Help me build hybrid trike.
 

Greetings from Snorg. :)
I would like to build hybrid trike.
Propelled by 1/2 HP 120VAC electric motor, or two if one is not enough power.
Said 120VAC motor will be fed by a 120VDC battery pack of nine 12V batteries in series.
A "1500 Watt" 120VAC portable generator will be on board to extend the trike's range. The generator's nominal capacity is actually 1200W (120VACx10AMPS), diodes will be used to change the 120VAC to 120VDC.

The first question I have is what to do for speed control. I think I will have nine power taps, one after each successive battery this will give me nine speeds that I select manually. Do you think that would work fine??

Next I need to know what to do for brakes. If I'm going downhill at top speed and simply select a lower speed will that provide effective braking and if so will it be enough?

I don't know allot about electric motors, I know that a 120VAC motor that has brushes will run fine on DC, but do motors that are commonly used for bench grinders and compressors run on DC?

120 volt DC motors are not very common and changing an AC motor to DC is not an easy, practical, or efficient way to go.
Using only part of your battery pack for low speeds is a bad idea unless you really like buying new batteries as some of your batteries will always be used and some will only be used at high speeds and putting partially charged batteries of different states of charge in the same string will damage your batteries, it might even reverse cell polarity on the first few batteries in the set.
Before spending any money on this project I highly recommend that you made a trip to your local used book store and look for a book with a title like Understanding Electricity and Electronics (I own two copies of this book, one is to loan to people with questions like this).
Last of all, at low speeds you want peek amp output of the battery pack, not the amp output of a single battery in the pack, this is where solid state speed controllers have made electric vehicles a practical thing to build, switches have arcing ever time they open and close, they also become very complex when trying to vary voltage like you want to do.

Actually, power tools do have "universal" motors, so they do count as 120 V DC motors. Unfortunately, they are built for light weight and small size, not efficiency or quietness.

Your basic plan is OK, but you'll probably change and improve the details after a bit of reading. A nominal 120 V battery is usually made from 10 nominal 12 V batteries; they are only over 13 V when fresh charged. For brakes, you will need regular friction brakes to stop much harder than you can accelerate. Regenerative braking will extend your range a bit if you can use it downhill or for gentle stops. With such low power, you'll want excellent streamlining, and that, with a bit of battery weight, seems to coast forever so it is handy to rig it so that it goes into regenerative braking if you take your foot off the go pedal. That way, you can get used to gentle stops without touching the energy-wasting brake at speed.

That is part of why I ignored them all together, that they are not efficient or practical, in my mind you would be better off getting an inverter if you wanted to run an ac motor but I can't think of any variable speed ac motors off the top of my head, other then blenders, but those are just weird.

I think this project needs to be re-thought, also someone who doesn't understand electricity working with 120 volts dc makes me a bit uncomfortable, people being killed by home built electric vehicles is not something I want to hear about.

May I recommend:

DIY Electric Car Forums - Electric Vehicle Build and Conversion Community


I've been haunting the site for a few months, and i've gone from total ignorance to...er...knowing to ask the right questions, at least. :o Make sure to check out the Wiki, located in the upper-right corner of the page-it's a treasure trove of free brain-candy!

The really basic questions need to be addressed first-how heavy do you estimate this Trike, and how many passengers/cargo do you envision for the load? How fast do you wish to go and how far? Delta(trike) or Tadpole(reverse-trike) configuration? And above all else, how much money do you have to play with?

Bear in mind that I haven't built my own EV yet (no funds, but i'm saving up!) so right now my Search-fu is all I have to offer...

Free Development Plans, Software and Information Trike plans (gas, EV and Hybrid) with free advice on Body Moldings and handling stats on Trike configurations.

3-wheelers.com MainPage A total love affair with all things Trike and an A-Z list of all 3-wheelers ever made commercially (with links to the active distributors)

http://solarvehicles.org/home.html Probably less power and range than you're shooting for-but the plans are free and can be scaled up...

EV Photo Album: Our Electric Cars on the Web Just to drool over-keeps me going while I save penny upon penny! :D

Best of luck.

Ok Bob
 

Ok Bob, but with 10 batteries will the onboard 120V generator be able to fully charge them ?? If they only get charged to 12V each is that good enough??


OK Bob, regenerative braking would be very good here in this hilly country.
If I buy a 120V motor made for EVs and a proper controller will the controller provide regenerative braking??
Im in BC can you give me web links to where I could by the motor and controller??

thanks Eh?

Ahh, so there was method to that. :-) Actually, 120 VAC peaks at something over 150 V AFAIR - the 120 is the average under a sine curve. However, chargers often have more differential than that. A transformer to boost the voltage ahead of your rectifier might help. However, if you want to regulate power by switching batteries in and out, you probably want individual chargers for each battery. These can be modern, high-tech units that produce pulses and all sorts of help tailored to the battery. Or, you could go to modern battery controllers. Once we moved from relays and big sparking contacts to silicon, it became easy to switch the power on and off again rapidly enough it works like a voltage change in a motor. From there, the art has progressed to controlling the spin of strong, permanent magnets, which has done a lot to get more range from the batteries. The new motors are simple and versatile, but totally dependent on silicon.

This may be a good time to read up on the specs of available controllers. Offhand, I can't remember the details of how to maximize regenerative braking. It pays to "overload" the motor more when gathering free energy. Unfortunately, you may wind up reading about a lot of ideal hardware that is 'way too big for your trike. Why not start from what's available for electric bicycles?

