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California98Civic 06-29-2013 10:41 PM

Honda Manual Transmission Specifications & Gear Ratios
 
5 Attachment(s)
CIVIC (Fourth-Seventh Generation), FIT (First & Second Generation), and INSIGHT (First Generation).

All info is for the US domestic market unless otherwise noted, such as "JDM" (Japanese Domestic Market). I will edit, correct, and expand this information when I can. If I made errors let me know. See sources note at end of post.





CIVIC (FOURTH GENERATION)
Year & trim levelOEM engine codeVSS / Speedo gearOEM wheel / tire1st Gear2nd3rd4th5thReverseFinal Drive
1988-1991 Civic base modelD15B11,026rpm VSS cable = 60mph155/80-R133.2501.6501.0330.823-3.1533.888
88-91 Civic DX LX / CRXD15B21,026rpm VSS cable = 60mph175/70-R133.2501.8941.2590.9370.7713.1533.722 (88 only) & 3.888 (89-91) / 4.058 DX Wagon
88-91 Civic Si / CRX SiD16A61,026rpm VSS cable = 60mph185/60-R143.2501.894 1.2590.9370.7713.1534.250
88-91 CRX HFD15B6 1,026rpm VSS cable = 60mph165/70-R133.2501.6501.0330.8230.6943.1532.95/3.250 (CA)
Notes: Trans code for all trim levels is L3 (use this for parts and specs ID). 4th gen Civic trannys have cable clutches, but they can be modified to fit the later Civic shifters. One EM member successfully swapped an HF trans onto a fifth gen (VX) engine in his 4th gen Civic body. But the mount for the transmission changed after the fourth generation, so while a fifth/fourth gen engine/trans combination fits into a fourth gen car, the transmission mount would have to be fabricated for that same pair to fit into later Civics. The HF transmission--and maybe the others--had a shorter counter shaft and a different ring gear than the 92-00 Civics.
There was also a JDM DOHC CRX with shorter gearing than any of these listed here.
Honda used white big bore (40mm) speedo gear in the 88-89 transmissions, but also a few have shown up in 96-00 EX transmissions.





CIVIC (FIFTH GENERATION)
Year & trim levelOEM engine codeVSS / Speedo gearOEM wheel / tire1st Gear2nd3rd4th5thReverseFinal Drive
1992-1995 Civic DX LX / Del Sol SD15B7 1026rpm=60mph (VSS) / 90.6mm (Speedo) 175/70-R13 (DX&LX)
3.250 1.761 1.172 0.909 0.7023.1534.058
92-95 Civic Si/ EX / Del Sol Si D16Z6 VTEC 1026rpm=60mph (VSS) / 90.6mm (Speedo) 185/60-R14 or 175/65-R14 3.250 1.900 1.250 0.909 0.750 Si Hatch & Del Sol Si / 0.702 2dr & 4 dr 3.1534.250
92-95 Civic CX/VX D15B8 (CX) D15Z1 (VX) 1026rpm=60mph (VSS) / 90.6mm (Speedo) 165/70-R13 3.250 1.7611.066 0.853 0.7023.1533.250
Notes: Trans code S20 on sticker (P20 stamped on housing).
All have hydraulic clutches.
All 1992-2000 trans have one of two speedo gears: EX/Si/HX use “big bore” black one and others use white one but outer diameter is the same. Honda had used white big bore (40mm) speedo gear in the 88-89 transmissions and a few have shown up in 96-00 EX transmissions.
IDENTIFICATION: Look at the fill plug for a circle cast into the housing.
P20-A000 = DX, CX, VX trans & P20-B000 = Si, EX trans.
To ID use gear ratio test in sixth gen next note below.





