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Got me an Insight...
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Links (to threads with pics)
*First round of fixes: Cabin filter and Grounds replacements *EGR Plate Cleanup and AC Insulation *Window switch replacement, Trip buttons fix, electronic trunk release fix, and Front Marker LED swap, Front markers upgraded LEDS, LED Headlights *Grid Charger build and Front Brakes *Electronic Lock Mechanism Fix *Removing the EPS motor and pinion gear *Clutch fluid replacement *Motor Mount, Interior mirror, and Block heater *Lower Grill Block V1.0, V1.1, V1.2, V1.3 *Upper Grill Block V1.0 *Front Speaker Replacement, Stop door rattle *Rear wiper removal/blank *Clutch/Brake switch V1.0 *Subwoofer Box Template, Sketchup Design, Built part 1, Build part 2 *Sealing up the roof *12v Trickle Charger install and first shot at WAI *Rear turn LEDs *Oil pan heater and belly pan part 1, part 2, Warmup Graph 1 *LED Headlights *P&P FAS system *Advanced Aerodynamics (remove squirters, antenna, passenger mirror mount, etc.) *Meanwell DC converter - Weight Reduction G-Doc (Accurate weights of various things) - To Do List: *Solar powered cabin cooling fan setup (in progress) *Finish trunk from IMA removal (in progress) *Sound deaden/absorption/isolation for reduced road noise (in progress) *Complete underbody panels *Fix rear window defrosters *Polish headlight plastics *3D print and install hot/cold air intake changer *3D print and install adjustable grill block *3D print and install new mirror blocks *Design and 3D print cup holder/pocket around hand break *Design and 3D print extended real spoiler *Design and 3D print dash pods for mid and tweet component, design crossover *Arduino/Pi automation for intake temp and grill block *Experiment with evaporation cooling Quote:
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It's always cool to see another Insight owner here. There are some helpful threads specific to G1 Insights here.
Enjoy! My Insights have been the most fun I've had driving in years |
Sounds like yours has all of the typical problems, and most of them are easy fixes. You can see solutions to them in my build thread, linked in my signature. ;)
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Another one set to drop me down on the Top Hybrid MPG list... ;)
Congrats! (subscribed:)) |
Woohoo, congrats. Citrus yellow even. I really like that color.
I'm jealous. :p |
Some immediate suggestions:
-There are no aftermarket motor mounts for this car. You likely only need the rear, but the others might be cracked, if not broken. The rear is around $100 from G1parts, which is where I like to shop for original equipment. Some people repair their mounts by filling them with silicone, but you end up with more vibration. -The trunk latch has two common problems: 1) If it doesn't unlock with the FOB or with the lock switch, it's because you have a minor roof leak at the passenger B pillar. There's a connector behind the plastic interior panel that corrodes. This can cause either no signal to the trunk latch actuator, or no power to it. The fix for this is to pull the panel off (takes 90 seconds) and clean the contacts, then put some dielectric grease on to prevent it from corroding again. 2) The trunk latch actuator has failed. If you press the button and hear a whirring sound, this means the plastic gear inside it has broken, and you'll need to replace it. There are inexpensive aftermarket options for this. -There are plans for a super cheap grid charger in my build thread. You can probably get a few more years out of a weak battery with my $30 charger. |
Congrats!
Best colour, too. I drove my 2000 for much of the time with the hybrid functions disabled. I wouldn't necessarily spring for a replacement pack before trying the trickle charger, or without IMA at all. Also: first mods should be the engine kill switch (yes, it has autostop, but it doesn't do it nearly as early/often as possible) and the clutch switch (which enables you to control when you get assist). Fun car! I was just saying to Tim the other day I was having a hard time deciding whether I had more fun driving the Insight or the Prius. Both are awesome geek's cars. PS: my related threads... |
Thanx gang! It's definitely exciting and I believe all my little issues will be easy fixes. I've lived with FAR more problems with my Neon for years now, so I think I can have patience for this and hopefully get them all up to snuff.