Ok Bob, bicycle stuff wont give me the range and speed I need.
I found a web site of an out fit here in BC, Im getting info on a 13HP 120VDC motor and controller, they dont show any prices so I had to email them.
I will post here again when I get some info from them, probably by the end of the week.

I thought you were aiming for 1/2 to 1 HP? That's 375 to 750 watts in electric-bike terms, a very common size for one or two wheels. For range, leaving the generator at home, you either add more batteries or else add streamlining, which also increases speed. What did you have in mind for the rest of it?

If you mean the rest of the electric stuff I dont know about what else I need.

As for mechanical stuff I want to build most of it myself, a pipe frame and fiberglass body. I'll have to figure out what to do for drive axle and wheels, probably chain drive, I dont want to use an old rear end because thats too heavy. Probably use motorcycle parts for front wheel and steering.

I do have a Ford Courier wreck I could use the rear end from but I would like to build something lighter, but the Courier rear end would be easier to rig up and has the brakes and springs and shocks on it.

Probably use plexiglass for the windshield if it will bend enough to make it curved.

Depending on how light you plan to make it, and how fast you plan on going with it, the rear swingarm/solid axle assembly from some 4 wheelers might suit you. (chain driven ones)

My friend's Yamaha Warrior YFZ600 will go about 67 MPH tops, with a solid axle and the stock swingarm, and about 300lbs of dude on it. And we've been known to put street tires on it and drive it to work during the summer (keeps miles off the cars and the huge truck he has.)

Oh - you'll want to use Lexan... plexi doesn't like to be bent and then subjected to odd forces like wind.

Ok good.

Bent plexglas is what you usually see on race cars, etc. Lexan is very prone to scratching, and hard to polish, because it won't shatter.

This sounds like a very educational project, but I don't want to feel responsible for any delta in passenger use on public roads. In an emergency, you can't use both brakes and steering safely, unless the proportions are outlandish.

While you're on that subject Bicycle Bob, my own future EV is shaping up on paper as a Delta at Highway(not Freeway though) speeds. I was hoping that two powerful Rear brakes, one weak Front brake and a total weight of under 600 lbs might take care of instability issues-I figure if the Trimuter(Delta config) can do 70+MPH with no serious issues my homebrew might have a chance.

I'm no expert on the subject though, so please enlighten me if i'm wrong-I was hoping that Delta would be easier to service and align, but i'm not absolutely married to the concept...

In a steady cruise down the highway, stability is pretty easy. The first tricky condition is the crosswind, often a gusty one around big trucks. A light, streamlined vehicle will generate a lot more side force relative to the traction available, and, unfortunately, that is always concentrated near the front. So, it is better to have more weight and traction at that end. Ideally, you would have positive stability with no traction at all, like an aircraft.
The other tricky condition is the emergency maneuver. Just weakening the front brake will add some directional stability, but it looses stopping power. That reduction only helps in proportion to reduce the danger of tipping if you steer while braking. Some days, it might be better to lock up the front, so you can't steer, instead of getting skid-induced oversteer.
There are delta trikes on the roads, but their insurance rates reflect the amount of extra room they need for safety.

If you live in Pennsylvania, or several other states, put a orange reflective triangle on it, permanently mounted (bolted, not with magnets) and don't go over 45MPH on any public road. That way, you're legal, and it doesn't need insurance. You can't enter a "locked" freeway though, since they have a minimum speed of 45MPH and you have a legal max of 45MPH. You'd be breaking the law either way.

Hey Snorg,

A friend of mine built an electric trike this past summer, which he is planning on adding a bio-diesel generator to for extending range.

You can see the thread about it here

Basically, it's the back end of a motorcycle, and the front end of an ATV. It uses a Curtis PWM (pulse-width modulation) solid-state controller for the speed control and runs at 48 volts (4 x 12V batteries)

http://gallery.me.com/benhdvideoguy/...C06725/web.jpg

Can-ev is located in Errington, on the island. They are one possible supplier for parts. Canadian Electric Vehicles Ltd.

Too much money
 

I finally got some prices and its going to cost more than $4000, so Im just gonna forget about it.

Wow, you give up easly, how much did you spend on gas, oil changes, exhaust, tuneups and all that last year? how much did you spend buying your last vehicle?
sure $4,000 is a bit to shell out all at once and I was able to buy a compleat road worthy factory built electric car for less, but why give up your dream?

If that's too much money, why not try something more modest first?

My motorcycle is tons of fun to ride and cost me about $2000 to build.

My Electro-Metro is far more practical, and can now hit 60 MPH. That was built for $1300.

Swee's trike was dirt cheap to build.

Try building an electric bicycle or something. You will learn TONS about batteries and motors by doing a small project. All the same components are there - just cheaper and lighter!

No need to give up-just bide your time. Eventually you can find a lot of bargains, or just get lucky scrounging...and while you're being patient, you can try and save up some extra money for your project.

Heck, i'm too poor to even electrify my bicycle right now, and i've lucked into 3 old bikes I can salvage parts from, a 1972 VW Generator for a motor and some cables. I'm half there for free...

I feel your frustration, mind you. But look at it this way-

AN

TI

CI





PATION

-is half the fun!
:D

Off-Topic
 

What size rim can you fit on a ATV? And what lug-nut spacing would I be looking at?

Your buddy could add a pannier with solar panels and charger tucked away; unfold and deploy when parked. Not free, but cheaper than $4K.

most atvs are either 4"x4 lugs if you want larger rims you can get trailer rims and car tires.