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-   -   Gen 1 Insight annoyances (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/gen-1-insight-annoyances-9486.html)

SVOboy 08-01-2009 07:12 PM

Gen 1 Insight annoyances
 
I'm mainly whining here, but I was really hoping the insight would have a double-wishbone suspension so I could go ahead and try to swap the insight front knuckles onto my CRX, but o no, gotta use macpherson-crap struts.

O well! Guess I'll have to whip up some custom axles.

Frank Lee 08-01-2009 08:02 PM

I guess I don't know what to do about it.

Christ 08-02-2009 04:09 AM

Have you considered pressing the two parts of the hub apart and checking to see if the bearing/spindle of the Insight would fit in the race of the CRX?

If it's too big, it might be better off to just take it to a machine shop and tell them to match the profile of the CRX's spindle, so you can just press it in and be done, still using the Insight axle.

Although, if the axles are the same length or really close, you may just be able to swap the ends from one axle to the other, if the splines on the shaft are correct for the "other" CV end.

SVOboy 08-02-2009 04:26 AM

Yes, I've been trying to investigate those things but I can't find any information on the axles of the insight and those of the CRX in terms of spline count and length, etc. I know the CRX info is out there since I've seen it before, but no luck with the Insight.

Will pick up a shop manual soon, but waiting to get the right year.

Christ 08-02-2009 12:36 PM

Silly me, I had presumed that you already had the parts, or at least had current access to them. :rolleyes:

SVOboy 08-02-2009 01:27 PM

Nope, I'm trying to plan ahead before I just go and take apart my car and think "O hey, this doesn't fit right"

Christ 08-02-2009 01:36 PM

I dunno if the HF axle's center section is any different, but I'll take it apart and count the splines for you, since it's just a junk axle anyway. Who knows, while I have it apart, I might find a use for it!

jamesqf 08-02-2009 02:03 PM

Err... Maybe you need to back up a bit and try to explain why on earth you would want to do such a thing. Is it that you just need a challenge to add some interest to a boring and empty life?

SVOboy 08-02-2009 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesqf (Post 119132)
Err... Maybe you need to back up a bit and try to explain why on earth you would want to do such a thing. Is it that you just need a challenge to add some interest to a boring and empty life?

That's a thinly veiled insult, there.

Anyway, the reason is because I'll be doing an insight swap and having custom axles made would be more expensive than reusing available parts.

Christ 08-02-2009 02:07 PM

There's another thread explaining why SVO wants to add Insight guts to his CRX, rather than just getting an Insight... not sure where it is, though I'm sure I've read it.

My life is fairly boring, so yeah, I'll count the center section's splines for something to do, and to *hopefully* aid a fellow Ecomodder's pursuit of project fruition.

SVOboy 08-02-2009 02:16 PM

Good point, he may have been making fun of you! I wonder which of us is truly more boring and uninteresting!

Christ 08-02-2009 02:18 PM

I'll take the poke... I've been getting poked at by my FIL since I blocked the grille on the van... (Your transmission will overheat) :rolleyes:

SVOboy 08-02-2009 02:21 PM

O well, if if blows up you can do an insight swap on it :p

Christ 08-02-2009 02:26 PM

Was thinking about EV/Diesel, actually.

EV for around town, Diesel for anyplace else. I figure a decent EV setup will get me about 20 miles of range, which is good enough to get me around town reliably... the diesel/5 speed end will get me anywhere else I need to go, for ~90cents per gallon or less.

Sorry for the hijack - :)

RobertSmalls 08-02-2009 09:49 PM

I've got the 00-06 Insight factory service manual right here. And an 00 Insight without plates right over there.

All it says is the axle nut is M22x1.5, and the shafts are 483mm and 763mm +/- 2mm long, measured from the inboard side of the hub to the tranny.

SVOboy 08-02-2009 09:58 PM

Sweet, will look in the crx manual for the corresponding info now.

Sure you don't want me to take that insight off your hands?

SVOboy 08-02-2009 10:33 PM

483 and 776.5 +/- 2mm for the crx axles.

Think the axle nut might be 22x1.6

So, length is only 1cm off on one side, if the spline count is the same or the hubs can be swapped, what do people think about using the insight axles (I could position the engine to split the difference so it's only 5mm different on each side)?

Christ 08-02-2009 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVOboy (Post 119209)
483 and 776.5 +/- 2mm for the crx axles.

Think the axle nut might be 22x1.6

So, length is only 1cm off on one side, if the spline count is the same or the hubs can be swapped, what do people think about using the insight axles (I could position the engine to split the difference so it's only 5mm different on each side)?

Axle nut should be M22-1.5... there is never anything but a 0 or 5 as the last number, that I know of. In fact, I think most Honda Smalls share the same axle nut.

