Honda Hybrid Vs. Toyota Hybrid
 

Hello MPG lovers, I have a question.

So my Camry LE 4 banger is approaching 200,000 miles so I'm starting to browse the market for my next vehicle. I will 100% be buying used and really like the idea of a used hybrid. What are your thoughts on honda hybrids. From the research I have done they are not as efficient as the toyota's. While the toyota can electric motor can power the car at low speeds with the engine off, the honda cannot. How much of a difference does this make in real world driving. What are your thoughts on reliability and whatnot. Thanks in advance.

I have about 5,000 to spend.

What kind of driving do you do?

You just want to own a hybrid??? Toy and Honda make many different configurations. Is the tradational 5 door hatch back gonna do it? Would you rather get anotehr camry and have the better fuel economy? You like to have a riced out civic and hybridness at the same time? What about an SUV or even sports car? Highlander/Lexus?

If you can make due with a 2 seated and 100+ mpg then go with an insight. :thumbup:

Unless you have a plug-in (which you are unlikely to find in your price range), about as much difference as the tailfins on '60s American cars made to their aerodynamic stability :-)

Other than that, I much prefer the Honda. You can get them with manual transmission (I won't drive an automatic), they have normal key start, better gauges, etc. And of course the Insight is a 2-seater, which I like.

$5,000 won't buy much with any life left in it. You would be better off to put that money down on a Fiesta or a Spark.

A friend just needed to replace the battery on his 09 civic hybrid. This problem is not uncommon.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that the 1996-2005 Civic HX is the most fuel-efficient non-hybrid gas compact. If I am mistaken, I doubt that the exception would be in your price range, but you would have a difficult time finding one with fewer than 100,000 miles.

It certainly would not be right for everybody, depending on the years, it is probably smaller than the Camry, and I really like having four doors, but I think that it is a great car.

The only hybrids you might be able to find for under $5000 are 1st gen Insights, 1st gen Prius's and Civic hybrids.
I personally prefer the Toyota/Ford system with the eCTV because of the engine off driving/coasting. A manual Honda could do engine off coasting, but I don't think the CVTs can do engine off coasting. I seem to get the best results in my Escape by accelerating with gas and then cruising/coasting in electric.

Basically a hybrid allows those who lack eco modding skills to get better fuel economy and in some states use the hov lane. If you got any skills with mods and driving you could get more bang for your buck with any non hybrid car.

My $1800 Insight beats the Non-hybrid cobalt any day of the week.

ECO driving skills can't beat a highly efficient design.

"Had to"? Or just had it replaced under warranty by the dealer, because that was easier for them than fixing the problem?

Isn't it so efficient that it wins hypermiling contests with the hybridization disabled? :D

What does that say about highly efficient nonhybrids? :)

Hybrid or not, yall need to take a hypermile class.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...41779943_n.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...15865719_n.jpg

I would go with the Honda Insight manual.

I did a quick search of my area and found one for under 5K here is the link =

2002 HONDA INSIGHT 5 SPEED MANUAL, VERY ECONOMICAL

I believe the Honda insight got the best fuel economy for a hybrid in the US. They achieved it by downsizing the vehicle hence reducing weight and improving aerodynamics.

Yeah, first gen honda insight 5 speed 2000-2001 FTMFW!!!!!

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...84472621_n.jpg

Got that one beat. And yes, the Gen1 Insight can win hypermiling contests even with the assist disabled, and it can do even better with it enabled.

Thats impossible!!!!! I read it here that you can no way get better fuel economy in a hybrid without using the hybrid system. :p

Wished you had an sg2.Its likely you exceeded 150 and the gauge just maxed out at that point. I Think JimE has his up to 235 mpg on his odb2 meter. :D

Nope. Though I have to admit I started at about 8000 ft elevation, and finished near sea level :-)

You're right about the gauge maxing out at 150 mpg, but the picture was taken a few miles before it would have started dropping below that. I would typically get 80-90 mpg for the 250 mile trip from my place (about 4500 ft), over the pass, down the hill & across the valley, then I5->I205->I580->I680->101 into San Jose.

I do have an SGII, but it's pretty much worthless for mpg on the Insight. The car's gauge is as close to dead on as I could measure, the SG all over the place.

Is that because it cannot handle lean burn?

I'm not sure just why it doesn't work well. My guess, from what other people have said, is that unlike the OEM gauge, it is not measuring actual fuel flow, but using some algorithms to estimate it. That may work ok for "normal" cars, but I think the Insight just goes too low, as it were. For instance, the SG's fuel flow only reads in tenths of a GPH, and I could never get it below 0.2 even when in open loop and DFCO. There are also a bunch of parameters that have to be set (like displacement & number of cylinders), which the SG keeps forgetting...

Yes. It's because it doesn't know about lean burn. It cannot, because the car's OBD-II port doesn't say anything about it. Any OBD gauge will have that problem.

If your gauge kept resetting maybe you had a defective one. I've never had that trouble in 7 years with two gauges.

The DFCO thing was fixed in a later revision.

Specifically, from what I have read on here, the gauge only knows how much air your engine is using, not fuel. Without knowing the engine's current ratio, it cannot correctly estimate.

thanks for all the info guys!

Interesting fact: the Fit has the same 150 mpg max that the Insight has. It's just LOT harder to see it. :p I did once, rolling downhill.

I have seen 150 MPG or higher in my Forester when coasting. At idle, my engine uses around 0.24 GPM, so I would need to be rolling at 37.5 MPH.

However, even though I see moments of extremely high MPG, my average is not too much higher than EPA, which is lousy.

Sensible design: develop one part, use it for many applications.

It's like the people who can't understand why drive-up ATMs have Braille keypads... (The reason, of course, is that it's cheaper to use one standard keypad than to make a special one for driveups.)

In Yourup the MID shows l/100 km and I'm pretty sure it will show 0.0 l/100km if I reset my trip counter and push the Insight for 100 meter.
Could do something like that coasting at speed too of course, might do that tomorrow as I accidentally messed up my Trip A (auto tank reset) measurement anyway.
Bound for infinity ;)

EDIT: No, it does not! I did reset my A counter when coasting down a highway exit, and it just kept displaying --.- l/100km until it went into ICE mode again.
Usually the numbers appear after 100 m, now it kept to the dashes for over 500 m. When I booted it as the lights changed, it jumped to 0.6 and upwards.
I'll see how low it can go on my next commute.

EDIT: it goes right down to 0.1 l/100 km.
0.1 l/100km is about 2349.285270354257 mpg, give or take a bit.
Anyway it simply refuses to show 0.0.
Think it finds that kind of FE really dashing ;)

it is not true that all OBD port devices would get confused by lean burn. The OBDII C&C, an OBD device that is specifically designed for the first gens Insight and Civic Hybrids has no problem with lean burn. It also shows AFR, though. The Insight is great if you don't need a back seat or carry anything heavy (350 pounds including driver and passenger). It can also run just fine with no hybrid battery, and because of its extreme light weight and lean burn, it will still get killer mileage. plus, with the aluminum frame, you won't have much trouble with rusting (well, the fuel door release on mine likes to rust from lack of use ;) ) If you do, the Civic and Prius are both good choices. The Civic would be a better driver's car with its optional manual if nothing else. You have to take care of the battery though. I built a low power grid charger/balancer based on the designs suggested on Insightcentral.net, and I have no problems with my 13+ year old battery. The Prius is probably more trouble free, but I always got the impression that it is more of a transportation appliance than a car.