CIVIC (SIXTH GENERATION)
Year & trim levelOEM engine codeVSS / Speedo gearOEM wheel / tire1st Gear2nd3rd4th5thReverseFinal Drive
1996-2000 Civic DX LX D16Y7 1025rpm=60pmh (VSS) / 90.6mm (Speedo) 185/65-R14 3.250 1.782 1.172 0.909 0.702 3.153 3.722 Hatch / 4.058 Coupe & Sedan
96-00 Civic HX CX D16Y5 (HX) & D16Y7 (CX) 1025rpm=60pmh (VSS) / 90.6mm (Speedo) 185/65-R143.250 1.782 1.172 0.909 0.702 3.153 3.722
96-00 Civic EX D16Y8 VTEC (D16Z7) 1025rpm=60pmh (VSS) / 90.6mm (Speedo) 185/65-R143.2501.909 1.250 0.909 0.702 3.153 4.250 Sdn & Cpe
Notes: Trans case code S40 (on white sticker, used for parts ID).
All sixth gen Civics had hydraulic clutches.
All 1992-2000 trans have one of two speedo gears: EX/Si/HX use “big bore” black one and others use white one but outer diameter is the same. Honda had used white big bore (40mm) speedo gear in the 88-89 transmissions and a few have shown up in 96-00 EX transmissions. A previous version of this post listed a 96-00 HB EX with FD 4.058 but it seems not to have been sold in the USDM.
IDENTIFYING RATIOS (Example 3.722 final drive). Get an old clutch, mark it, & place the mark at noon. Select 4th gear (0.909). Mark differential. 3.722 * 0.909 = 3.38, so clutch should do 3.38 revs for one rev of differential & clutch stopping 4 o’clock.





CIVIC (SEVENTH GENERATION)
Year & trim levelOEM engine codeVSS / Speedo gearOEM wheel / tire1st Gear2nd3rd4th5thReverseFinal Drive
01-05 Civic D17A1 - 185/70-R14 3.462 1.870 1.241 0.970 0.711 3.231 4.111
01-05 Civic HX D17A6 VTEC-E - 185/70-R14 3.461 1.750 1.166 0.857 0.710 3.230 3.842
01-05 Civic EX D17A2 VTEC - 185/65-R15 3.143 1.870 1.241 0.970 0.757 3.231 4.412 (also 4.111)
2003-2005 Civic HybridLDA1 (1.3L & IMA)-185/70-R143.4621.8701.2410.9120.7113.231 3.600
Notes: The EX final drive ratio is listed at honda.com with both the 4.111 final drive and 4.412 final drive, depending on which year one checks. All seventh gen Civics had hydraulic clutches, but with cable shifters instead of the shift rods the fifth and sixth gen models had.
Trans case code SLW on sticker PLW on metal (Hybrid trans code SZB).
Successfully swapping seventh gen (2001-2005) civic engine or trans onto a fifth/sixth gen engine or trans is possible but complicated by the differences in shifters and the seventh gen Civic's immobilizer. Wiring and shifter adaptation might be required.



FIT (FIRST GENERATION)
Year & trim levelOEM engine codeVSS / Speedo gearOEM wheel / tire1st Gear2nd3rd4th5thReverseFinal Drive
2007 & 2008 Fit / Fit Sport L15A1 2-stage i-VTEC - 175/65-R14 (base) 195/55-R15 (Sport) 3.462 1.870 1.321 0.970 0.757 3.230 (3.231 in 2008) 4.294 (JDM 4.1)
Notes: Trans code SMJM
These transmissions do not bolt onto D-series Civics.




FIT (SECOND GENERATION)
Year & trim levelOEM engine codeVSS / Speedo gearOEM wheel / tire1st Gear2nd3rd4th5thReverseFinal Drive
09-11 Fit / Fit Sport L15A7 3-stage i-VTEC - 175/65 -R15 (base) 185/55-R16 (Sport) 3.308 1.870 1.303 0.949 0.727 3.308 4.62
2012 & 2013 Fit/ Fit Sport L15A7 3-stage i-VTEC - 175/65 -R15 (base) 185/55-R16 (Sport) 3.308 1.870 1.303 0.949 0.727 3.308 4.625
Notes: Trans code SMJM
These transmissions do not bolt onto D-series Civics.



