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Vman455 11-04-2015 12:51 PM

Guesses on Cd?
 
The Nissan Titan "Triple Nickel" land speed racer, unveiled today at SEMA:

http://duaj5928mzrrb.cloudfront.net/...42-768x432.jpg

Lowered, salt-scraping air dam, solid wheel covers, and looks like a full bed cover.

http://duaj5928mzrrb.cloudfront.net/...82-768x432.jpg

http://duaj5928mzrrb.cloudfront.net/...46-768x432.jpg

kach22i 11-04-2015 01:43 PM

The extended cab with wind tunnel tested roof arc might make the need for a roof wing or aero-shell less critical. However, they seem to be missing out on a lot by preserving the typical pick-up truck looks.

A Practical Guide to Pickup Truck Aero-mods
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media...vzhmuu6xes.jpg

To make an accurate guess, look at another similar truck.

I could not find a Cd number for the two examples I looked into.

I mean they didn't even do a grille block and side skirts like this Ford below.

http://www.trucktrend.com/cool-truck...f250-scorpion/
http://image.trucktrend.com/f/346142...ind_tunnel.jpg
Quote:

The truck’s final evaluation was done at Lockheed Martin’s 200-mph wind tunnel in Smyrna, Georgia, before the Super Duty was shipped to Bonneville.

darcane 11-04-2015 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kach22i (Post 498434)
I could not find a Cd number for the two examples I looked into.

I mean they didn't even do a grille block and side skirts like this Ford below.

That's because they gotta play by the rules to race.

I'd have to double check my rulebook, but IIRC, /DT largely follows the rules for the /GC (Gas Coupe) category. /GC is not allowed any streamlining other than removal of mirrors and trim, lowering, air dam, and wheel covers. I think /DT specifically allows tonneau covers.

It looks like Nissan has done all that and stopped there. I am a little surprised that there is so much wheel gap up front and the windows are rather unusual, but otherwise it looks clean. My official guess: Cd = .300

ByDesign 11-04-2015 04:22 PM

I'm guessing the truck is in the current form for the show, and will be modified further for an actual attempt per the quote "additional safety equipment and more – will be added within the next few months as the truck is developed with an eye toward setting new class speed records."

Several other little do-dads are already made but removed for the presentation. Gotta glitz it up for press!

Cd 11-04-2015 04:27 PM

I'm going with .27 - I would have gone lower, but Kach pointed out the open grille.

As far as the open wheel wells, and lack of side skirts, I keep thinking back to the HotRod 1980 Camaro, which achieved a verified .201 Cd with nothing more than an airdam, a plugged grille and headlight assembly, a simple shelf spoiler, lowering, and moon disks.
No side skirts, no belly pan ( later added, but not present early on when tested ) etc.

( And that .201 figure is with the giant scoop on the hood !

Amazing. http://image.motortrend.com/f/593306...Bonneville.jpg

Vman455 11-04-2015 05:24 PM

That Camaro test also demonstrates how much of an impact seemingly-minor details can have. Raising the rear by 1.5" increased Cd to .227. They also tested three different hood scoops, with the final version same Cd as no scoop.

kach22i 11-05-2015 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darcane (Post 498437)
That's because they gotta play by the rules to race.

I'd have to double check my rulebook, but IIRC, /DT largely follows the rules for the /GC (Gas Coupe) category. /GC is not allowed any streamlining other than removal of mirrors and trim, lowering, air dam, and wheel covers. I think /DT specifically allows tonneau covers.

It looks like Nissan has done all that and stopped there. I am a little surprised that there is so much wheel gap up front and the windows are rather unusual, but otherwise it looks clean. My official guess: Cd = .300

You gave me something to look into - thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByDesign (Post 498438)
I'm guessing the truck is in the current form for the show, and will be modified further for an actual attempt per the quote "additional safety equipment and more – will be added within the next few months as the truck is developed with an eye toward setting new class speed records."

Several other little do-dads are already made but removed for the presentation. Gotta glitz it up for press!

Yea, the Ford I showed was in a situation just as you described, one look for "show", and another look for "go".

From the original article:
Quote:

with the truck competing in the D/DT class (current record 191 MPH) as well as the FIA class A-III-9 (record 115 MPH).
Looks like qualification for two classifications, and I suspect correspondingly two different aerodynamic packages (and looks) will result.

