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SVOboy 09-04-2008 10:39 AM

Honda Insight Concept to Debut at Paris Int. Auto Show
 
Honda Insight Concept to Debut at Paris Int. Auto Show | Hypermiling, Fuel Economy, and EcoModding News - EcoModder.com

Quote:

http://ecomodder.com/blog/wp-content...89_preview.jpg


For months there has been chatter about Honda’s new 5-door hybrid, which has been hyped up as a Prius-killer. However, details have been scarce up until now, when Honda announced (and shared pictures!) of the Honda Insight Concept, which will be revealed on October 2nd at the Paris International Auto Show.

Much has been made of this car because of it’s low starting price (around $18,500) and higher people/hauling capacity when compared to the original Insight. The new Insight’s starting price will be lower than any other hybrid on the market, and was achieved by cutting the cost of Honda’s IMA system, which should lower hybrid prices across the board.

If you’ve been following the rumors, you’ll know that the new Insight Concept is based on the stylings of Honda’s fuel cell vehicle, the FCX Clarity, which is now on lease to a few lucky people out in California. This aerodynamics shape allows for a large interior while reducing fuel consumption tremendously, and doesn’t look half bad (I’m sure those wheels won’t come on the production model).

Expect to see the new Insight on Honda show-room floors in Spring of next year. Unlike the old Insight (and currently the Prius), we should expect the new Insight to be fairly available for purchase, as Honda intends to sell 200,000 units annually worldwide, with about half of those sales in the US. When more information is available to consumers, I will post again with pictures and links to the Honda site.

Read the full press release below:

TORRANCE, Calif. - Sep 04

Honda will reveal a concept version of its new small hybrid vehicle, to be named Insight, at the 2008 Paris International Auto Show, October 2, the company announced today. The new Insight Concept shares styling cues with the Honda FCX Clarity fuel cell vehicle and will provide an early look at the highly-anticipated five-passenger hybrid vehicle.

Going on sale in the U.S. next spring, the all-new purpose-built Insight will come to market at a price significantly below hybrids available today. From this unique position in the marketplace, the Insight will advance the affordability and accessibility of hybrid technology to a new generation of buyers.

“The original Honda Insight pioneered hybrid technology in the U.S. and remains a symbol of Honda’s commitment to innovative technology and fuel efficiency,” said Takeo Fukui, Honda Motor Co., Ltd. CEO. “This new Insight will break new ground as an affordable hybrid within the reach of customers who want great fuel economy and great value.”

The Insight Concept defines a new stage in the evolution of hybrid technology by utilizing a more cost-efficient version of Honda’s Integrated Motor Assist™ (IMA™) hybrid technology, resulting in a new level of affordability for hybrid customers worldwide. Evoking the innovative styling cues first seen in the FCX Clarity, the Insight Concept is designed with a low center of gravity and a generous five-passenger cabin, offering the kind of driving pleasure and roomy interior that customers have come to expect from Honda. While the Insight Concept’s aerodynamic design clearly identifies its fuel efficient purpose, its five-door access and folding rear seats speak to functionality that is designed to meet the needs of customers with an active lifestyle. The Insight Concept is a small, fuel efficient hybrid car that delivers big style and functionality with a healthy dose of fun.

Honda achieved a significant cost reduction in Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) components which should make Insight the most affordable hybrid vehicle to date. The production Insight will be offered as a five-door, five-passenger hatchback. Numerous technologies, including a function to assist customers in achieving more fuel efficient driving habits, will be applied to achieve a further improvement in real world fuel efficiency. With its affordable price, the new hybrid vehicle will represent the best value in its segment. Along with the Civic Hybrid, the new vehicle will be produced at an expanded hybrid vehicle production line at the Suzuka factory in Japan.

The Insight is expected to have annual global sales of 200,000 units per year - approximately 100,000 in North America. Following the launch of the new Insight, Honda also plans to introduce another unique sporty hybrid vehicle based on the CR-Z, first shown at the 2007 Tokyo Motor Show. All together, Honda’s global sales of hybrids should increase to approximately 500,000 units a year, or more than 10 percent of its total worldwide annual automobile sales.

The original Honda Insight was introduced in December 1999 as America’s first gas-electric hybrid car. The first vehicle to break the 70-mpg fuel economy barrier, Insight was designed from the ground up to demonstrate the ultimate potential for fuel-economy in a two-seater subcompact automobile.

A leader in the development of cleaner, more fuel-efficient mobility products, Honda introduced the first low-emission gasoline vehicles; America’s first gas-electric hybrid car and the world’s first EPA-certified hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle, the FCX. In 2007, Honda was named “greenest automaker” by the Union of Concerned Scientists for the fourth straight time.

MazdaMatt 09-04-2008 11:03 AM

So obviously everyone will mention the lack of skirts... that aside... why the heck do the rear wheels look like 14s and the fronts look like 18s?

