The Honda-1991 LX Sedan
 

Hi all,
This will be the main thread for our new project. We work in cycles so there will be periods of activity interspersed with silence. I expect it will take at least couple years to complete the list of desired modifications in between the rest of life.

We are putting together a vehicle we can afford to drive on trips. I have done all kinds of aero-mods to my vehicles over the years but I have never planned such mods in advance. In the past it has always been a case of mitigating an obvious deficiency or two on a daily ride or work vehicle.

This is the first time either of us have purchased a vehicle specifically for this purpose.

We looked concertedly for almost a year and intermittently for closer to two years.
We finally gave up looking for a manual transmission and purchased a 1991 Civic LX automatic that only had 118k original miles and was fairly well maintained mechanically. There was some severe rust around the rear wheel wells and rocker panels but the main pan and structural elements are in great condition. The original factory extended warranty maintenance records stamped right in the original manual from a local dealer that still exists were buried in the glove box. Only the last 3 years are not complete and we have many of those too.

We did a fairly extensive list of maintenance and stabilization procedures to get the car to a good point for the coming modifications. (All 100k maintenance items, new ignition components, timing belt, water pump, new rear brakes, removed those annoying metal weather seals from the back brakes that always rust, get bent and drag, plus checking condition and lubricity of axle bearings) We sealed the holes, stopped and stabilized the rust. Most of those areas will be covered by the coming mods so I will rebuild the rear wheel wells at that time.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-lu...da-1991-lx.jpg

Since we are doing this with long trips in mind we will not be doing anything to significantly reduce visibility, handling or safety.
That means we will not be deleting windshield wipers, experimenting with LED lighting, covering directionals or marker lights or things like that. The side view mirrors need to stay. I have been driving vans and work trucks for so long my brain does not even notice a rear view mirror. We will probably need them with the Kammback anyway,

It also means that we actually added to the weight of the car. We replaced the mini-spare with a full size spare. Added about 30 lbs of tools and emergency supplies not counting water.
It will always have two adults, running at about 340 lbs plus miscellaneous materials related to whatever we are dong. We are talking around 400 lb total payload back and forth to town and as much as 600 lbs on trips.

So far I have only done a mileage calculation on the first half a tank. That came out to 35mpg. I can not help but get my hopes up. I hope that ends up being a real number. We have a long drive on Tuesday that should get us a full tank calculation.

Because of the EPA rating on this car my initial goal was to shoot for 40mpg. If the 35 mpg holds up I will think about altering that goal.

http://cdn.hondanews.com/photos/0c7b...05-500x353.jpg

Welcome! Start a fuel log here at EM? You could add a partial or full grill block to that list, with shutters and the ability to open them within the car. Mooncaps on the wheels? Also, take off the power steering belt if you have PS. You will be amazed how unimportant PS is in our little lightweight cars, especially with your trucking experience.

Instead of deleting rear mudflaps, like I did, use them as the basis for rear tire strakes.

I already started a fuel log
We went on a long day trip on Tuesday.

I logged just over 40mpg.
30% NY Thruway 65-70mph
60% 2 lane 55-65mph
10% city stop and go.
I am amazed at the results I am getting by just driving conservatively.

This trip allowed me to tune into the transmission and it is pretty impressive. Snappy shifts, very predictable. Once it is warmed up the lock up will engage reliably at 45 mph and I can hold it pretty well even up moderate hills.

Transmission
 

Glad you are enjoying the transmission feel. If you get into big mods eventually, you might consider a transmission swap to a Civic HF trans of the same year or generation. That would bring your freeway rpms down and increase fuel economy. See the gearing differences here: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ios-26279.html

James

What have you used to seal the rust holes?

The holes are sealed with a foam pak, the same stuff we use to seal holes around doors and windows only in a larger, 2 component package.

First I used a product called "Chassis Saver" it is the best stuff I have found to stop and convert the rust since the EPA regs ruined "Extend". Chassis saver is not as good as the original Extend but is the best thing I can find here in NY and it is waaayyy better than the Extend they sell now.

I did a considerable amount of prep to uncover all the hidden rust bubbles... Then I did a few coats of the chassis saver, multiple thin coats until no more rust comes through is the best procedure. Follow the instructions meticulously and it works great. The black spots on the body are the spots I applied chassis saver. The rust marks are rust stains on the paint.

I put in a couple temperary stops to keep the foam from going where I did not want it to go and filled the associated cavity and surrounding spaces with foam.

I then trimmed the foam to shape, I did a small fiberglass layup over the foam for strength, followed with a little bondo filler for the worst diviots. Spray can of self etching primer and generic car store paint.