5mm on each side won't hurt anything... it's only 1/4", which is within the realm of "engine slop". In fact, 1/4 inch deviation can be had under lateral load of the suspension... or by offsetting the mounts slightly while installing the engine.

Use harder mounts, put in a urethane bushing kit from Energy (only $130 or so). If you're going to use D-series rubber mounts in the car, I've got some 70D poly inserts for you, once I dig them out again, which will approximate solid mounts.

SVOboy 08-02-2009 10:53 PM

You're smart, I think the page I was reading just had blurry printing. :P I'm too tired to sort that out by myself.

I want planning on just filling up some mounts with solid urethane for cheap since I don't feel like paying much.

Any idea how to find out if the spline count is the same/they'll fit without physically doing it? I've tried to compare hub part numbers, but can't find the crx hub on a parts site.

Christ 08-02-2009 11:42 PM

I'll look around tonite, and see if I can find any info... sometimes, mfr's list spline counts on rebuilt axles.

Christ 08-02-2009 11:47 PM

Have you checked at AutoZone or anywhere to see if they have either in stock? You can ask about them, if they have them, just compare the spline counts, then you'll know for sure!

SVOboy 08-02-2009 11:52 PM

No one seems to carry insight driveshafts, so no dice there. I doubt honda will have them in stock but I'll call and ask for posterity's sake tomorrow

Christ 08-03-2009 12:10 AM

CRX -
Transmission circlip - 24mm

Insight -
Transmission circlip - 20mm

That tells me that the inboard joints are different, but I can't say yet for the outboard. They both use the same spindle (axle) nut, however.

SVOboy 08-03-2009 12:15 AM

Yeah. I thought they might be the same also because I believe the brakes are nearly the same size and honda is pretty good and keeping things standard for ages. I wish I knew someone at honda who would have the specs...

Christ 08-03-2009 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVOboy (Post 119234)
Yeah. I thought they might be the same also because I believe the brakes are nearly the same size and honda is pretty good and keeping things standard for ages. I wish I knew someone at honda who would have the specs...

I'm not saying the hub side is different, just that the inboard (transmission side) is.

What's the engine code on the Insight?

SVOboy 08-03-2009 12:53 AM

Yeah, I know what you're saying :).

This is the best info I could find on the insight engine:

Quote:

3-Mode VTEC (ECA)

Been developed for the Insight is Honda's first hybrid cars, DC to assist low-profile for mounting between a brushless motor and transmission, 995cc engine displacement of the cylinder and the three, tried a compact and lightweight.

VTEC-E, based on type and use the rocker arm ROLLERFORWARD, VTEC valve to narrow the angle due to the clip and roller pin coaxial switch, enabling rotation 3-Mode in the region to give rise to civil strong swirl did.

Other, reducing friction and is offset from the axis of the cylinder crankshaft, changes were made from lightweight materials fee.[1]

*
o ECA specifications
+ SOHC 12 valve VTEC PGM-FI
+ Displacement: 995cc
+ Inside diameter stroke: 72.0 81.5
+ Horsepower: 50kW (70PS) / 5,700 rpm
+ Torque: 92N m (9.4kg m) / 4,800 rpm (ZE1 Honda Insight coupe)

Christ 08-03-2009 01:05 AM

I'm guessing that was in Japanese, and you just hit it with something like BabelFish... which obviously didn't work out too well.

SVOboy 08-03-2009 01:08 AM

Nope, Wikipedia, but I assume that's how it got there to begin with.

So I guess the block says ECA?

Christ 08-03-2009 01:08 AM

None of the part numbers are jiving... for any Civic versus the INsight.

SVOboy 08-03-2009 01:09 AM

O crap. I wonder if the hub can be swapped...Or maybe I can just disassemble the axles and reassemble them since the shafts are the right length...

Christ 08-03-2009 01:15 AM

I'm going to start with telling you disassemble your old CRX axle and the Insight axle, and see if the Insight inboard CV joint will fit on the CRX's drive shaft splines.

If that doesn't work, I'd tell you to measure and press out the hub on the Insight knuckle, and do the same w/ the CRX knuckle. Worst case scenario, if the Insight's hub is bigger, you'll just have to take it to a machine shop and get it milled down to the same size as the CRX hub.

Else you could always see about just using the whole undercarriage from the Insight, as a bolt-in kinda thing... although it would still require modification, obviously.

SVOboy 08-03-2009 01:17 AM

I think we've reached the point where waiting and seeing will have to happen, unless someone's already done it and want's to chime in. :p

Christ 08-03-2009 01:20 AM

Majestic doesn't list bearing sizes or race diameters, and I don't think BDU would be able to get them based on OEM part number, but I'll call them tomorrow if I think about it.

I've got the part numbers of both the Insight and CRX bearings. If they have the same inner diameter, the hubs should fit each other, and you may have a way out.

The answer really could be as simple as a pair of custom bearings, though.


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