I applaud their efforts to make market penetration a priority over ultimate efficiency. Getting 200,000 people to save 10gallons is better than getting 20,000 people to save 20 gallons. They kept it "conventional" and lowballed the hybrid price point.

Funny 09-04-2008 12:23 PM

The first thing that came to mind when I saw the picture of the new Honda Insight, "wow, they made a carbon-copy of the Prius. :mad:" This is nothing new folks. We all know that the Prius (gen 2) and older Insight were revolutionary in mass production car aerodynamics, and for good reason. For Honda to make a car that I could mistake for a Prius just by taking my glasses off is in very poor taste. I am not bashing all Hondas or any owners, but for Christ's sake, be a little bit more original.

That's my rant, asside from the similarities in shape, I laud Honda for attemting to make a more affordable Hybrid vehicle, Kudos!

MazdaMatt 09-04-2008 12:26 PM

I can understand the distaste with the similarity, however, they aren't the same car and looking at them side by side shows only that they have the same general shape... that is THE shape for cars to come. I wouldn't bash dodge and ford for having pickups that look the same, or airbus and boeing for planes that look the same. I'm not trying to squish your opinion, i just mean to say that we all will require some "getting used to" the "new" shape. Its like "all country/rap/rock music sounds the same"... it seems that way till you look at the details, then you see it is just a "catagory"

SuperTrooper 09-04-2008 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MazdaMatt (Post 58775)
So obviously everyone will mention the lack of skirts... that aside... why the heck do the rear wheels look like 14s and the fronts look like 18s?

I applaud their efforts to make market penetration a priority over ultimate efficiency. Getting 200,000 people to save 10gallons is better than getting 20,000 people to save 20 gallons. They kept it "conventional" and lowballed the hybrid price point.

The wheels look different sizes because of "perspective". You are not looking at a photograph either, but a CGI image.

What did you expect the car to look like any ways? There are only so many ways to squeeze 5 people into a box that passes all the safety regulations. And marketing told them that Americans like their hybrids to look different, not just a variant of an existing model. As far as "lowballing" the price, I think Honda expects to MAKE money off this unit. This isn't a market experiment like the original Insight, this is Honda's strike directly at Toyota.

MazdaMatt 09-04-2008 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperTrooper (Post 58788)
The wheels look different sizes because of "perspective". You are not looking at a photograph either, but a CGI image.

Look at the line along the side of the car. I assumed that line was horizontal like on all cars. The line starts barely above the front wheel and FAR above the rear wheel.

Brian03cav 09-04-2008 01:06 PM

looks like a prius copy, as others have said above. the original insight was something different, but i agree, honda needs to get some originality. I mistake the new accord for a mercedes all the time. thats not right.

other than the look it seems like a wonderful example of a future vehicle.

extragoode 09-04-2008 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MazdaMatt (Post 58789)
Look at the line along the side of the car. I assumed that line was horizontal like on all cars. The line starts barely above the front wheel and FAR above the rear wheel.

You've got a point. Everything looked fine to me until I looked at the line you pointed out. Hopefully it's just a mistake in the rendering, otherwise it'll be a really funny looking car.

cfg83 09-04-2008 04:31 PM

1 Attachment(s)
extragoode -

Quote:

Originally Posted by extragoode (Post 58811)
You've got a point. Everything looked fine to me until I looked at the line you pointed out. Hopefully it's just a mistake in the rendering, otherwise it'll be a really funny looking car.

Yeah, I thought it was perspective too. I rotated the image based on the baseboard and added some horizontal lines :

Attachment 1682

I made every line horizontal, which is *wrong* for perspective. But, I think the error you are seeing is way off. The rear tire is definitely smaller.

I am guessing this is by design. Why? Because a smaller tire probably means smaller aero-drag + better LRR + increased interior volume.

I can see some people hating it from the perspective of a "balanced design" (which could hurt sales), but I think it's kinda cool. Seems like something we would try to do. I like it more than the 2nd-Gen Prius.

CarloSW2

MazdaMatt 09-04-2008 04:37 PM

This is a suprising element. Yes, a smaller wheel will have less moment of inertia, less weight, less aero drag on the tire, more passenger space and a smaller opening. ...But typically car makers design their cars to understeer so that impacts happen from the front. Smaller wheels in the back would make it oversteer-capable... which could be a big advantage selling it to the racing comunity :)

You'll see the production model come out with front tires 2" smaller... prototypes always show up with HUGE rims and sell with regular sized ones.