FIA World Land Speed Records | Federation Internationale de l'Automobile
Quote:

CATEGORIES

There are many different types of World Records which are divided into four main categories (A, B, C & D) and then several Group & Class sub-divisions within those categories.

Definitions of these Categories, Groups, and Classes can be found in Appendix D through the link below.
I have to get going, but for now will assume the images posted of the Titan are for the lower speed class or closer to street stock class. This appears to be the lower speed number posted in the article, FIA class A-III-9 .

Vman455 11-05-2015 01:17 PM

Interesting--class A-III-9 is FIA, and breaks down to Automobiles (A--as distinct from "Series Automobiles B"), diesel engine with supercharger (III), 3.0-4.0L displacement (9)--but the Titan has a 5.0L engine. Nissan isn't telling all in that press release, apparently.

D/DT looks like an SCTA diesel pickup class that doesn't allow changes to bodywork. That's probably what we're seeing in these photos.

Cd 11-05-2015 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vman455 (Post 498446)
That Camaro test also demonstrates how much of an impact seemingly-minor details can have. Raising the rear by 1.5" increased Cd to .227. They also tested three different hood scoops, with the final version same Cd as no scoop.

Makes one realize of fickle that air is. One moment you have a vehicle with a Cd of .25 or so.
Then suddenly, a butterfly crosses the road, instantly sending your Cd number skyrocketing to .30 :D

Cd 11-06-2015 04:36 PM

So what is the official Cd quoted at ?

aerohead 11-06-2015 04:50 PM

changes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vman455 (Post 498568)
Interesting--class A-III-9 is FIA, and breaks down to Automobiles (A--as distinct from "Series Automobiles B"), diesel engine with supercharger (III), 3.0-4.0L displacement (9)--but the Titan has a 5.0L engine. Nissan isn't telling all in that press release, apparently.

D/DT looks like an SCTA diesel pickup class that doesn't allow changes to bodywork. That's probably what we're seeing in these photos.

I think that's it.Like the Ford Fusion 999 and VW Jetta which ran.
You can:
*block the grille
*lower it so much
*yank the wipers
*yank the mirrors
*add MOONs
*add stabilizing air dams, spoilers,fences
*HOT ROD's Camaro got to use a bellypan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Otherwise,it better be 'stock'

dremd 11-21-2015 11:46 PM

Sorry I didn't get any pics for you guys, I was there Tuesday and the cover was still on it.

dremd 11-21-2015 11:48 PM

There was also a 4 cylinder Cummings in the booth, I assumed it was for a future small truck, but it may have been in the land speed Titan.

darcane 12-02-2015 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerohead (Post 498720)
I think that's it.Like the Ford Fusion 999 and VW Jetta which ran.
You can:
*block the grille
*lower it so much
*yank the wipers
*yank the mirrors
*add MOONs
*add stabilizing air dams, spoilers,fences
*HOT ROD's Camaro got to use a bellypan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Otherwise,it better be 'stock'

I finally got around to grabbing my rule book.

The Fusion is an oddball, because there is no class for "production-based fuel cell car". This was either run as a time-only car or as an Electric (/E) which is Special Construction (basically, anything goes as far as aero is concerned).

I don't know what VW Jetta you are referring to.

There are three diesel truck categories, Diesel Truck (/DT), Modified Diesel Truck (/MDT), and Unlimited Diesel Truck (/UDT). /DT is intended to represent a typical diesel pickup truck with all panels in their stock positions and almost no streamlining (mostly following the rules of the Gas Coupe category /GC). Both the Nissan and Ford above appear to be /DTs

Grill blocks are specifically barred.
Belly pans are specifically barred.
A flush tonneau cover is allowed, but no other streamlining behind the cab is allowed, no spoiler.
An air dam is allowed, but the bumper must remain stock and it may not block the grill.
Mirrors may be removed, but door handles and window trim must remain stock.

Hot Rod's Camaro raced in a variety of categories, typically as a Classic Altered or Competition Coupe. Altered allows significantly more streamlining, including a "Step Pan", CC goes even further. Classic is for cars 1949-1981, their Camaro is a 1981.

aerohead 12-02-2015 05:51 PM

Jetta
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by darcane (Post 501094)
I finally got around to grabbing my rule book.

