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-   -   Got it in car, having trouble (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/got-car-having-trouble-3229.html)

accordaffair 06-20-2008 05:39 PM

Got it in car, having trouble
 
Hey all, new member, first post.

I got my mpguino assembled and running, and today I got it wired into the car, but it's not working. It stays at zero like it would with no input.

I'm wondering if the resistance inline is too high.

With the key on, and engine off (KOEO) the vss sends .17v
KOEO injector 1 sends 11.32 volts

With the Key on engine running (KOER) the injector fluctuates between 13.5 and 13.65 volts
The VSS still sends .17 because its not moving

Now where those leads meet the circuit board the readings are lower of course

KOEO vss provides 0.0 volts, sometimes barely giving 0.1
KOEO inj provides .56 v

KOER vss gives .01 volts and inj gives .56-.57v

This is installed in a 93 honda accord ex, I did some rudimentary math and changed my code to

vss - 4104
966488100 microsec/gallon
tanksize 17000

using v0.63

The numbers I will change when I get some readings but I can't get that far yet. Any suggestions?

dcb 06-20-2008 06:33 PM

take a look at the "Instant Raw Data screen" whilst toodling around, uS should be proportional to injector duty cycle, IC should be porportional to RPM, and VC should be porportional to the vehicle speed.

If none of those show anything then describe where you tapped the injector and the vss? What color is the vss wire and what color is the injector wire?

accordaffair 06-20-2008 06:43 PM

all screens show nothing but zeroes, as if I never hooked them up

vss I tapped into pin b10 by the ecu, injector 1 I used a brown wire with I think red dots, pin A1. I plotted these pins using my helms repair manual. I'm almost 100% certain I'm using the correct pins, BUT I should be using the positive leads for both of these, correct?

As an aside, the power plug the guino comes with doesn't seem to do squat, I have to wire up to VIN and GROUND, on the board for it to work, does that sound right? I wired both at the same time, just to be sure

I'm using rj45 ports and a length of cat5 to run the signal from the ecu area to the guino

I'm off to work, I'll be back later tonight

Whoops 06-20-2008 07:04 PM

I don't know about the VSS, but on the injector, it runs off of what you might call negative logic. The power to the injector is supplied whenever the fuel relay turns on. The ecu provides a signal which grounds the other side of the injector when it turns the relay on.

dcb 06-20-2008 07:27 PM

For VSS, if you can find a picture of the ECU plug online I might be able to point out the speed signal, my cryptic docs indicate it should be Pin 8 on a 24 pin connector, maybe yellow/white, or orange, or yellow/blue?

For the injector, you unplug an injector and turn on the ignition (not the engine) and use the injector wire that DOESN'T have 12 volts on it.

accordaffair 06-20-2008 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whoops (Post 36848)
I don't know about the VSS, but on the injector, it runs off of what you might call negative logic. The power to the injector is supplied whenever the fuel relay turns on. The ecu provides a signal which grounds the other side of the injector when it turns the relay on.

So should I be running a ground? what completes the circuit, ground to ground? I'm not proficient in electronics, I have an amateur knowledge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcb (Post 36856)
For VSS, if you can find a picture of the ECU plug online I might be able to point out the speed signal, my cryptic docs indicate it should be Pin 8 on a 24 pin connector, maybe yellow/white, or orange, or yellow/blue?

For the injector, you unplug an injector and turn on the ignition (not the engine) and use the injector wire that DOESN'T have 12 volts on it.

VSS, it was a bright orange wire

injector, to test my manual says use a1 for injector 1 and a23 for ground. But using a23 would not give off a signal just a ground? Am I wrong?

It does say to measure for battery voltage so it is the one putting out "12v"

I do use an injector resistor in this car if that makes a difference

This pic is for an integra but it should be exactly the same as the OBD1 accords
http://www.josebellas.com/images/howto/obd1pinout.jpg
http://www.josebellas.com/images/howto/obd1pins02.jpg

can't find a pinout, but I'll keep looking

*EDIT*found one
http://www.superhonda.com/forum/f55/...inouts-217405/

accordaffair 06-20-2008 11:25 PM

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l3.../injectors.jpg

Don't know if this helps

dcb 06-20-2008 11:45 PM

Are you using B10 for the vss?

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/r...nda_Accord.php

accordaffair 06-20-2008 11:52 PM

yup

dcb 06-20-2008 11:56 PM

Can you rig up some alligator clips or test leads and and watch the voltage on b10 as the car rolls slowly?

P.S. the ECU will ground out the other side of the injector, you want to be tapped into the injector line that leads to the ECU, not the one that leads to the resistor.

accordaffair 06-21-2008 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcb (Post 36917)
Can you rig up some alligator clips or test leads and and watch the voltage on b10 as the car rolls slowly?

P.S. the ECU will ground out the other side of the injector, you want to be tapped into the injector line that leads to the ECU, not the one that leads to the resistor.

sure I can do that, but I can tell you according to the manual that it will pulse 0v and 12v.

On the injectors, the way I see it, power comes from the relay, passes through the resistor, then to the injectors, which are ground out by the ecu, is that right?