SVOboy 09-04-2008 11:48 PM

No one complains that planes all look the same, :p

The price we pay for efficiency, na?

atomicradish 09-05-2008 03:36 AM

I love it! At $18,500 I can realistically consider buying it also. I have to drive people around all the time and they can sometimes be tough critics... so it's great knowing that I can get a stylish hybrid at a reasonable price.

wow, it's hard to get me this bubbly at 3:30 in the morning, but Honda has done it!

groar 09-05-2008 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MazdaMatt (Post 58789)
Look at the line along the side of the car. I assumed that line was horizontal like on all cars. The line starts barely above the front wheel and FAR above the rear wheel.

I looked at cars in the street this noon and this "look how fast I'm..." look is very present on recent cars. The "horizontal" lines aren't. My 1997 megane has it also but much less pronounced.

Sad they removed the rear skirts and didn't put moon disk hubcaps :(

Denis.

Funny 09-05-2008 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVOboy (Post 59007)
No one complains that planes all look the same, :p

The price we pay for efficiency, na?

The reason that all planes look the same is because there are two major manufacturers of commercial airplanes Boeing and Airbus. Most planes in the US are Boeing, most planes in Europe are Airbus.

And these two companies have a different styling to their respective planes. Usually Airbus has a more Bulbous nose cone, whereas Boeing is more missile shaped.

MazdaMatt 09-05-2008 08:20 AM

...but they still look pretty much the same because function wins over fashion.

NeilBlanchard 09-05-2008 08:31 AM

Hiya,

The nose looks pretty good, except for the large "fog light" openings. The upper grill appears to be mostly closed, and the windshield and hood are almost on the same plane, and they form a pocket for the wipers.

The lower front corners seem to have pretty substantial "wedges" leading into the front tires -- this is especially noticeable on the right side in this image.

It is too bad that they didn't do a front wheel opening like the original Insight; with the trailing edge curved in behind the tire. And yes the rear wheel opening should have been shaped like the Mercedes "Boxfish"; or have skirts.

The side view mirrors are fairly far back from the 'A' pillar, and they are quite slim (vertically).

I think that the "beltline" on the side of the car slopes downwards in the front; forming a subtle wedge with the line of the rocker panels. The window sills are also sloped down in front.

They hopefully will share more details at the show: Cd (and CdA?), and more details about the power train and dimensions. I love the price!

[Edit: I wonder if part of the cost savings is coming from them using EE Stor batteries/ultracapacitor? These are possibly 1/2 the size and ~1/5th the cost of other cutting edge lithium ion batteries.]

SuperTrooper 09-05-2008 09:17 AM

We've already seen pics of the camoflaged prototype. The wheels look the same size to me.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...hots-3875.html

cfg83 09-05-2008 01:54 PM

1 Attachment(s)
SuperTrooper -

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperTrooper (Post 59064)
We've already seen pics of the camoflaged prototype. The wheels look the same size to me.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...hots-3875.html

Yup, you're right :

Attachment 1695

The plot thickens!

CarloSW2

greenitup 09-05-2008 02:56 PM

what is the mileage, i would rather have an ev, but this is a good step and affordable.

MazdaMatt 09-05-2008 03:02 PM

i'm interested in the weight.

Daox 09-05-2008 03:42 PM

Yeah, I'm more interested in specs too, but we won't get those until the dang thing is released. Honda doesn't like to let our their info ahead of time. I'm also loving the lower price. Does anyone know about what type of IMA system it'll get? Can it be run in parallel yet?

The general shape of the vehicle is the same as the Prius because they are both efficient shapes. Great interior room, utility, and aerodynamics. I wouldn't want a regular sedan, its inferior and less efficient. Other than that, the front end is MUCH different than the Prius.

SuperTrooper 09-05-2008 05:29 PM

I don't think we should get too excited, technology wise, about this new Honda. Honda is married to the IMA concept of hybrid, so don't expect anything with an "electric only" mode. I just came across this article:

Green Car Congress: Honda Provides Additional Details on New Small Hybrid Vehicle

Quote:

In addition to weight reduction, Honda is targeting a significant cost reduction in Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) components that will result in what it characterizes as the most affordable hybrid vehicle to date. This dedicated hybrid vehicle will be offered as a 5-door hatchback with seating for five passengers and will employ an exterior design concept that evokes the FCX Clarity fuel cell vehicle. Along with the Civic Hybrid, the new vehicle will be produced at an expanded IMA production line at Honda’s Suzuka factory in Japan.

Taking advantage of reductions in the size of components, the battery and the internal processing unit will be positioned below the rear cargo area, allowing the hatchback design to provide adequate cargo space to meet the needs of a family. Additionally, various technologies, including a function to assist more fuel efficient driving, are being installed to achieve a further improvement of practical fuel efficiency.
Expect to see the Civic hybrid powertrain wrapped in a new body style to put the squeeze on the Prius. The Insight will have a few advantages over the Prius, but not in the fuel economy area:

1. It's new.

2. The MSRP is $3,500 less than a Prius. Although I'm sure some Honda dealers will add a surcharge. :mad:

3. The first 60,000 Insights will be eligible for the federal Hybrid Vehicle Tax Credit, which expired on the Prius long ago.

