Geo Metro convertible / Kubota diesel engine conversion (driving!)
 

[Admin note: this thread split off from http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...metro-354.html ]

I am installing a Kubota 905E diesel of 900 cc's in my Metro Convertible. I used the stock transaxle location, a Swift flywheel and clutch, and a Kubota geared starter. Pretty straight forward so far. Needs exhaust, coolant lines and a few more electrical connections to run. The oil filter was in the way of the axle and soon I will modify the oil pan so it will not be the lowest point of the car. It sits closer to the right side frame rails that I would like, no room for vacuum pump pulley. I'll try it as is and see if the whole project was worthwhile. Then I may move the transaxle to the 4 cylinder location. We'll see. Tricks or tips, email me at [email]cbx_kim@HOTMael.com ,mispelled for the robots. For pics, how I did it.

VW parts place had some 3cylender Lupo size engines that were used on some sort of pump or something up for sale a while back, hard to get parts for if something broke down, but the engines are avalible in the USA at least.

kimer6 - are you keeping a build thread anywhere? I can tell you this is something people would love to see in a forum thread rather than email. It would generate a lot of interest.

kimer6 - keep us posted, ok? Pictures, no matter how awful would be nice. It's always good to have a few people checking out your progress and giving suggestions and asking questions. I had always thought the Kubota line would be a good choice to stick in a Metro. A mechanical diesel would be great - not too much in the way of electronics to worry about. I live out in the country with no emissions requirements, so I could probably get away with it - maybe some future time when the JDM gives out.

I agree with MetroMPG. You should start a new thread with your play by play. I would read this with interest. Good luck on your build!

PS Say hey to my dad. He's spending his retirement days in the po-po (Carson City).

Diesel Metro Po Po Unit
 

I used a Suzuki G13 flywheel, 7.5 inch clutch, pressure plate and got rid of the Kubota boat anchor flywheel. I bored the flywheel ID fit for a snug fit to the crankshaft. Bolt holes need to be egg shaped, no biggie as this is under 500 horsepower. Need to make a 1/2 inch 1/4 inch deep hole in the crank end to allow for the tranny input shaft clearance. The transaxle I have is from a 4 cylinder Metro and has the tall gears. All of the others 5 speeds will fit but have different final ratios. This is a 900cc 3 cylinder 24 hp diesel Kubota 905 engine.

The 1/2 inch thick steel plate adapter I made just so happens by pure accident to locate the trans/flywheel/engine block in the stock gas engine location. I used the Kubota geared starter and switched it to opposite side of the engine, turned it upside down to fit the transaxle. More majic...the starter depth engages perfectly as mounted on the unaltered engine face of the steel adapter plate.

2 of the 3 motor mounts needed no modifications. The engine motor mount was modified to bolt to the frame rail, used the stock rubber mount.

Much of the wiring on the Kubota will be patched into the stock wiring harness. There will be MINIMAL mods to the car such that I can put the gas engine back in within 4 hours. The testing will be done with a small diesel fuel tank inside the passenger floor, the stock gas tank will be left untouched for now.

I removed the A/C unit as there is no room for an extra pulley next to the frame. The Kubota is slightly longer than the gas 3 cylinder engine. It should be noted that the 1.3 liter 4 cylinder engine has the transaxle moved about 4inches toward the driver's side. Maybe I will move everything later but the 4 cylinder axles need to be used as they are different lengths than the 3 cylinder uses. Too late to start now.

The one picture shows a new Mitsubishi turbo. I have an intercooler as well and may mount these for testing especially if the engine is really gutless. We'll see. Unfortunately I have a real job training monkeys to tig weld and this project has been stalled for the last 6 weeks.

I started the diesel while coupled to the transaxle before dropping it in the frame. There was no unusual vibration. noise, and the odd couple Kubota starter/Suzuki flywheel sounded sweet.

I need to make the coolant lines, attach the heater lines, and make an exhaust system, rig the throttle cable, and rig fuel lines to get this on the road. SOON! (I hope). Keep ya posted...Kim.... dats me in da pic so don't send no kisses.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...cher/heart.gif your project! I've long wanted to do something similar. Cost of the diesel engine has been holding me back.

Yup, I lost quite a few eBay auctions looking for Kubota diesels in a year. I found a guy needing to move his diesel shop to Montana who had 3 of these. I bought a runner and one that he began disassembling....for $400. I started the good one several times on the garage floor. It still had the radiator and fan attached. I just got plain lucky! I went back a month ago to buy the 3rd one and his old place is vacant. This engine is just plain cute. I hope it pulls the car OK or I will make a diesel powered margarita mixer out of it....Kim

I don't think you should have posted those pictures. You are going to get real popular, real quick! What a steal for $400. A used JDM G10 goes for $395 right now plus shipping. I can understand a real job getting in the way of the fun stuff. The engine looks a tad tall, might have issues getting the hood back on? This is a cool project you are working on. Me likey!

