Performance Hybrid idea(s)

[Nonhog]

So tell me if I am wrong here...........
To build a proper road going Hybrid you would likely need computer control to have a smooth transition from Combustion engine to electric and back.
So what about applications where smooth NVH are an non issue.
Say off road trails or drag racing? My idea would be small individual wheel motors at front or rear hubs depending on the vehicle in question.
Just a off the line amount of power the propel the car say just at the starting line in a drag race or to get up a steep incline off road.
Just day dreaming...............

[Nonhog]

I'm picturing in my head a Baja Bug with RWD having FWD temporary electric boost, obviously battery weight being a factor you probably could rock crawl all day?

Or why didn't leno keep his FWD spindles on his Toronado and have them electrically driven. Anyone else think this way? Or is it to unfeasible?

[freebeard]

Firstly. Within 5 minutes you can edit the original post and no one will even know.

Secondly, 36 posts since 2010? Have a couple thanks for posting.

More to the point. A computer isn't strictly required, but I'm not sure that's the question. Consider a through-the-road hybrid. Thanks for offering the Baja Bug as an example. I've got one on jack-stands in a barn.

A through-the-road hybrid could have a VW/Subaru rear-wheel drive, and electric front hubs under driver control, e.g. with a one or two lever 'cutting brake' that instead of being in the hydraulic system would provide command to the electric controller.

The link-pin front hubs could be substituted with Schwimmwagen hubs, else the front brakes could be substituted with electric drive/regen hubs.

Don't get me started....

Edit: With single-lever regen, you could use the regen as a brake while you warm up the rear tires.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Possibilities are nearly endless. BTW as you mentioned a Baja Bug, why not to consider a custom frame with a rear-mounted Prius drivetrain? That would be interesting to say the least, and you could arrange the battery packs in a way that would improve the weight balance.

[Nonhog]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Firstly. Within 5 minutes you can edit the original post and no one will even know.

Secondly, 36 posts since 2010? Have a couple thanks for posting.

More to the point. A computer isn't strictly required, but I'm not sure that's the question. Consider a through-the-road hybrid. Thanks for offering the Baja Bug as an example. I've got one on jack-stands in a barn.

A through-the-road hybrid could have a VW/Subaru rear-wheel drive, and electric front hubs under driver control, e.g. with a one or two lever 'cutting brake' that instead of being in the hydraulic system would provide command to the electric controller.

The link-pin front hubs could be substituted with Schwimmwagen hubs, else the front brakes could be substituted with electric drive/regen hubs.

Don't get me started....

Edit: With single-lever regen, you could use the regen as a brake while you warm up the rear tires.

Firstly-secondly, not sure why either matters?
To the point, I was hoping to see examples of my hybrid idea(s) I searched and skimmed through the hybrid area but probably rushed through and missed something? Granted this is a Eco site not a racing site but the basics could be tweaked to fit goals.
Get you started? Of course that is what the thread is for!

Thanks for the ideas (and thanks)

[Nonhog]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

Possibilities are nearly endless. BTW as you mentioned a Baja Bug, why not to consider a custom frame with a rear-mounted Prius drivetrain? That would be interesting to say the least, and you could arrange the battery packs in a way that would improve the weight balance.

I would love to see something like that but doesn't fit in to my add on hybrid idea. Have you seen the transaxle buggies? Prius drivetrain sounds interesting.

[freebeard]

In a different subforum Fossil Fuel Free there is a thread on Hot-rodding The Toyota MGR. It is about a part that is from Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive technology, but from the Toyota Highlander/Lexus SUV instead of the Prius. To begin with, it's like a Prius with a V-6. And it has a separate electric MGR for the rear wheel drive.

Above you see the (3rd) MGR compared to a 36hp VW engine case. It weighs 98lb and puts out 68hp/50N. It will fit in the same space occupied by the VW transaxle. The design goal is a 2WD EV conversion that weighs no more than the original~1800lb. Below, wedged in place with some sticks.



As it turns out, Toyota themselves did a concept car called the Alessandro Volta. It had the V-6, MGR1 and MGR2 in back with MGR3 in front—the reverse of the SUV.


http://www.carstyling.ru/en/car/2004_toyota_alessandro_volta/

I'd be thinking about two of the MGR3 front and rear in a M2A Jeep? For me the problem with hybrids is they don't get away from 'fossil' fuel.

[oldtamiyaphile]

My dream is a VW T3/Vanagon syncro with a Subaru engine powering the rear wheels and an electric motor driving the front diff. You could have around 600hp in an AWD van

I've also always liked the idea of a hybrid Baja, the main issue being there's a lot of fabrication to make the front drive train work. Starting with a Porsche 964 could actually prove cheaper And I've always loved the idea of owning a rally prepped Porsche.

[Joe of Loath]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Firstly. Within 5 minutes you can edit the original post and no one will even know.

Secondly, 36 posts since 2010? Have a couple thanks for posting.

More to the point. A computer isn't strictly required, but I'm not sure that's the question. Consider a through-the-road hybrid. Thanks for offering the Baja Bug as an example. I've got one on jack-stands in a barn.

A through-the-road hybrid could have a VW/Subaru rear-wheel drive, and electric front hubs under driver control, e.g. with a one or two lever 'cutting brake' that instead of being in the hydraulic system would provide command to the electric controller.

The link-pin front hubs could be substituted with Schwimmwagen hubs, else the front brakes could be substituted with electric drive/regen hubs.

Don't get me started....

Edit: With single-lever regen, you could use the regen as a brake while you warm up the rear tires.

36 posts since 2010? I can beat that

Anway, I'd be tempted to go series hybrid (diesel/petrol electric) over parallel hybrid. The software would be much easier to write, and you could drive it like a PHEV for short distances. Think a low budget Chevy Volt.

[pete c]

I believe the performance potential of hybrids is in the fact that you can have huge short power outputs fairly cheaply and without too much weight. This doesn't help much in racing applications, but, it can help greatly in real world driving where you occasionally have the need for power for a short period. Electric drive gets heavy/expensive when you require high power levels for more than a few seconds.

Porsche's 918 is a good example of hyper-performance from a hybrid, but it is beyond most anyone's budget. What I would like to see is something along the lines of a Mustang with a low budget version of this. Use the V-6 RWD and add a light FWD e drive with a lightweight Li-Ion pack. Give it the ability to put out 100 HP for 5 seconds or sustained low power output for short periods of low speed electric only running. Add a lowpower generator to the engine, something along the lines of a first gen insight. Make it powerful enough to put out enough sustained power to the front drive for low speed crap weather driving.

This would give you GT like acceleration for 5 seconds, which, in the real world is long enough. It would also give you all weather AWD capabilities. When you need AWD, you DO NOT need high power output. This would not be a rally car.

Assuming the battery was kept quite small, I think such a system could be built for a reasonable price. And I believe it would have a better city mpg number than a regular V-6 mustang.