Sadly, I don't expect a manual tranny to be availble since it disappeared on the Civic hybrid after 2005.

Will 09-05-2008 06:43 PM

This is interresting, though. I am looking forward to seeing the competition between Honda and Toyota. I figue we will be the ones that benefit.

jamesqf 09-05-2008 07:30 PM

What an effing travesty :-( Not the car itself - I suppose it's a good design for those who want a stodgy 4/5 passenger sedan that happens to be a hybrid - but calling it an Insight?

As for the similarity of the shape to the Prius, an even better example than airplanes would be birds. Ignore the colored feathers, and a robin looks like a blackbird looks like a sparrow looks like whatever other generalist bird you can think of, because physics means there's one best shape for that kind of bird to be.

SuperTrooper 09-06-2008 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesqf (Post 59185)
What an effing travesty :-( Not the car itself - I suppose it's a good design for those who want a stodgy 4/5 passenger sedan that happens to be a hybrid - but calling it an Insight?

As for the similarity of the shape to the Prius, an even better example than airplanes would be birds. Ignore the colored feathers, and a robin looks like a blackbird looks like a sparrow looks like whatever other generalist bird you can think of, because physics means there's one best shape for that kind of bird to be.

Yup, all birds look alike.

http://www.naturephoto-cz.com/photos...ippensis-2.jpg

http://members.aol.com/zoonet/pictures/emu.jpg

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/20...b__200x313.jpg

:D :D :D

greenitup 09-06-2008 09:46 AM

i want honda to come back with the original insight, but improved. I don't need a lot of passenger room, and all the used ones are like $15,000 which is ridiculous. If they made alot of them i bet they could get pretty competitive in price $16,000 if new insight will be only $18,000.

dcb 09-06-2008 10:00 AM

It looks fine to me?!? Not the original insight though, but neither was the reuse of the "nova" name.

IIRC, honda wanted a hybrid that was visually recognizable as a hybrid. And that form has good aero and utility to boot.

The original insight was definitely a cool looking car, and an outstanding performer, but it is the car that was cool, not the name necessarily.

jamesqf 09-06-2008 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperTrooper (Post 59290)
Yup, all birds look alike.

Now is that what I said? No, I said that all GENERALIST birds have pretty much the same shape. Maybe that's not the right ecological term - I mean birds that fill the ecological niche of living around forest edges, and eating seeds, insects, and such. They look alike because their shape is the most efficient for doing their particular "job".

Indeed, we can use your examples as further evidence. Take for instance your emu, a bird whose niche it is to run around open grasslands. Looks an awful lot like an ostrich or a rhea, doesn't it? Just as your pelican shares similar features with a flamingo or stork.

Or consider another example of form-follows-function.

This: Google Image Result for http://ukmoths.org.uk/images/HummingbirdHawkMothSF.jpg

and this: Google Image Result for http://www.dnr.sc.gov/news/Yr2006/june12/hummingbird.jpg

Which is the Prius, and which the Honda copy?

MetroMPG 12-04-2008 09:32 AM

A photo of the production version of the Insius... I mean Priut... I mean Insight! ... is up.

Compare to the concept, from the Honda mini-site for the car (Hybrid – Honda Worldwide Hybrid Technology Site)

http://world.honda.com/NAIAS2009/image/top/4081203.jpg

http://world.honda.com/HybridWorld/i...rge_banner.jpg

Aside from the cosmetic differences and the wheels, note the difference in the bodywork in the rocker panels. Ride height looks higher as well, looking at the center of each car's wheels.

MetroMPG 12-04-2008 09:42 AM

The production version has the exact wheels (and apparently the same rocker bodywork) as the car we saw in the spy shots:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...hots-3875.html

NeilBlanchard 12-04-2008 09:42 AM

Hi,

The side mirrors and the door handles look more conventional, too; as do the headlights. And it has a gas filler door...

NeilBlanchard 12-04-2008 12:33 PM

Hello,

Here's a Flash movie about their new "3 Stage Hybrid" system:

Honda Worldwide | Honda Develops 3-Stage i-VTEC + IMA

Unforgiven 04-17-2009 10:45 AM

Sadly, I find the following info to be a real bummer...

Customers will be most interested in Environmental Protection Agency fuel-economy ratings, which are 40/43 mpg (city/highway). That's 2 mpg less on the highway than the Civic Hybrid, and it trails the Toyota Prius by 8 mpg in the city and 2 mpg on the highway. The Insight qualifies as an Advanced Technology Partial Zero Emission Vehicle (AT-PZEV).

Come on, Insight getting less than the Civic??? And both hybrids...grrrr. Again we are screwed in getting a TRUE fuel mileage champion.

info from the following URL : First Drive: 2010 Honda Insight - MSN Autos


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