Metro Diesel
 

The hood closes fine on the works, but I need to make a right angle discharge thermostat housing as a rubber hose will rub on the underside of the hood. The Metro motor mounts really have some travel and will isolate the vibration nicely.

Kane66, agree, I would love to have a purpose built automotive low emission turbo diesel with common rail injection, electronic injection, etc. Europe has many makes and models. But being a back yarder, I'm stuck with what I can scrape up....for peanuts. The Kubota governor is not suitable for automotive use either. I'll have to make do.

My real purpose for going diesel is that I can brew fuel myself should we get into a 1973 like crisis. I can't make gasoline. I can brew alcohol but in such times I would probably stay home and drink it. Biodiesel stores much safer than gas or alky. Yes VW has a long tranny.

Anybody see the new Pontiac G-6 trans? 6 speed, front wheel drive, new and cheap on eBay, ratios galore. Adapters aren't that hard to make at home......Kim

Diesel Metro Road Test
 

Got it on the road today for the first time. Took it to 55mph and it ran fine. Smokes a little but not like an old Mercedes. Need to shim up the front springs as the engine is heavier and the front end sags. The Kubota iol pan is also 4" from the ground so I limited my fun drive to 25 miles. It got me home OK...Kim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnAOF1bOSB8

video loads horrible slow the first time. Good for spotting the details, though.

Nothing more fun than that first test drive! :thumbup:

Dang, I'm at work so I can't see the video (censorship!). Maybe tonight.

That is way cool that you have her running on the road. Lots of pictures would be nice!

youtube link
 

I don't know why the link to youtube failed. Search Diesel Metro or Kimmer6 and it will come up.

The YouTube link worked for me.

Congrats on the first drive, and for seeing it through! "Diesel Metro" is one of those topics that comes up regularly (like "making my car into a hybrid") but nobody ever seems to seriously tackle, or see through to completion.

What's left to do until it's legal? Can't wait to read your fuel economy numbers.

Hey everyone: I've moved the posts relating to Kimer6's Kubota/Metro conversion into this new thread. This project definitely deserves the higher profile of a dedicated thread.

If you do this, you'll also need the 4-cyl shifter mechanism/stabilizer bar and transaxle mounts too (one is different; the other needs to be repositioned on the frame rail).

We discovered the same thing when preparing to install the electric motor in the ForkenSwift Metro. Fortunately we had the 1.3L parts car so we were able to swap all the 4-cyl tranny parts into the Metro to make room for the electric motor that was slightly longer than the 1.0L engine.

Thank you for your help, MetroMPG. I am a little ham fisted on the computer and still think "threads" are what holds a nut on a bolt. Maybe my posting skills will improve! Cheers...Kim

I also post on Teamswift.net If you like the Metro convertible removable hard top with sun roof.....you gotta go out and build one!

TeamSwift • View topic - Convertible hard top...probably.

Cheers...Kim

Man, you beat me to it. I have been wanting to drop in a 2 cylinder diesel engine that is equipped on a Rig Master unit into a Metro.

Great job on the car.

Nice work!

I noticed your custom hard top in the first test drive YouTube vid - nice work, man!

Hey...thank you! Do you know that I caused the price of gas to come down all by myself? Yup, bust my butt to make a 70mpg Diesel Metro when fuel is $5 a gallon, get it running, and then the price goes down to $3.45 a gallon! Need rain? I'll go out and wax the car!

I'd like some warmer weather - please go out & buy a new winter coat or something.

Clearly you've got OPEC on the run! They must be worried that diesel Metro conversions are poised to overtake hybrids in popularity, so they're monkeying with prices to shift the tipping point and stop the pending insanity.

Is that an official MPG result? Is it really 70?

Diesel Metro Driving Impressions 900cc Kubota
 

I put 90 miles on the car yesterday using back roads, freeway, and flat areas. If you want an honest impression of how gutless it really is, drive your Metro and shift at 2100 rpm. That is all of the power you have to play with.

The governor is also something I don't like. At lower engine speeds the engine responds with very little input to the gas pedal. Nice. But in 5th as you approach 65mph at 3600 rpm and and governed engine speed, the gas pedal has to be mashed to the floor at all times.

On mild country roads with low hills it is a pleasure to drive. This diesel loves the 5th gear and 45 to 55 mph. Very little input is needed on the throttle. The engine is quiet, lightly loaded, and and seems like it will run forever on minimal fuel.

First gear is useless above 10mph. Let out the clutch and it is time to shift to 2nd before the governor cuts in. 3rd and 4th are the only gears where it is possible to actually use the gears before somebody starts tailgating. It is interesting to note that you can push the clutch in with the gas pedal to the floor and it NEVER gets above 3600 rpm. So I tried going thru the gears while holding the pedal to the metal....it sounds, feels, acts like an automatic transmission!

OK, I thought I had a Swift transaxle with the taller gearing. Right now I suspect that I don't. Whatever I have is taller than a stock Metro convertible final drive. This engine could certainly use the tallest gears. It is nice to have torque over a broad range.