INSIGHT (FIRST GENERATION)
Year & trim levelOEM engine codeVSS / Speedo gearOEM wheel / tire1st Gear2nd3rd4th5thReverseFinal Drive
00-06 Insight Hybrid ECA1 - 165/65SR-14 3.461 1.750 1.096 0.857 0.710 3.230 3.208


Civic CRX 4th Gen Trans Standards and Service Limits (from Honda FSM)

Civic 5th Gen Trans Standards and Service Limits (from Honda FSM)

Civic 6th Gen Trans Standards and Service Limits (from Honda FSM)

Civic 7th Gen Trans Standards and Service Limits, p.1 of 2 (from Honda FSM)

Civic 7th Gen Trans Standards and Service Limits, p.2 of 2 (from Honda FSM)

SOURCES:

CIVIC: All Civic engine codes from Wikipedia “d-series” entry (June 22, 2013). Civic VSS and tire size data from the 1988-1900 Honda CRX FSM, the 1990 Honda CRX FSM supplement, the 1992-1995 Honda Civic FSM, and the 1996-1998 Honda Civic FSM. Fourth gen countershaft note from "Synchrotech" on Honda-tech.com (posted July 28, 2009). Speedo gear sizes (1992-2000) are as described and measured by Honda-tech.com member “94EG8” (posted March 27, 2013). 88-89 EX white big bore speedo gear & its use in some 92-00 transmissions as described by "Mista Bone" here on Ecomodder.com (Sept. 10, 2019). Seventh Gen Civic trans case code information from AMSOIL's “my garage” database (June 25, 2013). Many of the 4th-6th trans ratios are as listed at this chart (accessed March 27, 2013). Fourth Gen Civic Wagon final drive info is the 1990 Civic Wagon Manual (2wd & 4wd) as cited by ecomodder.com member "Gasoline Fumes" in a PM (July 4, 2013). Seventh generation trans ratios from Honda.com (accessed June 22, 2013, March 18, 2019). Civic Hybrid transmission ratios as posted by Cleanmpg.com member "xcel" (3-14-2006, accessed July 1, 2013). 2003-2005 Civic Hybrid hydraulic clutch identified using parts.sonshonda.com database (July 2, 2013).

FIT: All Fit gear ratio information is from Honda.com (June 23, 2013). All Fit engine info is from Wikipedia’s “L-Series” engine entry (June 23, 2013) and "Palemelanesian" on ecomodder.com (July 1, 2013). All Fit trans code information is from AMSOIL's “my garage” database (June 25, 2013). Gear ratio test information is from member "90civicstdgold" at ecomodder.com (posted July 2012, accessed February 1, 2013).

INSIGHT: Transmission gear ratios from 2000-2006 Insight Factory manual as found in "HondaInsightPDFs.zip" at Simple File Sharing and Storage. (accessed 7-7-2013)

WD40 06-30-2013 09:32 AM

Thanks for the info California98Civic.
So now I need to look for a 88-91 CRX HF D15B6 5 speed transmission ...
I read that the 88 has different spline, so it would need a matching clutch.
Other years match the VX clutch.
The difference in gearing would make 5th gear at 1700 RPM doing close to 56 vs the current 1900 RPM at close to 56.
That should pay for itself pretty fast as I currently get approx. 80-95 MPG at 56.
I see a few on CL in the USA, but none in Canada yet, but I will be searching.

California98Civic 06-30-2013 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WD40 (Post 378521)
Thanks for the info California98Civic.
So now I need to look for a 88-91 CRX HF D15B6 5 speed transmission ...
I read that the 88 has different spline, so it would need a matching clutch.
Other years match the VX clutch.
The difference in gearing would make 5th gear at 1700 RPM doing close to 56 vs the current 1900 RPM at close to 56.
That should pay for itself pretty fast as I currently get approx. 80-95 MPG at 56.
I see a few on CL in the USA, but none in Canada yet, but I will be searching.