As long as you are careful to find and convert all the rust before encapsulation this sort of repair has lasted me many years in the past. All subsequent rust that appears must be addressed quickly to maintain the itegrity of the body of the vehicle.

If we do that from the start then we get many more years out of our cars here in NY salt counrty.

That's for sure a labor-intensive project. Using foam in vehicle repairs is not so usual in my country, but patching with fiberglass is not uncommon.

It has been somewhat labor intensive but I am mostly retired so we have more time than money.
Everything I do goes through an intensive cost benifiet analysis.

So far we are into this car for only $1100. Pretty good for how well it is performing.

That foam techinique has been around here for many years, I think it is actually required for rust hole repairs in Pennsylvania.
They use a lot of salt on the roads in the winter and it rots out the thin metal in the new cars pretty quickly. It is as bad and maybe worse that living near the ocean

I lived in an island for some 12 years and rust issues related to the salt mist were not uncommon, but probably using salt on the roads has worse issues...

I grew up in the road salt regions of the USA and now live in a year-round warm climate by the ocean. There is no comparison: road salt eats cars and the ocean has nearly no effect. Classic cars are everywhere out here because of it. We have it easy in Southern Cali (until "the big one" hits, knock on wood).

;)

Rear suspension aero detail question?
 

I am halfway through my second full tank of gas and have logged 220 miles so it seems on track to maintain the nice mileage numbers. I am not sure I will have the patience to get three full tanks through it before I start the modifications. I have to at the least get the rocker panels and rear wheel wells together before next winter as well. At the rate we move that means I need to get started.

This car here is pretty much what I pictured doing when we aquired this car.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post419709

I have some ideas for additional details but that is what I am shooting at.

I have idenified an interesting detail on my car and it has created several questons for me.

First what is it?

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-lu...erodetail2.jpg

Second: What does it do?

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-lu...aerodetail.jpg

I have never paid much attention to fine details like this so I am not sure I see how the turbulance around the wheels works in this example.

My first thought was that it is deflecting air that would be hitting the suspension arm into the hollow of the actual wheel.

My second thought was that it is deflecting the turbulance caused by the tire back into the wheel to minimize its effects.

I am wondering, given the nature of some of the other design details, if the engineers left the holes in the wheels, and covers I suppose, to allow the air pressure to equalize keeping that deflected air from creating turbulance if it has nowhere to go?

I noticed that few if any HIgh mpg cars come with solid wheels or smooth covers.

So as I plan my skirts, wheel well covers and Kammback transitions those were the first questions that came up.

Thanks in advance.

I took those off my Wagon when doing some suspension work. I'm not sure what their purpose is.

I think the reason "few if any high mpg cars" come with smooth wheel covers or solid wheels is mainly marketing. Most people don't like em. But there could be some brake cooling considerations too. Some people will lean on the brakes hard, by habit or of necessity (live in a mountainous places, anyone?). That said, the first gen insight and the civic hybrid had some flat, nealry solid wheel covers on them. I also think those were ways cool, good looking wheels.

Affodable Wheel covers?
 

I do have to brake hard sometimes with the stops at the bottom of the hills around here.
I am going to go with the smooth wheel covers, I will just have to pay attention and see if I get any brake fade.

I am still intrigued by that rear suspension deflector, it has to be there for a reason, I am going to try to include it in my thinking.

Does anyone know if the insight or civic hybrid wheel covers will fit my older civic? I had a wheel cross reference chart once that I am not finding now.

I have 2 sets of the bolt on honda covers that I can not see how to easily convert to smooth.

I found these:
http://hubcapmike.com/images/racing_disc.jpg

But they are kind of pricey for us.

These are convertible but are also kind of pricey for us.

http://www.hubcapmike.com/images/52s.jpg

All suggestions welcome.

Thanks

Maybe the deflector protects something in the suspension from road debris?

I believe those help with getting clean air to the brakes. :turtle:

That's what I'm leaning towards. In the parts diagrams, Honda calls them covers. Directly behind them is the lower shock bolt. On my Wagon, there are plastic covers over the lower control arm inner bolts too. Didn't help in rusty New York, I still had to cut the shock bolts out in pieces.

The way they're angled, they would send some air towards the rear drums. But I don't know if the rear brakes need any airflow. And they might direct water kicked up by the front tires towards the rear drums. I'm not really sure what the deflectors are for and I'm not really sure why I removed them. :)

8 & 11 in this diagram:
http://cdn.revolutionparts.com/ill2....028&make=honda
http://stores.revolutionparts.com/ho...peed-automatic