents, regardless of application, quality or brand. Even unsuspended, unmotorized tadpole recumbents often cost almost as much or even more than I've got in this entire project, engines included - which is 2500 bucks or so, roughly... it's something I try to not think about too much lol

...so with some reluctance I realized if I really wanted to do this, I was gonna hafta do it all me dang self :o

Cool! That helps explain how the motors fit in so well -- you designed the frame. Awesome job.

BarelyAwake, how is your trike coming along? I just found this thread and think your project is interesting. Have you considered using the engine as a generator for the electric hub rather than connecting it mechanically to the wheel? This could eliminate the problem of premature wear on the geared hub. Just use the engine as a range extender like the Chevy Volt does. I'm not sure how you could do it, but if you've managed to build this thing up to this point you're probably clever enough to make it happen.