HD Livewire
 

Hello,

If you have not seen, price, date, and pre-order has started for the Harley Davidson Livewire.

I have very mixed emotions about this motorcycle. It was the first EV motorcycle I ever test rode. It is a full-size EV motorcycle by a major manufacturer...

But, spec wise it does not hold up to the top of the Zero Electric models, and costs almost twice as much.

I figured HD would price it too high, but at $20-$25k US, but $30k starting price? Do they want it to fail?

I do hope it spurs other major manufacturers into releasing full-size production EV motorcycles.

I just want a simple, reliable cruiser style that can go about 200 miles with my fat butt and gear. It does not need a sub 4 second 0 to 60 time. It does need a comfortable seat and some luggage.

Anyone else have high hopes for the EV motorcycle market over the next year or two?

Sounds exactly right; HD delivering less performance for more price.

I'll probably have an EB (Electric Bike) someday, but I'm not all that thrilled about it. My bike already does 0-60 in 3 seconds, has a 200 mile range, and gets 45 MPG.

I have a gas motorcycle, but now that I have owned an EV for over a year, the reduced maintenance, the ease of charging at home, and the expanding charging infrastructure... my next motorcycle will be an EV!

This is the prototype for the motor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiDBRmHQYqw

Livewire sounds like an electocution hasard.

LoL, I didn't think of it that way until you pointed it out. That name must have just edged out "The HD Electrocutor" and "The HD Electric Chair".

Guilty as charged ;)

1. I expected the LiveWire to be overpriced but I thought they would at least match the performance of the Zero SR. I was expecting 200 miles of range for $30K. 110 miles for $30K is just embarrassing. The Zero SR 7.4 + Power Tank give the same performance for $14K

2. Electric motorcycles aren't a good fit for the typical motorcycle usage in the USA. Most US rider use their bike for longer weekend rides instead of daily transportation. So I don't expect to see rapid adoption in the USA. I see a huge market for E-scooter and smaller E-bikes in the rest of the world where motorcycles are transportation.

3. I test rode a Zero SR last year and loved it. I just can't see myself buying one though.

I kinda agree about EV motorcycles not really being a good fit. If you're not commuting on it, then there's not much point because the miles aren't getting racked up, which is among the main strengths of an EV.

200 miles is a normal range for motorcycles though, and I wouldn't want to go any longer than that without a break, so perhaps it wouldn't be all that bad to stop that often for a recharge.

I'll probably own one someday when they are outperforming gassers at a lower price point.

$30k though... you could buy a Chevy Bolt or Nissan Leaf for that kind of dough. Does it qualify for a federal tax credit?

The EV motorcycle tax credit expired in 2017

The problem with even a 200 mile range is the limited charger network. Some friends of mine both own a Tesla Model X. Yes the can travel on major interstates and city to city but they still plan all their trips based on where they can charge. In Oregon that puts about 2/3rds of the state off limits.

Most motorcycle sales have little to do with rational decisions ;)
If it is cool in its own way all it needs is a good excuse.

It isn't cheap - nor are gas Harleys... That doesn't stop people from buying them. You could almost have a new Tesla for the price of a CVO Limited!

True but the typical Harley rider (at least in the USA) hates technology.

Even if the gizmos are placed at a 45 degree angle?

Likewise the control electronics of the Tesla powered 1949 Mercury:

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1541790376

"Looks like a V8! Cool!"
Cause it IS cool, though it doesn't make sense.

Yes. Harley didn't even offer ABS on a Sportster until 2014 and it is still an $800 option in the USA.

My last bike (ST1100) did not have ABS, even though it was available at the time as an option. I rolled it once too many, it was too much to fix.
I rode it nude for a while. Short geared, long wheel base, low center of gravity, Mad Max style (the V4 cylinder heads look gigantic when exposed), light from shedding 100 pounds of plastic; it was savage.
But I lost my trust in it.

Not having ABS contributed to me no longer riding.

Do they even fuel inject them yet?

I bought my 2001 Honda because it was the first year they had FI on their 600.

Didn't really mean to turn it into a dog on Harley thread. People like 'em and I'm fine with that.

... I hadn't kept up on the latest tech on bikes these days and didn't realize their ABS, traction control, and cruise control are getting very good now, and somewhat standard depending on what the intended purpose of the bike is.

That said, I don't think I've had any close calls with braking. I pretty much exclusively use the front brake, so the back is never stepping out due to braking. I suppose if I were good I'd learn how to trail brake into turns.

Harley added EFI in 2008

ABS is an excellent tool to learn just how quickly a motorcycle can stop. Many people get nowhere near threshold braking because they are afraid to actually find the point where the brakes lock up. With ABS you can practice in an empty parking lot or road with the confidence that when you find the limit and lock the front brake you won't crash.

In the past 25 years of riding I've crashed twice from locking up the front brake in situations that would have been prevented by ABS. Today I will not buy a bike without EFI and ABS. Traction control is nice too.