The Fusion is an oddball, because there is no class for "production-based fuel cell car". This was either run as a time-only car or as an Electric (/E) which is Special Construction (basically, anything goes as far as aero is concerned).

I don't know what VW Jetta you are referring to.

There are three diesel truck categories, Diesel Truck (/DT), Modified Diesel Truck (/MDT), and Unlimited Diesel Truck (/UDT). /DT is intended to represent a typical diesel pickup truck with all panels in their stock positions and almost no streamlining (mostly following the rules of the Gas Coupe category /GC). Both the Nissan and Ford above appear to be /DTs

Grill blocks are specifically barred.
Belly pans are specifically barred.
A flush tonneau cover is allowed, but no other streamlining behind the cab is allowed, no spoiler.
An air dam is allowed, but the bumper must remain stock and it may not block the grill.
Mirrors may be removed, but door handles and window trim must remain stock.

Hot Rod's Camaro raced in a variety of categories, typically as a Classic Altered or Competition Coupe. Altered allows significantly more streamlining, including a "Step Pan", CC goes even further. Classic is for cars 1949-1981, their Camaro is a 1981.

A while back,one of the members shared a link to VW's Bonneville project.It might show up in a search.
Here's B/DT pickup which ran in 2014.It looks like a 'fit' to the rulebook
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/...2/HPIM1921.jpg
When I ran in 2012,it was just for time and I could do whatever I wanted to the truck.
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/...HPIM1874-1.jpg
Ford with illegal grilleblock
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/...titled4_12.jpg
Very illegal Impact/EV1
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/...titled3_14.jpg
HOT ROD's looks illegal
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/...ntitled316.jpg

Vman455 12-02-2015 06:51 PM

This is the Jetta, when it was at the LeMay museum (might still be there, I haven't been in a couple years):

http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2717886d.jpg

darcane 12-03-2015 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerohead (Post 501118)
HOT ROD's looks illegal

Well, it's illegal... for Diesel Truck. For Classic Altered, it's fine.

Streamlining rules vary a lot by class.

darcane 12-03-2015 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vman455 (Post 501124)
This is the Jetta, when it was at the LeMay museum (might still be there, I haven't been in a couple years):

Thanks. I've seen that one at Lemay's. I think it's still there.

As a /PS, streamlining is limited.

aerohead 12-03-2015 05:09 PM

Jetta Hybrid LSR
 
I found the Motor Trend article.
*mirror delete
*wiper delete
*lowered
*MOONs
*air fences on roof for safety
*narrow,and near bald GoodYear EAGLE racing tires
*MT thought Cd would remain the same @ Cd 0.28 (I'd guess around Cd 0.263 because of the mirror delete)
*MT says frontal area went from 20.7 sq-ft,to 19.6 sq-ft
*Jetta averaged 186 mph and change
*single highest 1-way pass= 187+ mph.
*MT doesn't say if 300-bhp,1.4-liter was measured at near sea level in Southern California,but I suspect that this is the case.If so,the bhp on the salt could be as low as only 86% of rated power due to Bonneville's density altitude.(Re: Rick Gold,CRC Racing Fuels,meteorological reports).
*the 27-hp electric motor (supercharger) wouldn't experience a change of course.

Cd 12-03-2015 08:02 PM

So has anyone come across the official Cd ? ( of the Titan )

aerohead 12-05-2015 02:58 PM

official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cd (Post 501223)
So has anyone come across the official Cd ? ( of the Titan )

I spent some time surfing the net yesterday and came up empty.
Considering the 1989 GMC Sonoma LSR with Cd 0.315,and the current Cd 0.36 RAM 1500 Regular Cab with grille shutters/ active suspension/toneau cover,it seems reasonable that the Titan will be in between,maybe Cd 0.337?

aerohead 12-08-2015 06:17 PM

pickups: Cd 0.315-0.309
 
Here is the Cd 0.315 1990 GMC Sonoma,and current Cd 0.309 Holden VR Commodore Ute
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/...titled28_6.jpg
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/...titled27_9.jpg
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/...titled26_9.jpg


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