Ecky, I've browsed through your entire thread and definitely going to steal... errr... be inspired by some of your work! :) The trunk hatch definitely has a motor moving, but no release (but key works fine) so it is definitely the common issue many seem to have and I've already paypal'd the guy on the other forums for a replacement part (the 3D printed one). Motor mount wise, I'll be (hopefully) doing a full inspection on everything this weekend and will find what does or does not look good. Given that, I've repaired my Neon mounts 2 different ways now... 1. Hot Glue fill (lasts between months and ~4 years) 2. Urethane fill (I think I'm 7-10 years now on some and still going?!). Both solutions will definitely add vibration, so not sure how bad in this car... if too bad, then a replacement may be necessity. MetroMPG, I remember when I did key off-on for a year or so in my Neon before I installed the kill switch. It made such a night and day difference in usability that it will undoubtedly be done in this car very soon. I haven't looked much into the clutch switch, so I'll need to research that one more, but sounds like it has some real value. I've looked into the DIY repairs and diagnostics on the battery pack and, though it seems easy enough, I really just want a set it and forget it for the battery pack for now. Eventually, do a grid charger to keep things in check, but the sooner I get this car to a 100% (or close to), the better. I hate to spend the money, but if I don't do it this way, I probably won't do it at all. Having driven a working IMA system, I really do want it. To me, it's worth the ~$2100 to just get it done and over with. (I'm really cheap and it's hard for me to say that, but my time/patience lately is just too low). On top of that, seems that this has been sitting in a garage for years now with no starts, plus being 16 years old... what are the odds these cells can come back to life? Who knows, I got a few weeks until I have to make a decision anyways. I guess one thing I didn't see is: If I find a completely dead stick, where do you get a replacement for just that stick? (Edit: Answer: ecomodder.com/forum/278817-post39.html ) Plenty of research to be had, that's for sure. |
You'd be surprised at how much capacity can be lost by a particularly bad imbalance, but a replacement certainly can't hurt. If I were in the market to replace my pack right now though (which I'm not - the pack is still very strong despite being 16 years old), I'd probably wait until this fall to see how the lithium replacement being developed over at Insight Central turns out. It would be nice to have hours of assist and the ability to safely top it off at home every night, rather than the ~10-15 minutes of assist a strong, new pack can deliver.
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Idaho decided to have a $81.25 tax for hybrids... doh! Ah well... worth it.
Anywho, I'll look more into attempting to limp my battery along in the mean time. Just being very impatient :) Something I just noticed: Once i hit around 4K RPM, the battery AND brake light come on for about 30 seconds, then go off. Seems to be only when I hit higher RPM... not sure on that one. Has a new 12v battery and seems fine. Just hoping that not a detonation warning or anything. (Edit: Man I'm getting good at Google-ing! lol... Here's the issue it seems: http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/248031-post8.html) |
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I believe I have read the magnesium oil pan is prone to stripping, so everyone recommends a quick valve.
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Ran the blink codes now that it's gotten a few miles on it... CEL - 67, 69 IMA - 58, 66, 78 EPS - 16, 23 ABS - 61 Seems I need to look into the cat... that's concerning. I kinda figured the power steering wasn't working quite right, but I'm used to my Neon with none, so it hasn't been a big issue. I also noticed that the ground straps are looking pretty beat. About 50% of the cable is in tact on the terminal ends, so I'll be rebuilding them tomorrow. Finally, I figured I'd check the internal air box. I had to look up directions on this as I hit a chunk of plastic attached to the dash and it seemed it had marks to cut it out... 180k miles and the airbox filter was never changed! Oh man, so much stuff was packed in that filter. Both sides were black. Dead bugs and anything that can float in the air or grow on a tree was pretty much stuffed in the filter veins! HA! |
Nod, some of those trouble codes might be due to your ground strap issues. I would check both and make sure both ground straps are replaced, just for good measure.
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Beats me why anyone would grind the straps but it is a common issue nowadays with first gens. Mind you, there are four of them. I won't post a link cause you are good with Google but you can find a good reference at the IC stickies. |
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Okay, I did post a link after all :) |
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How prone to failure are the other ones.
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11 Attachment(s)
First of all, here is the air filter difference, lol...