And I've soldered the connections about an inch from the ecu plugs, so I didn't run any into the engine bay. I want to use the shortest wires possible to hopefully avoid the mass of electrical interference that passes through a car. I also twisted the wire pair, and they lead to the guino using cat5

dcb 06-21-2008 12:23 AM

Ok, well see if you can get it to stop on 12 volts with the ignition on by rolling the car back and forth by foot a little, then test it at every point on down the line till you dont see any voltage. I.e. test where the vss wire goes into your board, test one side of the vss 100k resistor, test the other side of the vss resistor, then test pin 14 (analog 0). analog 0 shouldn't be more than 5 ish, if it is less and b10 is at 12 then it is a wiring/build oops of some sort.

accordaffair 06-21-2008 12:40 AM

Can do, and will do, thanks for the help

accordaffair 06-21-2008 03:04 PM

Ok, while I was getting it set back up today, I pulled on the vss resistor and it came loose so I figured there was a shoddy solder on the point. Re-soldered it, good this time, and I get a more consistent signal.

I put the wheel in the air, and turned it until it gave me battery voltage.

Measuring from my wire which leads to the ecu, I get 11.37v, measuring at pin 0 gives me .58v

I also checked the Injector readings, and I get 11.87 at my wire, and .56 at pins 2/3

However I still don't get readings on the guino. I took it for a drive around the block, about 1/4 mile, about 4 minutes. Instant readings still all read 000.00, and I never got anything but 0's. I scrolled through the other screens, but they all read 0.

Status showed -
4 minutes
C% 52.16
Free Mem- 602.00

I also probed an injector and found that both leads provide 12v

So stuck again :(

dcb 06-21-2008 03:38 PM

Are your zeners put in the right direction?

accordaffair 06-21-2008 03:50 PM

That could be it, the black band points away from the incoming signal (vss/INJ) and towards the black ground

This looks wrong according to your schematic but when I assembled the board they had the black band going opposite of the way I thought it should go and therefore I felt I was backwards. Perhaps that is also why my board doesn't use the power plug it came with. I'll flip them round

accordaffair 06-22-2008 12:17 AM

I have good news! The diode flip fixed it!

Bad news is it worked while I drove to work for the first time but when I got off work it only came up with a lit LCD, no characters displayed.

While it was working the readings were pretty far out, I have to fiddle and adjust.

I just got home and I resent the code and it's working now, don't know why it quit before.

Also while I was trying to extract and flip the diode on my board I pulled one of it's legs off :(

So I may need to get a new diode if I can't save this one.

But I have some questions.

1. Is it safe to use VIN and ground on the board instead of the power plug lead on the board? Is it the same?

2. I have some numbers that I know are correct when it comes to the car. Can you guys help me translate that for the code?

-The manual states that the vss spins 1026/min at 60 mph
-My injectors flow at 235 cc/min

So I figure I have to convert cc/min to Gal/uS, so I figured 3,784 ml to a gallon 3,784/236=16.1021
60,000,000uS per minute
60,000,000x16.1021=966,126,000uS

Now I tried 4104 for my VSS and it was approximately twice as fast as actual, so I figured lower it to 2052. I'm gonna try that tomorrow.

But my injector rate sounds much higher than the saturn number of 404409714, that's less than half on a car that is somewhat similiar..

Also, a question related to the mpguino function/design..

How can we get it to turn off but retain its numbers, so it doesn't start fresh each time? Leaving it on all the time isn't really an option for me.

dcb 06-22-2008 12:41 AM

Very good :thumbup:

re: LCD watch how you hook up the power, make sure you are connected to battery power, not ignition, also be very deliberate when connecting it as it can get amnesia if the initial power hookup (or ignition switch bouncing) is too jittery. Auto turn off is in the works, I just have to decide on a solution I like. Use the middle button to turn off the LED backlight for now if you are worried about the drain.

re: vss, I've seen it listed as 4102 pulses per mile, but I think we are counting the rising edge and falling edge of the pulse I think so you need to try 8204. (more = slower)

re: injector, higher microsecondsPerGallon means better displayed fuel efficiency. Once you get the speed/distance dialed in take a look at your mpg readings and modify microsecondsPerGallon by the percentage you think it is off for an initial setup. Eventually (we are still bleeding edge here remember) we will get to a point where you can run a whole tank through and see how close your guess is.

re: vin vs ground, put your ohm meter leads on them and see if there is 0 ohms between them. If so then they be the same.

accordaffair 06-22-2008 01:00 AM

I forgot about the lcd brightness, that seems reasonable for now.

Ok, I'll double the vss instead of halve

Luckily I was able to ghetto rig my on-board diode into working so I'll see how long it lasts, but now I can run off the on-board power plug

I'm using a constant 12v power source in the car, there are three extras available in the drivers side under-dash fuse box. One provides 12v only with the accesories, one provides 12v when the headlights are on, and one provides a constant 12v.

I just need to solder the points instead of using twisted wire connections like I was before (since it was going in and out of the car)

I hope to get some better readings tomorrow

accordaffair 06-22-2008 09:36 PM

I'm gonna be away from my car for a while, and I won't be able to make any advancements for a couple weeks.

I did get a chance to fiddle around today. Speed and distance is pretty spot on at around 40-50 mph, but it gets worse at lower speeds. At 20 it will think you're doing 28. So I'm not quite sure what to make of that.

Fuel efficiency I couldn't get going though. Instant was always reading 99999, or 0 (stopped)

current climbed, starting at around 11 which was already wrong, but it continued to climb as I drove, after about 8 minutes it thought I was doing 800 mpg :) I assume it's simply because my injector rate was way off. I kept cutting it down, first in half, then by 5.5, then by 100, but I never escaped the all 9's. More time is needed. ;)


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