HELP< Electronic/computer help needed MPG related
 

OK Here is my problem.

The MPGUnio is great BUT as it takes it read out from the ECU side of the injector, it cannot see the changes I am working on.

I have a system that lets me control the injectors duty cycle.

Neither the MPGUnio nor the Scan gauge II can give me a real time readout of fuel used and MPG.

I have a fix for this IF I can get some help.

The old Zemco MPG Computer.

It uses a fuel flow meter system and its own speed/distance readout sensors.

BUT:

Most cars use a fuel return line.

So this system will gladly show me how much fuel flows though the system and right back to the tank.

So I think, use two flow meters, one in and one out.

Subtract the out flow count from the incoming count and you have the amount taken/used by the injectors.

The output needs to match the single flow meter’s system of a low count of negative going pulses.

I am so close to a real fuel saving system that controls the injectors but 100 miles test runs are hard to do.

I need a real time readout so I can see how much I can save and when I can either go farther or have gone too far and am hurting MPG with stumble and misfiring.

Can anyone help??

Rich racprops@cox.net

This got crossposted somehow, but the mpguino keeps track of injector open (and closed) time, which is essentially duty cycle. It isn't connected to the ECU at all.

Sorry I put it in the best places hoping to get help.

AND sorry the MPGunio works off the ground side of the injector and thus reads how long the ECU holds the grown down and thus reads off the ECU.

NOW IF you change that it will still read the ECUs call for ground and thus not see that I have short cycled the injector.

Rich

the problem with crossposting is now we are having the same conversation twice.

without a schematic of what you are attempting I cannot say what will or wont work. There are likely ways to modify the duty cycle that do not interfere with the monitoring of duty cycle however.

I can not give out what I am doing other to say it is like cutting the b+ line with a synic contoled system thet short cycles the on time of the injector.

SO I am not changing the ECU nor its cycle time.

So can anyone build a computer to compair/subtract two counters and to output the differance??

Feel free to remove the other post or theone you feel is in the wrong place.

Rich

?!? I don't know how to help you if you are going to be secretive. Hope that works out for you.

What I am doing to the injectors has nothing to do with what I asked help with.

Now if I was asking for help WITH my Injector controler, that would be another story.

I am asking for help rigging up a pair of flow meters and subtracting the two counts from each another to get a corrected count to give MPG with aold zemco MPG Computer or perhaps to feed to a MPGunio...

Then I can see if my injector control can be made to work.

I do not plan of letting others get a head with my idea.

So if you will only help if I give away my idea, well I will not come back here again.

Rich

the problem is this is a forum for sharing ideas. Indeed you are asking for others ideas without subjecting your own to daylight. "Help me, but first guess what I am thinking"

modifying pulse width has been done a number of ways, most reliable seems to be by modifying the o2 sensor signal, which tricks the ecu into a leaner mixture. If you force the injector pulse width to a different length, the system WILL attempt to compensate, as is.

I will gladdly share the system to compair counters.

Rich

Look I have worked long and hard to make this work.

At this time I don't even know IF it works.

That is why I am asking on help to modifide a old MPG Computer to find out.

What we come up with is open to anyone that wants to follow to use a old computer.

I found a bland spot in the MPGunio and asked for a fix.

I figure that the old system which runs a lot slower and uses a simple ground pulse trigger would be simple to fix.

Rich

Not sure you saw this message, it is a caveat about forcing changes to the pulse width directly:

counting is trivial by comparison.

Here is one discussion from 2008, keyword EFIE:

Look at my record, I bought a bunch of your MPGunios and help out as best as I could.

83 posts.

Now stop fishing and help.

Rich

Dude I am doing nothing like that.

I know all of that.

Can you figure a way to subtract counter two from counter one and give out the differance??

Note the numbers will change due to speed and demaind... so they are not fixed.

Rich

I can, but I would never give up the precision (and low cost and ease of installation) of monitoring the injector pulse widths, for installing dual flow meters and writing special programs to monitor them.

There are some applications that may need dual flow meters, but I am not convinced this is one of them.

This is me helping :)

I exsplained that with my injector controler your MPGunio is blindsided, as I am not changing the ECM, and thus not changing the ECMs control of the injectors, the MPGunio does not see my changes and still reads the ECUs control and thus falsely reports the wrong MPG.

Rich

I would personally redo the thingy to gate the negative side of the injector with an appropriate semiconductor (i.e. n-channel or npn), and leave the mpguino attached to the injector.

And your right back where I already am.

The MPGunit is great for almost all systems.