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...7&d=1559066314 Here's the stock grounds... https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...8&d=1559066325 Yeah, pretty bad... https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...9&d=1559066379 Paint isn't a good conductor, so off it goes! https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...0&d=1559066391 I used some 4-awg Stinger RPM series I had laying around from my stereo days. Bought the only crimps I could find for them and pounded them until they were in there solid... https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1559066405 Installed! (With Noalox, since mixing metals...) https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...2&d=1559066417 The EPS wire actually looked good. I tested for resistance and my meter couldn't find any, so I decided to reuse it for now. I did sand down to bare metal on the chassis, though, for good measures. https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...3&d=1559066427 https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...4&d=1559066447 I then went to the battery ground... pretty critical this guy is in good shape. https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...5&d=1559066458 I bought a clamp-and-cable combo for $5, but it was definitely longer than the stock one... that's OK, I was planning to ground the battery directly to the engine anyways, so I built a 4-awg (with smaller ring terminals this time... didn't realize I bought such large ones on the engine to chassis grounds). Wouldn't have fit on the battery terminal otherwise. I wanted to do the engine ground directly to the head, but couldn't find a good reliable way to do so, but it's easy enough to change later. There was a large bolt hold above the O2 sensor connection mount (that also had some grounds going to it), but couldn't find a bolt to fit it. Might have stuck out too far anyways. https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...6&d=1559066471 Finally, confirmed the engine torque mount was done for. Figured, taking off in 1st feels pretty "long" compared to what it should and after shifting as well. Dealt with it in my Neon by filling mounts with urethane. I used the McMaster-Carr stuff before, but I'm going to try the 3M Window Weld this go-around. It's around $28 at the local auto parts store and should be a little easier to apply than the McMaster-Carr stuff. https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...7&d=1559066482 That pretty much wraps up today. Oh, I also found the oil was about a quart too high (like 1/2" higher than the 2nd hole on the dipstick!) so I uncorked and let some drain out. Seems to be just below that hole now. Important question!: I went to pull the plugs out because I bought some new ones. I went for the center plug first and it was really resistant the whole way out. Towards the end, though, it got REALLY hard to turn out. I got scared and put it back (I've stripped out a plug head on an old Neon and it was a nightmare to deal with). Anybody experience this before? My only guess is the threads stuck in the combustion chamber a bit and caught some carbon build up. Seafoam through the intake and let sit? Try it on a warm engine?! Just looking for some advice. Never had plugs turn ~10 times and only get harder to pull out before! |
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#2. You are pretty dedicated to that plug now, I recommend filling the spark plug hole with WD-40 and letting it sit overnight, but that many turns probably means the previous owner cross-threaded, and stripped the spark plug hole out. If it DOES break lose, and the cylinder does fill with WD-40, no biggie, just turn the engine over with no spark plug in it and blow all of it out. If you do snap the plug, or it rips all the threads out... Can't help you there. The car probably isn't going to run right now that the spark plug isn't clocked correctly anyway. But at least it runs. If the spark plug does come out with no damage (let's hope!) then PLEASE use anti-sieze on the new spark plugs and torque to 17ft lbs!!! Do NOT 'guess' with tightness, and do NOT go in dry. The hole will not like getting penetrated dry. |
Balto gives good advice on the plugs. Something else you may not know: The Insight needs spark plugs that are specific to Insights; and they're indexed to each cylinder. This helps it reach AFRs as lean as 25:1. You need to make sure that you look at the stamp on the cylinder head next to each plug and the correctly indexed plug, or it won't run well, especially in lean burn. The plugs can be A, B, C or D, and must be torqued exactly to spec.
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Good news! I got the spark plug holes sprayed with some PB Blaster, let them soak for an hour, then came back and pulled 1 out, fairly easily. The middle one that I worked on yesterday was still a little sticky, so I put it back in (letting the penetration oil hit those threads, then put those threads back in) and pulled it right out. Finally, the last one was the worst for sure. It took several in-and-out attempts, but it came out. Seems these were put in dry. I put an even coat of anti-seize on the threads and they went in like I would expect on a spark plug. One thing I didn't realize is how long these threads are.... about 50% longer than on my Neon! No wonder it felt like they weren't coming out at all!
I bought AutoLite Iridium XPs (was pretty much all they had at the local stores...) and is what was in the car already as well. (Model XP5325). I didn't see any index markers, but it was easy to see which end is open and find a marker on my extension to monitor the orientation of that open spark. Seems these, at hand tight, don't all match. I see "B" stamped into the head on all 3 spots. So I'll research and see what my options are here. I also pulled the intake manifold and got cleaning on the EGR plate. Definitely gunky, but not 100% plugged, it seems. A good cleaning was due regardless. I pulled the brake fluid out of the clutch reservoir, it was black as used oil. Will be bleeding that out today, as well as the brakes. Front brake pads seems close to done and the rotors are definitely going to need replaced. Haven't touched the back wheels yet, so that remains to be seen. Guess i'll skip on the motor mount fill... that was one thing I like about this car: Quiet operation. I was curious how bad it would be, but I'll take your words on it. What did you fill that mount with when you did it (and what hardness)? |
The mount tends to fail because it's so thin, but Honda did that because this is a 3 cylinder with no balance shaft; it vibrates a lot.