If that chance does not emerge because of costs related to getting both the trans in good condition and a clutch you could also look into whether the 4th gen HF final drive can swap into the fifth gen VX tranny. Now that I know the VSS gears in the 4th and fifth gen spin the same, I would bet the speedo gears are the same too, as they are for fifth and sixth gen Civics. Since the Cali HF trannys had the same final drive as the VX, I wonder if the 2.95 final drive from the VX would swap. That would give you nearly all of the RPM change you describe. It would be a bigger job maybe, but could be interesting too.

WD40 06-30-2013 03:23 PM

A quick google got me this answer ..
The Ring gear is the same but the countershafts are different. The 88-91 HF C/S is shorter than the 92-95 VX and has a shorter bearing section for the 1st gear. :(

California98Civic 06-30-2013 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WD40 (Post 378549)
A quick google got me this answer ..
The Ring gear is the same but the countershafts are different. The 88-91 HF C/S is shorter than the 92-95 VX and has a shorter bearing section for the 1st gear. :(

Thanks. I found that opinion on honda-tech just now, following your lead. Synchrotech is an excellent authority, so I edited the OP.

samwichse 07-01-2013 02:46 PM

Jeez, just look at what they've been doing to the Fit M/T!

Top gear ratio just gets worse and worse from 2007.

Sam

PaleMelanesian 07-01-2013 03:15 PM

Really?!! I didn't realize they further shortened the final drive in the '12 model Fit. Makes sense (in the weird honda engineer world) because they added some sound-proofing weight.

For the record, the 1st gen Fit went from 2002(3?) to 2008, but was only here in the USA for 07-08. '12 is a cosmetic makeover of the 2nd gen which started in 09.

Yep. The gear ratios are bad. It's amazing what you can overcome with pulse & glide, though. ;)

California98Civic 07-01-2013 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samwichse (Post 378661)
Jeez, just look at what they've been doing to the Fit M/T!

Top gear ratio just gets worse and worse from 2007.

Sam

Right? Makes you wonder what can be done with custom gearing or better yet whether 1990s gears, any of them, might be adaptable, swappable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleMelanesian (Post 378664)
Really?!! I didn't realize they further shortened the final drive in the '12 model Fit. Makes sense (in the weird honda engineer world) because they added some sound-proofing weight.

Amazing to see it tabulated like this, huh? Brings clarity. But if you could combined the 07/08 FD with the 09-present fifth gear, you'd be close to a 1990s Civic DX (but not quite there).

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleMelanesian (Post 378664)
For the record, the 1st gen Fit went from 2002(3?) to 2008, but was only here in the USA for 07-08. '12 is a cosmetic makeover of the 2nd gen which started in 09.

Do you have a citation? Because when I looked into it, I found claims that the 07 model year introduced here in late '06 is regarded as second generation. I don't really believe that, and my gut agrees with you, but I saw not evidence other than how I might interpret the apparent changes in the gearing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleMelanesian (Post 378664)
Yep. The gear ratios are bad. It's amazing what you can overcome with pulse & glide, though. ;)

:)

PaleMelanesian 07-01-2013 04:37 PM

Quickest source I could find was wikipedia.
Quote:

Although the second generation Honda Fit was introduced in the Japanese market in 2007, the first generation Fit was still sold in the North American market for the 2008 model year. The second generation Fit for the North American market was unveiled on 19 March 2008, at the 2008 New York International Auto Show for the 2009 model year.
Oh, and the 1st generation engine is coded L15A1. It's a 2-stage i-VTEC with max 109 hp. The 2nd generation's L15A7 engine gets a 3-stage i-VTEC that boosts top power to 117 hp. (yay?)

