Here's what happens when you don't use your Chevy Volt gas engine "enough"

[Diesel_Dave]

Originally Posted by Voltdriver

As you can deduce, depending on your circumstances, the payback period on the car can be pretty quick.

I beg to differ. Using your own numbers:

2012 Chevy Volt = 1.9 cents/mile, MSRP = $39,145
2012 Chevy Cruze = 30 mpg = 11.5 cents/mile, MSRP = $16,800

So ($39,145 - $16,800) = $22,345 initial cost difference.
Divide that by (11.5 cents/mi - 1.9 cents/mi) = 9.6 cents/mi fuel operating cost difference.

=232,760 mi payback period.

I'm not necessarily trying to say the Volt is a bad car--just saying the payback time isn't there.

[Voltdriver]

Thats where you are going wrong. The Volt is not a Chevy Cruze. The top 4 traded cars for the Volt are the Prius (24k+), Camry (24k+), Honda Civic Hybrid (26k+) and BMW 3 series (35k+). Why would you be comparing the Volt to a Cruze? Because it is the same platform? There are plenty of shared platforms across a wide array of manufacturers, with wild price differences. Lexus has shared the same platform as Toyota. Audi has shared the same platform as VW. So why do you think Volt owners consider a gas guzzling, low optioned car, like a Cruze as a subsitute?

I came from BMW. I would never consider a Cruze. The Cruze Eco doesnt even have 4 wheel disc brakes for pete's sake. Not to mention, if you look at the cheapest Cruze, as you have mentioned, it is barebones. Even the base Volt is a very optioned car, having standard features that are not even options on a Cruze.

And also, the Volt, after tax credits, is 32,500. I already know people getting them for under 30k after the tax credit. So, in actual numbers, you need to start a lot lower.

The car is already cheaper to own and operate than my 2011 Mini Cooper, and is way cheaper than my BMW. My wife's 2012 Honda CRV cost us about $200 more a month to own after you consider the payment and gas she is spending, which is amazing since the Volt I purchased had a sticker of 45k.

In my situation, the Volt payback period is 0 month. It is already cheaper for me to pay for and operate this car than the previous 2 cars I owned, and the Mini Cooper being a 25k car, that is saying something.

Financial logic, in any sense, is silly on a car. Try figuring out the payback period of a luxury car over a used Civic. People buy cars for reasons well beyond simply financial reasons. A person that is motivated to buy an electric car is NOT, as a general rule, going to even look at a Cruze. If you want to compare it to something, you have to look at cars that aiming at the same goal. A Cruze, at 30 MPG, wouldnt even turn the head of a Prius owner, let alone a Volt owner.

[Diesel_Dave]

Sorry, I probably shouln't have sent the thread down the "Volt cost" rabbit trail. We could debate all day about the "fairest" way to compare costs, but probably we should stick to the original topic.

Sorry for the diversion.

[Voltdriver]

fair enough.

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by Voltdriver

BTW. I stayed away from it, but the Leaf having problems in Arizona helps illustrate one of the key differentiators between the 2 cars.

1) The Volt has an liquid cooled battery, in which the fluid is either warmed or cooled and circulated around the battery to keep its temperature in an acceptable range. This even happens when the car is in a parking lot unplugged. The Leaf, however, does not have this system and is strictly air cooled. A big help in minimizing battery degrredation to heat.

2) Leaf owners are allowed to fully charge and fully discharge their batteries. As previously stated, GM only allows the owner access to 10 kWh of 16 total. You aren't allowed to discharge the battery to empty. And since there are reserve cells, the range of the Volt will be constant for a longer period than a Leaf, as reserve cells come online when original cells degrade.

3) People in a car like a Volt dont have to worry as much about battery degredation. As their EV only miles diminish, they can still drive on gas. Not ideal, but in my case, it may change me from getting 800+ MPG to around 200+.

...being "air-cooled" when the air is HOT (100-110ºF) is not really any cooling at all. Of course, lugging around more battery cells than absolutely necessary isn't bright either.

...and, the general public DOES tend to view the VOLT™ as simply a "fancy, electric" version of the Cruze for more reasons than their shared Delta II platform.

[Voltdriver]

I am hoping the media can differentiate this issue from the Volt.

But this will be the headline on Drudgereport after Leaf's start having battery issues:
VOLT BATTERY FAILING

Mark it down. Even though he'll link to a site that talks about the Leaf.

[MetroMPG]

Voltdriver: seriously, thanks for showing up to correct some misinformation in this thread (specifically, my comment about the cycle life of the Volt's pack that didn't take GM's "reserve/buffer" strategy into account).

I often read misinformation/FUD about hybrids & EV's all over the web (particularly in comment sections of mainstream media sites), and have often thought to myself: "I wish owners of this or that particular car would show up here and correct some of this." Glad you did.

[Voltdriver]

No problem I enjoy it.

...and, the general public DOES tend to view the VOLT™ as simply a "fancy, electric" version of the Cruze for more reasons than their shared Delta II platform.

The public hates it because they see it as a symbol of the environmental movement, when the car was developed during the Bush administration. In fact, the production version, not the Concept, was unveiled in 2008. Then you add the bailout for GM, and its enough to turn a lot of people crazy. I bought the car for reasons that had nothing to do with the environment. I should have an article published in the next month or so speaking to that directly. The singular message of the manufacturers in promoting the green message above all else is limiting their market.

[gone-ot]

I look forward to reading your published article.

[NeilBlanchard]

The Leaf battery cells are different than the Volt's, so making assumptions based on the cooling system is not necessarily correct. Slight correction by the way: the Leaf battery is passively cooled.

On the "payback period" -- you are not including regular maintenance, which adds to the costs of driving the Cruze. And gasoline prices are pretty much guarantied to go up in the future, so the costs increase over time, which also shortens the "payback period".

If you install a zero-down PV array, then the cost of driving the Volt goes way down right away, and stays very low over time. And you save on your electric bill as well -- you can still do this if you drive a Cruze, but it won't lower the cost of driving.