This is the spark plug you want: SPARK PLUG B (ILZFR5A11) (STAMP B) (NGK) for 2000 Honda INSIGHT|12291-PHM-A01 The rotors on mine were starting to pulse when stopping, so I get a set of Rock Auto special $10 rotors, and couldn't be happier. |
OK, I'll have to order those (spendy!) plugs when I order the window switch (spendy as well!). The rotors feel fine on the brakes, but when I pulled the calipar off, I had a hard time because of the groove left in the outside of the rotor just outside of the brake pads.
Has anybody made an aftermarket motor mount that is larger with more material to last longer? |
I couldn't find any aftermarket mounts, unfortunately, and the mounts are somewhat spendy too. However, mine hasn't really needed anything else, so I consider it money spent on a deserving car.
You might potentially partially fill your current mount, leaving it room to flex still but repairing the cracks, but be aware that if you have more or stiffer material in the mount, you're going to transmit more of the engine's vibrations. |
Here's my EGR plate...
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...410_054000.jpg Cleaned up! Not as good as it could be, but... good enough. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...410_100622.jpg I'm sure it will be frowned upon, but since I didn't have another gasket, I cleaned up the original one very well and used copper gasket spray on it. Seems to have worked OK, no noticeable vacuum leaks since reinstalling. Also, I insulated from compressor to firewall for the AC. Haven't had AC in a car in years, so figured I wanted it to be as efficient as possible! https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...410_115037.jpg Well, I got an order in for 3 spark plugs, the rear mount, and the window switch. Hey, question for all the Insight drivers: What's your style? Pulse and Glide? Shift points? Just general details on your day to day drive would be nice. :) |
When accelerating, I like to keep the engine between 1750 and 2250rpm, and accelerate at around 80% load (which is around the point which assist begins), because that's the range where the engine is most efficient:
http://i.imgur.com/ADlajSq.jpg If this car didn't have lean burn, pulse and glide would provide a lot more benefit over cruising than it does. Pulse and glide at peak BSFC is still the most efficient way to drive, but lean burn allows the Insight to cruise at a steady speed with a lot less parasitic loss. |
So, what's this one all about then? Saws CVT and no assist... but still the same engine...
http://ecomodder.com/wiki/images/thu..._1.0l_bsfc.jpg The other question I had is that I keep seeing different design plans for the grid charger. Is there a recommendation at this point? Seems some of the links are old and dead. Just curious. |
I've seen that BSFC chart as well (have it in my Google Drive Insight folder, even) and I couldn't tell you which one is right, but the one I posted follows the more typical pattern for small engines.
Bear in mind that anything below 230-240 is more efficient than most other (non-diesel) engines you can buy. The basic design of a grid charger is that you want an isolated fixed current power source of 300mw or less that can provide at least the maximum voltage that the battery will have (which is around 175v), a 12v source to run the cooling fan, and a diode to prevent current from flowing backward. Two cheap 90v eBay LED drivers in series works great for this, or three 60v. http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...d-29288-8.html I believe this would work: 2 Pcs AC85 265V 30 90V 300mA Power Supply Driver Adapter for 18 25X1W LED Light | eBay "Meanwell" is also a fairly trusted brand, if you'd prefer. |
Took a while but I found my Neon liked shifting by 2.5K RPM. Sounds like this 1.0L half-ling isn't far from the same. So I'll give that a try!