I confirmed your gear ratio chart, though. They DID change the final drive for the 2012 mid-cycle refresh. (4.62 to 4.625)
http://automobiles.honda.com/fit/specifications.aspx
http://automobiles.honda.com/tools/v...ModelYear=2008

PaleMelanesian 07-01-2013 04:52 PM

Oh, and for the D-series transmissions, couldn't they stamp a different code on them? Why mark all the different ratio transmissions with the same code? Grrrr.

serialk11r 07-01-2013 07:22 PM

If you think that gearing is bad, you haven't seen a Toyota "sports" model (though they now say they are using 6 speeds on the Corolla, hooray! The regular Corolla had pretty questionably short gearing too). When Honda gives a car extremely short gears you at least can cruise with less than 50% of the rev limit.

California98Civic 07-02-2013 09:03 AM

I found a good source on the ratios for the 2003-2005 Civic Hybrid manual transmission and added it to the table in post 1. Was also able to get engine code, oem wheel sizes, and transmission code. Anyone know where to find a free copy of the Honda Factory Service Manual for the seventh gen Civic and for the Fit? The sites I found want cash or ask for credit card info in a sketchy way.

PaleMelanesian 07-02-2013 09:35 AM

I wish I knew of such sources. Good luck searching.

Also, I think they used a cable clutch on the 03-05 Civic hybrid. A friend who had one had a failure and it was not hydraulic like I expected.

California98Civic 07-02-2013 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleMelanesian (Post 378771)
I wish I knew of such sources. Good luck searching.

Also, I think they used a cable clutch on the 03-05 Civic hybrid. A friend who had one had a failure and it was not hydraulic like I expected.

Yeah, it seems maybe to have some completely unique clutch mechanism, but I don't think cable, or at least I have not found reference to cable yet. What I liked about putting it side-by-side with the conventional seventh gen Civics is to see the gearing change: the Civic Hybrid has mostly about the same gearing for 1-3 and reverse and taller gearing for 4th, 5th, and (especially) the final drive.

I have the 4th, 5th, and 6th gen Civic Honda factory manuals now (free) but the newer ones seem more difficult to get... any tips anyone has will be welcome. I want VSS data and other specs.

Gasoline Fumes 07-03-2013 07:27 AM

The 4th gen 2WD Wagons had a 4.058 final drive.

justme1969 07-03-2013 07:54 AM

I know 7 gen auto is crapola in worst degree but need to do it for son I gave him the 02
when it crapped up on me so my question is is there a better auto trans for this 02 lx?
he loves it and wants to keep it forever so may break down for upgraded unit.
Top gear or is this a rubber band box.

California98Civic 07-03-2013 12:22 PM

I added the first gen Honda Insight ratios to the list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleMelanesian (Post 378771)
Also, I think they used a cable clutch on the 03-05 Civic hybrid. A friend who had one had a failure and it was not hydraulic like I expected.

I think I found a reliable source that shows infact that it had the hydraulic clutch: CLUTCH MASTER CYLINDER. Fits: Honda Civic MX (HYBRID) Hybrid 5MT | Sons Honda

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gasoline Fumes (Post 378934)
The 4th gen 2WD Wagons had a 4.058 final drive.

Interesting. I would love to see the full set of ratios, in order to know if there were any other difference, small or large, in the other ratios for the Wagon. Do you have them? Maybe from the factory FSM or some other reliable source I can cite?

PaleMelanesian 07-03-2013 12:28 PM

Maybe it was the shifter instead? That looks conclusive.

Gasoline Fumes 07-04-2013 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by California98Civic (Post 378964)
Interesting. I would love to see the full set of ratios, in order to know if there were any other difference, small or large, in the other ratios for the Wagon. Do you have them? Maybe from the factory FSM or some other reliable source I can cite?

