Have a couple questions about potentially switching cars to a hybrid and if it's worth it
 

Questions first.

1. If I'm after the best cost/return on a car, being the least I have to pay with the most savings afterwards, what type of car should I look for and what else should I look out for when choosing?

2. Is doubling my mileage from around 32/33MPG to around 60+MPG a reasonable expectation by getting a more economical car and implementing more techniques? (I put more info about how I came to the conclusion of the numbers below)

3. Am I better off sticking with my current car instead of switching?

4. Should I get an automatic or manual (if both seem relatively equal)? I much prefer to drive a manual 100%, but I've heard that automatics are closing the gap.

(5. Unrelated question. If I have the option to drive 4 miles, but it'll take ~17 minutes because of very slow traffic on a stretch of road, or drive 4.5 miles, but it'll take 13/14 minutes because of better traffic, which is the more economical option?)

I've got a Ford Mondeo 2.0 2008. It's a 5 gear petrol. But I had been tossing up the idea of getting a hybrid before, but it was never worth it because I didn't drive much. Now that I have a job that is a 30 mile commute, I think it will end up being worth it.

My MPG reader on my car seems to be optimistic, but the range left seems more accurate. I reset my MPG when I hit the motorway this morning to start testing changes on FE and at 55mph, I hit an average of 50.4 MPG (according to the car) when I came off, after 17 miles. The other 13 miles is urban driving, and especially when I finish work there's a lot of traffic which drags it down. I already leave early in the morning to miss traffic and have smoother slower driving, and miss some after work by going Gym on way home and miss half of the traffic as it's later when I finish at gym. 50MPG should get me 770 miles out of the tank if it was correct, but the range said 670 at the end of the motorway which I believe to be more accurate, especially when my average MPG on the car used to be 29.1, which should net me 448 miles, but I'd end up getting closer to 400/420 I think.

I haven't done a full week of driving with a full tank then refuelling the next week to figure out roughly how much I'm using per week to get a more accurate number yet though now that I've started the new job, but I currently (on the readout) averaged 35/36MPG, which if I consider the ~10% increased reading on the readout is probably more like 32/33MPG. I think if I practiced more techniques better I could raise the true reading at least around 35+ but I have no way of knowing yet.

If I managed to double my normal mileage, I'd save at least £100 a month on fuel, and probably around £20 a month on car tax, although the insurance apparently tends to be more expensive, but I don't think this will be more than a few pound a month difference overall. My wife said if I wanted to get one she'd also chip in for the cost, and I could essentially be driving a newer car for no extra cost on my monthly budget, theoretically.

I had been tossing up the idea of investing in an instant MPG reader, but I had heard some newer cars and a lot of hybrids have it, so if I was to get a different car and it comes with it, there's no point buying one, but if not I may as well.

Well 60 miles, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year is 15,000 miles. I don't think you will get 60, but 50 is doable. At $5/gal that's only a $640 savings a year.

Now there could be other savings with a hybrid. Better resale, the brakes last longer. You are doing good with your Ford. I had the Lincoln version here the MKZ and didn't get 25 mpg. Of course it was the AWD 400hp 3.0 turbo. I switched to a Sonata Hybid and get 50 pretty easy. I have seen a trip across town claim 72mpg once, but tank to tank, hand calculating around town it gets 50 and that's my wife mostly driving it not trying. So I'm happy I got the Sonata. We drove 30,000 the first year so saved about $2,200 with gas here at about 3.80/gallon.

I also may be confusing European gals and US gallons, so maybe 50 US mpg would be more like 60 European.

Get a aircooled Beetle convertible. The mileage will stay the same, but appreciation will be through the roof.

newatlas.com/50-most-valuable-volkswagen-bug-beetle-sold-at-auction-price/53935/

https://assets.newatlas.com/dims4/de...on-price-8.jpg

This one sold for $72K. Beetles are silver, Microbuses are gold.

I don't know about the UK, but in the USA we're still in a pretty terrible time for buying. Selling can be good, but then trying to find a car for a decent price is pretty much impossible. And car dealerships have been increasing the prices of their cars above MSRP.

I dumped my 1985 VW Golf diesel for a 2013 Toyota hybrid and ended up getting worse fuel mileage. Of course right now the cost of diesel is higher than gasoline out here, but sometimes it's the other way around.