Yeah sounds simple enough to make and install. Just wasn't sure if component choices have changed or been redefined over the years. I'll check out Amazon... 2 day shipping VS 2+ week shipping from some of those ebay auctions... :) I have plenty of 12v power supplies laying around I can use (wall warts, computer supplies, etc.) doesn't seem like that fan is gonna need many amps. Thanks for all the help. Edit: OK ebay ones it is... hard to find otherwise, unless one wants to throw out some serious bucks! ah well... |
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So, last night... driving this car past my 100 mile mark since ownership. I go to accelerate from a stop and notice my power is pretty lacking... Starting to get dark, so once I get to speed, I notice that my display went dim to the point where it wasn't even really on once I got the headlights on! Oh my... 12v not staying charged it seems. I limped it home and checked the voltage... 10.0v at the battery! Let it charge all night and did a bit of research. Turns out, no IMA charging, no 12v charging! Good to know!
So, I have 2 options: Bypass the BCM, or get the IMA going. I should have what I need to build a grid charger this weekend, hopefully will get to slap it on and start experimenting with that. If not, bypass for now and work on it another day. In other news, I had all the tint pulled (as it was damaged and starting to bubble a bit) and had 38% ceramic tint applied all around (well, minus the drivers window. Can't roll it down until the switch comes in!) The very rear glass is factory tinted, so he did a clear ceramic film on it. It's not as dark as it was, but keeps the fuzz off my tail! (35% is darkest you can go around these parts) I'll get pics of said tint when I get a chance. |
Oddly: the DC-DC in my Insight kept the 12v battery charged even with the IMA physically switched off (via the large switch on top of the pack)
But I've read other people experiencing the same thing as you. |
I'm guessing it depends on the year. Seems like a flaw that needed addressed, so probably fixed in later models! I guess I'm driving "Alternatorless" even more-so for now. Fuel savings, right?! :)
I ordered a 12v cig plug-in adapter for monitoring (plus, has 2 USB chargers on it, so... why not?) http://www.amazon.com/HappyPrimeDay-...ilpage_o00_s00 |
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5 Attachment(s)
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...8&d=1559068228
Pile O parts came in! https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...9&d=1559068242 Window switch comparison. Odd the color is different, but if it works, I really couldn't care less! https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...0&d=1559068254 Here's after changing out the switches to the dash brightness, trip, and MPH/KPH buttons. It works now! Woot. https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1559068266 3D Printed hatch latch thing... got it replaced, now the trunk opens with only one hand! Ahhhh, what a feeling. https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...2&d=1559068291 Cheap LED replacement on the left, original bulb on the right. Brightness is pretty comparable... LED may be a touch brigher. Regardless, consumes less power and should (hopefully) last a long time. So, here's some updates... -Drivers window still does not roll down, motor seems shot. Replacement ordered. (I'm around $460 now trying to get my drivers window to roll down... doh!) -12v charging seems to happen for a bit on a first start when it's cold, reading 13.6v, but then a few miles down the road, battery and brake light come on and it drops 12.2v or lower. -According to the gauge, this tank I bought the car with is nearly done at around 59MPG. I'm thinking I'm not getting into lean burn properly. Tires, belly pan issues... could be a few things. Will look into this more. -Started some weight reduction... --Steel plate and screw under the steering column (guessing it's there to prevent damage to the plastic column if hit hard enough) --Engine cover and bolts --2x trunk D ring things with bolts --1x other hook looking thing in drunk with bolt and cover --Rear carpet cover Not a ton of weight, but losing 100 lbs is simply removing 1600 ounces! :) -Starting on my grid charger. Just waiting for parts to come in. Hoping to get some life out of this battery. About to go on vacation in the Red Neon. Once I get back, I'll start hammering away at this beast some more. |
Surprisingly (fortunately), my 2000 had none of the electrical switch/button gremlins.
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Went to a scale before my first fillup... with 2 bars on the tank left, stock everything, it weighed in at 1860lbs. Put 9.598 gallons from the gas station a few miles down the road right after.
Once you hit 1 bar and the gas light comes on, how much fuel do you have left? I read it's a 10 gallon tank, but seems like it might hold a bit more. I also metered the LEDs I put in for the license plate light, map, dome, and front markers to compare to the stock bulbs. It's basically 5w vs 1.15w each. So one weird issue I've found: The drivers power door lock always works fine. The passenger door and hatch, however, don't always lock or unlock. In fact, it seems to work only once after about 10-30 minutes. After that, they try, but have little power. I pulled the trunk latch all apart and checked out the motor to it. Spins all the way the first time, then each click gets worse. I checked all the connections back there and also redid the connection in the passenger B panel (1 pin was fairly corroded, 1 was mildly, so soldered new wire to both.) Any ideas? |
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