BUT it reads the signal from the ECU to the Injector, and how long that ground signal is on.

I am not changing that signal.

So the MPGunio CANNOT read the real on time of the injector or of fuel fed though it and so can not do what I need.

ONLY a real time read out of the FUEL will do.

My system COULD be a MAJOR BREAKTHOUGH, all I need is a way to really read how much fuel is used.

A real time readout so I can tweek and tune it as I drive.

Give me a hand and I can prefect it or your standing in the way of a possable great idea.


Rich

I do not understand why gating/chopping the negative side is not an option. It absolutely is an option with a trivial change to whatever circuit you have interrupting "b+" if you know how to do it, and will not divorce you from your current investment in fuel consumption instrumentation.

The guino won't work as-is with any random fuel hack which is no surprise, and the guino WAS here first, so you could have planned for this configuration to keep things compatible.

Switch the ground side of the injector instead of "B+" and you are done. Just invert the thing doing the switching, what is the problem?

Thanks.

Thanks for nothing.

Rich

For nothing? Provide a schematic and I will prove what I am saying to you. Why in the world would you throw out injection monitoring for far less accurate and more expensive and harder to install dual flow meters that don't even have hardware/software written for them yet?!?

You are doing things the hard way,
you are welcome.

Because yours is unable to read the real fuel flow.

Because yours runs off the ground cycle of the ECU.

Because I need a more usable system, for my testing.

But this is worthless, I will not show you what I am doing.

I only asked for a system to compair the flow meter's counts.

Help me with that or not.

Rich

With saturated injectors and a manifold referenced regulator, it does a better job than the available flow meters that I have seen specifications for. Does your car not have these things?

The guino can also work with a positive signal, it is a menu setting.

I'm trying to understand that statement. your thing is switching b+? but why cant it switch the negative lead? Do you expect a flow meter to be more accurate than monitoring injector open time (assuming you can straighten the latter out)? if so, why? Do you have a specification sheet for these flow meters?

It is worthless because you are not explaining anything, and being secretive, and not listening.

No, you made misleading and unsupported statements too, and you cross posted which is very improper netiquette.

You do not get to mandate the discussions, especially when make unsupported assertions. I see many unaddressed issues with your posts, and with your plan, and with your methods.

I can try to help you (and anyone else reading this) in my own way if I please. I also reserve the right to call you out if you call me out.

You can keep your secrets, but such a selfish stance does not merit selfless help from anyone. Nor does it provide any confidence that it is the best approach.

If the MPGunio can be reset by me to work off the B+ that might work, so how do I switch it?

Rich

hit left and right to go into setup, change "InjTrg 0-Dn 1-Up" to 1, hit ok, go through rest of values in setup (left+right should advance without saving changes for that value).

This will tell the guino to look for a rising signal to indicate injector opening, for cars that have positive switched injectors.

Thanks.

I will try that.

More when I have something to report.

Rich

If your car is negative switched, and your device is switching positive, it wont help though. You should make a simple change to your device to also switch negative in that case.

Well I can't.

So we are back to my needing a system that does not run off the car's ECU.

Will you help me with that??

Rich

I haven't seen a decent accurate and affordable flow meter surface yet, so it isn't a priority for me. Do you have a link to one that you have in mind?

The ones I have were made to be used and came with the Zemco MPG Computer.

It uses a light bulb and a photocell, the light is blocked by a small ballbaring running though a grove pushed by the fuel flow.

It is well made and has withstood the fuel pressure on my Chevy Van.

The output is a short, as the instructions say to test by tapping the wires together.

It takes a couple of tanks of gas to refine the calaberation, and it can be updated easly.

I plan on updating the system with a LED and light reading LED.

Both the photocell and light was subject to failure.

The computer is again the Zemco MPG Computer, or perhaps your MPGunio...

The Zemco uses a low rate pulse and I understand it will be slower than the MPGunio.

As I think about it: the flow rate of a fuel injector system maybe higher that the old carb systems, so a system to divide by 2, 4, 6 might be needed to slow down the pulse rate output to the Zemco MPG Computer.

Rich

Ah, I think the ball is also subject to melting.

DieselJohn was entertaining building something similar. IF the sensor were something that other folks could reliably obtain cost effectively and were accurate, I would consider customizing a guino to track single or multiple pulse signals (i.e. with differences).

Well out of four meters, I have not seen a melted ball...

So I guess I wait for Dieseljohn's work.

Rich

or get some help converting your device to negative switching, since that should be a trivial change.