On my last trip to Europe I rolled on the throttle a little too quick shifting from 1st to 2nd on the BMW R1200GS we rented. The traction control let the front come up a few inches and held it there until I rolled off. It was amazingly smooth cut to the power.

In a straight line, it's not really possible to lock up the front wheel of my bike unless you grab too quickly before the suspension settles in. I can stoppie in the wet. Would be cool learning where the limit really is though by having systems that won't let you exceed them.

That is true with a consistent road surface. That was not the case in the situations I mentioned above. Both crashes happened at night while braking approaching an intersection. The first time I hit a patch of of fine sand, the second was an oil patch on a wet road. Both times the front locked and I was on the ground before I knew what happened.

Even in Brazil ABS is now mandatory for motorcycles above 300cc.

Even on my longer trips (rode around Lake Michigan, or down part of the Mississippi), I at most travel 300-400 miles in a day. I am not trying to cover distance in any one day, so a 200 mile range motorcycle designed for a larger frame (height and weight) that can also take along my gear is what I am looking for.
Zero is the best I have ridden so far, but I am wanting a more cruiser style setup.
I have even considered buying an old UJM and a wrecked Zero and putting the Zero drive train in the UJM... But then I think about the garage space, the tools I would need... and I just hope someone makes the bike I am looking for in the next two years (car gets paid off and I can replace my motorcycle).

I saw an ad that Harley is doing a Livewire demo special so I booked a demo and took one for a spin. I was surprised that when I showed up the bike was front and center right at the entrance and they had a fancy display showing the Long Way Up trailer.

The Livewire is an impressive bike. Properly quick, turns well, brakes well. Basically nothing one expects from Harley. I hit 95 mph on a short on-ramp. The ergonomics could use some changes - the bar is too low and wide and the seat is a joke. It feels heavy lifting it off the sidestand but that weight isn't noticeable once rolling.

Still way too expensive and lacking basics like Level 2 charging but it does show that Harley can make a proper handling bike if they wanted too. That is a positive sign that the Pan America and Bronx could be good bikes. (It does look like the new CEO killed the Bronx which is a shame)

I was not offered the advertised limited addition t-shirt that came with the test ride.

It was weird being in a Harley dealership and instantly noticing that at 43 I was by far the youngest person in the store besides the receptionist. I doubt there was a customer in the shop younger than 60.

It test road one years ago, when they had the early prototypes out for test rides. (this was around the time it showed up in the Avengers movie)

It sounds like nothing changed in several years.

Which is sad, because Zero makes a superior bike for much less.

I demoed a Zero SR 14.4 last year. I was impressed with the acceleration but not the blending of regen and friction brakes or the suspension. The chassis felt very budget level for a $18,000 motorcycle. The Livewire rode much better than the Zero SR. I haven't had a chance to demo a SR-S yet.

This issue for me is cost and that Harley decided to go with Level 3 charging instead of Level 2 which is a huge miss for me. Level 2 charging is much more common around here and available for free at my work. It should have Level 1, 2, and 3 like cars - especially for that price.

I usually see people around my age (currently 30) riding Sportster, Road King, Softail Standard and Deluxe, while the Electra Glide is favored by older people.

The Electra glide is like sitting on your couch. The others not so much, so unless I want to get somewhere all beat up feally fast, I prefer the couch.

Had a glide, sporty, crotch rocket 550, honda. Over that now while I collect social security.

I've never owned a Harley but I've ridden most of them because I'm an EagleRider member.

I agree that the Electra Glide is like sitting on a couch but that isn't a comfortable riding position to me. With my feet forward I can't stand on the pegs to absorb bumps so all the shock runs right up my spine. This is compounded by the lack of suspension travel.

The most comfortable long distance touring motorcycle I've found is the BMW R1200GS. Plenty of legroom, upright riding position, decent wind protection and lots of suspension travel to soak up the bumps.

They're mostly meant for showing off anyway.


I like the flat-twin engine.

I concur that the R1200gs is the most comfortable bike i have ridden to date.

I heard a rumor that HD has been delaying the release of this bike because they have had some engineering difficulties. Specifically with making an electric bike that can leak oil all over your shop floor.

Yes! R1200's are so comfortable! And smooth riding.

I thought the engineering difficulty was in getting them so loud your ears bleed, you know, for safety reasons.

That actually is a selling point sort of. One reason they don't sell well.

Harley has never been known to handle great. Not needed when central 'Murica is 20 mile straight roads.

My glide had the sprung soft pillow seat with shocks, bumpy roads made everything bounce but me

My brother-in-law's Honda GL1200 GoldWing was smoother than most cars. I rode it once, but I was slightly distracted as it was the first round trip with the girl who's my wife now in the passenger couch...

Flat boxer 4s are really smooth.

All that "loud pipes save lives" BS that becomes a nuisance for everyone else. The street where my apartment is located is quite busy, yet I don't hear much of any motorcycle other than Harley-Davidson ones with excessively loud pipes.