In UK we use Imperial gallons for MPG, 4.54 litres I think.

Also, fuel here costs a bit more than in the US. The cheapest place I can get it, converting to US gallons, it's £5.32 a gallon, or in USD it's $6.74 a gallon.

My mileage would be a little lower as I only go there 4 days a week as 1 is at college, but I also work a second job which is close by, so maybe 13000 is more accurate, so considering that, it's £591 a year savings if I base off actually getting 35 MPG with my current car doing more techniques, whereas if I go off what I'm actually getting which is 31/32, its around £813 a year savings.

Which is less than I'd have hoped, but it's still pretty good I guess. I'll just have to think more on it and decide if it really is worth spending several thousand on another car for the long run savings at this point in time or wait a bit.

Side question, I see a lot of used Prius' going relatively cheap as imports from Japan. Is it a gamble getting one of those because the numbers always look good, but I heard they get them from not the best conditions.

I've got a total cost of ownership calculator in my signature built specifically to compare various options. It's not perfect because many variables cannot be known with precision, but it's useful for ballpark comparisons.

I don know of any hybrids that aren't plug in hybrids that get 60mpg, I think the best you are going to do is around 50mpg and I'm not sure if you mean highway driving or not.
I don't know of any hybrids with a manual transmission unless you're looking at turbodiesels.
Less distance and lower speed will definitely be more efficient.
If you're oy looking at like 4 mile trips why not get an electric beater car?

It's 30 miles either way, not 4 miles. Also I have never properly considered getting a hybrid or electric car as my current car works, so I've only very recently been looking into it, but I can have a look, I just want to make sure I'm not going to be left in the lurch if I do get a beater car and it dies on me. My current car I've owned for 7 years, and it's only at 81,000 miles, I bought it with 30k on the clock so it's still got life in it and I've never had a serious issue. Always apprehensive about getting something else because I know my car has never completely screwed me, just a couple major issues that still last until I can get them fixed.

Looks like Telford is somewhat centrally located in the UK. I'd be very inclined to look into an EV if there was easy access to charging at home. The relatively mild winters wouldn't affect range as severely as some of our northern states.

If reliability is among your concerns, EVs are far less complex and need far less maintenance.

Since I wrench on my own vehicles, maintenance and repairs isn't as big of a deal to me, but if I had to pay mechanics to do everything for me, I'd for sure get an EV.

I was having a look at the cost of EV car batteries, and they cost as much as I paid for my car, which makes it seem more expensive than it is I guess, but I was trying to find if theres a calculator to calculate potentisl battery degredation based on frequency and length of use plus time to get an idea of when it'd need to be replaced and how long I'd be willing to go over the average battery life with fewer mileage.

Don't suppose you know if such a calculator exists or at least the maths for it? I imagine though that if they are pretty reliable, when it comes to the general running costs savings, it works itself out in the end.

Reliability is another form of range anxiety?

I guess I'm missing the forest for the trees. In the end, if it's so close I have to use a calculator to get a specific answer then it doesn't matter in the long run.

You're right to wonder about these things, but unfortunately the oldest of the "modern" EVs is only about 12 years. The Leaf didn't have active thermal management, and as such, suffered rapid battery degradation.

Vehicles with active thermal management so far have had very modest degradation, but the oldest of those are only about 8 years or so.

Some forums have users that have plotted battery degradation through individuals that self-report. Tesla forums have the most data since they have the most cars and forum members.

Lithium ion battery construction and chemistry varies, so there will be variation in degradation and longevity, perhaps even within the same model of vehicle as manufacturers will change things within the same generation of vehicle. For instance, the Spark went from LiFePO4 to another lithium ion chemistry in just 1 model year.

We won't know how long batteries last until it's been 20 years. My wild speculation based on nothing except observing degradation between various EVs is that modern ones with active thermal management are likely to give very usable range for 15 years.

In the US, the batteries get 10 year, 100,000 mile warranties, so the manufacturer is going to build them to comfortably exceed this minimum threshold.

... so in 15 years an EV might be nearly worthless, but then again that describes most any vehicle.