Black smoke was a huge problem. It came and went at all different operating speeds and loads. Horses at the side of the road started coughing when I went by. I suspect that the injector tips are coked up or worn out. I remember seeing the one exhaust port with a 1/16" thick coating of dry soot.
I even have a catalytic converter installed near the exhaust manifold and it still trails clouds of black smoke. I took the air filter out and it still smoked. I'll swap the injectors from the spare engine and get at the cause of the problem. The soot comes from incomplete combustion due to poor fuel atomization. Injectors!

Lastly, there is no throttle valve in a diesel. The intake manifold goes from air cleaner to intake valves with no restriction.So there is no vacuum to operate the power brakes. I thought I was clever and used the vacuum from the engine mechanical fuel pump suction port (the engine pump is no longer used) to give the power assist about 10 inches of mercury vacuum. Not enough! The brakes are not adequate for normal road driving. I need to add another vacuum source and possibly a storage tank.

Getting back in my stock gas Metro convertible was an amazing transition. It had all the power I could ever want! Keep ya posted....Kim

How's the timing?

Timing...I don't know. Looks like a small version of the old style Caterpiller pump, part of the block and not removable, done with shims? I need a book!

If the problem is just the injector nozzles you could give Liqui Moly Diesel Purge a shot. Lots of people run it straight at the fuel filter in TDIs to clean sooted injectors.

You can buy it from a TDI community trusted vendor.

Thanks for the detailed update. I remain impressed.

And I completely understand the transition back to the gas car - I just ran errands this morning in the electric, with ~20 peak hp, and more like ~14 usable hp. (I pulled over several times to let cars pass me.)

Might be worth heading over to bennelson's Electro Metro build thread and see what he did for brakes in his EV (electric vac pump - though I'm sure you already have something in mind).

I hope you don't mind kimer6, but I posted this on Geo Metro Forum with links to ecomodder and this thread. This is very impressive and I look forward to all updates on this. I applaud your efforts.

Absolutely Awesome, I have had thoughts of doing something like this but in another body with Metro drivetrain. I just don't have the funds right now. Keep us posted and can't wait to see the mileage figures.

Liqui Moly for diesels
 

Thank you...for 9 bucks I'll give it a try. Can't hurt to test it.....maybe I'll stumble onto another use! Like the time I was using Berryman B-12 Chemtool on motorbike carbs and got some on the wart I had on my finger for 30+ years. I scraped it and it was bleeding. When the B-12 hit it, I almost launched like the Space Shuttle it hurt so bad. Ha ha, wart removed forever!

Kim,
Great job, hats off to you. I am wondering if you have any preliminary fuel economy data for this arrangement yet.
Jason

Thanks much! But something has gone awfully wrong and one cylinder is dead. It was black smoking terribly the other day and tonight I changed a suspect injector, took it for a ride and knock knock crack crack crack....to top it off the headlight fuse blew (nothing new here, I can't find the short though) on a dark road 2 miles from home. We will see. I have a spare non running engine to rob parts from.

In 100 miles so far it used 1/8 tank of fuel down from the 3/4 mark. It also idled about 5 hours on a quart of fuel while I got the temp sensor and cooling fan circuit figuerd out. It was sucking out of a half full plastic jug so I knew how much was in there. I will also set this up so I have a calibrated gallon fuel jug hung up inside the car and see how many miles it takes to drain.

I can't wait to test it but it has to be running right first!

I flushed out the gas tank several times and hope I did not get any lingering gas in the system. I hear that it is no good for the pump. injectors, engine. Maybe I worry too much and I replaced the wrong injector...

I hope it is nothing serious.

...That makes 2 of us......!!!!! I'll find out in the morning.

The headlight issue may be down at the fusebox where the wiring connector melts.

Would this be the same inaccessable fuse box that melted the terminal to the fuel pump relay 200 miles from home? Why would the headlights go out when I was doing 50mph in a hard turn on a country road with no street lights, no gaurd rails and a 75 foot dropoff on the right? How come I'm an EcoModding "Lurker " when a more suitable description would be window peeper/trenchcoat flasher? I'm stumped.

I'm not sure how similar a kubota pump is to a VW pump, but I modified my governor on my Jetta. It gave me full throttle control through the entire rpm range. There is a write up on it over at the VW GTD forums

Awesome.

I've seen a guy who tucked a single-cylinder Changfa diesel into a Metro. 10 romping stomping horsepower, WOOHOO! It tops out at about 50mph and has one end of the engine sticking out through a hole in the hood, but it just goes to show that 200hp isn't necessary if you're just trying to get somewhere.

Jetta injection pump
 

Thanks for the info....now whose dumb idea was it to put a tractor engine in a car? I kind of knew the Kubota governor was not suited to road use. After looking at the cutaways you sent, I see that the VW pump has variable injection timing. I can't find a drawing for Kubota. But the governor/pump is part of the engine casting and there is almost no chance of replacing it with an automotive pump. Kubota timing is adjusted by shims. I don't think it has speed sensitive timing. Like Briggs&Stratton has fixed spark timing. OK for a lawnmower.....