Of course it's one thing to have a vehicle that's nearly worthless in terms of price, but still runs with a little TLC. It's another to have a car that's worthless because without a $15,000 part it won't go anywhere, or at least not go farther than the edge of the neighborhood.

It's worth noting that 60mpg UK is 50mpg US. UK fuel prices are much higher than US fuel prices.

The UK also gets a bunch of neat cars the US never got. For example:

Honda Jazz (Fit) hybrid could be optioned with a 6 speed manual. 62mpg US (74mpg UK) but I'm uncertain if this is apples to apples with US economy testing methods.

Honda CR-Z hybrid could be optioned with a 6 speed, and is optionally a 2+2 seater, unlike in the US where it's only a 2 seater.

Honda Vezel could be optioned as a hybrid with a manual transmission.

Suzuki Swift (most recent) can be optioned with hybrids and/or turbos with CVTs or 6 speeds, anywhere from 50mpg to 57mpg US (60-68mpg UK).

I owned a Honda Insight 1st gen 5 speed for a decade, and was able to average ~70mpg US (84mpg UK), with highway fuel economy approaching 100 (120).

There are a ton of German, French and Italian cars which I may not be aware of which may be available with manual hybrids.

Outside of the US, Toyota has sold hybrids (non-manual) as options for nearly every vehicle they sell, for nearly two decades. By the numbers, Toyota's hybrids have the least and cheapest maintenance. I don't find them exactly inspiring to drive, but it's hard to go wrong with a Toyota hybrid, in an apples-to-apples comparison.

~

My opinion, a plug-in hybrid can be the best of both worlds. Plug-ins can drive a number of miles on electricity only, but don't need to have a huge, expensive, heavy battery to get that 300+ mile range people want. Net result, you commute every day to work for pennies on cheap electricity but can still take a road trip without worrying about charging networks. The batteries are also far less expensive to replace. A Chevy Volt battery, good for 35 miles before falling back to the gasoline engine, is only $3,000usd to replace.


Overall, this question looks to be one that can be answered with some math - essentially, ((cost of new hybrid) - (sale price of existing car)) / ((yearly cost to drive current car) - (yearly cost to operate hybrid)) = years to break-even.

Factor in projected maintenance costs and you have your basic total cost of ownership. A Toyota hybrid which uses the old style nickel battery could expect to need a $1500usd battery every 150,000 miles or so. The newer lithium batteries haven't yet failed in significant numbers, but they're looking to last longer and cost no more. With a Volt, you have a battery that's 2-3x the cost, but rather than cutting your operating costs in half, you're cutting it 80-90%.

~

The Volt is a compelling package. Hyundai's Ioniq (same drivetrain as Kia Niro) is also compelling, available as hybrid, PHEV or EV and is a far more efficient vehicle. It's good for 50ish miles on electricity, and once it falls back to gasoline, it's around 33% better on fuel than a Volt. Honda sold the Clarity as a PHEV in the US, and the Accord is available as a PHEV in most other places. There's also the Prius 3rd gen PHEV, Prius Prime 4th gen, and Prius Prime 5th gen. Toyota has plug-in hybridized several other models in non-US markets. Mitsubishi sells the Outlander as a PHEV. Chrysler sells the Pacifica.

~

Anecdotally, when I look around at what people are driving in NZ, which has even more expensive fuel than the UK, people are primarily driving subcompact hybrids. The math works out in favor here.

Bearing all that in mind, one thing I didn't take into account was the fact that my place of employment has a electric charging cable for staff to use. If I was to use that, I'd be able to have free electricity for most of the week and maybe not even need it over the weekend depending on how much I drive it.

I will take a look at your comments in more detail when I get home as that seems very promising

The Prius is a rock-solid car. I've had two 2nd generation (2005 and 2009). Both averaged 45 mpg (US) in mixed driving and needed almost nothing but routine maintenance. I had the 2005 for 12 years / 150K miles and the 2009 for 10 years / 115K miles. Both were replaced just because I was sick of driving a Prius and there were other options that looked more appealing.

My parents have a 3rd gen Prius (2010) with 185K miles. Most reliable car they have ever owned and still averaged 50 mpg (US).

Worst case if you need a battery they are $1000 - $2000 depending if you want remanufactured, aftermarket, or original OEM. There are also companies making kits to swap them to Li-Ion batteries.