The rest of the ratios are the same as the DX/Si. I have the Wagon FSM.

hawk2100n 07-28-2013 08:43 PM

Any inputs on a reasonable price on a good used 5/6th gen CX/HX/DX transmission? My S40 input shaft is making a horrendous sound and was quoted $2600 for a rebuilt from AutoZone and $330 for a rebuild kit. I'm really short on time and would rather drop in and drop out a trans than fight a rebuild.

cbaber 07-28-2013 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawk2100n (Post 382506)
Any inputs on a reasonable price on a good used 5/6th gen CX/HX/DX transmission? My S40 input shaft is making a horrendous sound and was quoted $2600 for a rebuilt from AutoZone and $330 for a rebuild kit. I'm really short on time and would rather drop in and drop out a trans than fight a rebuild.

You should easily find a used transmission on craigslist for around $250. If you know its the input shaft bearing, replacement is relatively simple and the part is cheap. There are guides on the Honda forums for the replacement procedure.

California98Civic 07-28-2013 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawk2100n (Post 382506)
Any inputs on a reasonable price on a good used 5/6th gen CX/HX/DX transmission? My S40 input shaft is making a horrendous sound and was quoted $2600 for a rebuilt from AutoZone and $330 for a rebuild kit. I'm really short on time and would rather drop in and drop out a trans than fight a rebuild.

What cbaber says in above reply and Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market ... that's where I got my 1993 CX trans with 93K miles for $300. I had been watching for quite a while, but I just checked for VX trannys in the Southeast and see a few listed as "A" grade in GA and FL for under $400 ... there was one really good looking one with a very low price and very low miles in VA.

Good luck.

hawk2100n 07-29-2013 09:31 AM

Thanks for the info. I'm pursuing a lead on craigslist for a used EX coupe transmission with 58k miles right now which should have the same 4.058 final drive as my DX sedan. I'd love to get a CX transmission in the car but unfortunately I am moving in 2 weeks, I have to pack up my house and this is my only car so I’m bumming rides off my friends until I can get this taken care of. Gear ratios aren’t bad as I’m around 3250 rpm at 80 mph so I’ll just have to take what I can get. Thanks to this thread I know what models to look for. And thanks for the help guys. I really appreciate it.

elhigh 07-29-2013 11:28 AM

I'm sorry I didn't see this sooner. Thanks for posting it!

Wow, the gears on my HCH are tall; only the Insight is taller. And with the super-dinky little 1.3, it's just ticking over at about 2100-2200rpm @ 60. If it weren't for the IMA, the 0-60 time would be measured with a calendar.

Sven7 08-06-2013 11:33 PM

Ok, so the obvious question is, how does one get a hold of an HF 5th gear, and which transmissions will it swap to? I have a spare DX hydro trans I'd like to build up.

(Thanks for the info by the way!)

nitebluesky 10-10-2013 03:04 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is an example of my 89 dx tranny on my d15z1 motor in my 89 dx sedan. at 77 mph at top dead center i heard is how you can tell what tranny you have. Err final drive. Its at 3400ish rpm. I swapped in my Hf the next day and at 77mph it drop it down to 2300.

nitebluesky 10-10-2013 03:14 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Here is my picture of the final drive of a 1991 crx hf. 65 teeth, and 22 teeth on the pinion gear. I pick the tranny up from pick n pull a month and a half ago. Drop it off at the mechanic. Rebuilt it with Honda OEM parts for $190 bearing kit and he check the syncros. Here is my 91 HF mated to my 93 d15z1 in my 89 civic sedan dx.

christofoo 11-02-2013 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by California98Civic (Post 378478)
CIVIC (Fourth-Seventh Generation), FIT (First & Second Generation), and INSIGHT (First Generation).

All info is for the US domestic market unless otherwise noted, such as "JDM" (Japanese Domestic Market). I will edit, correct, and expand this information when I can. If I made errors let me know. See sources note at end of post.
...

What a great collection of info! There needs to be a 10X-thanks for posts like this. Separately, I wish top gear ratio was commonly listed along with engine displacement.

In particular I've been wondering what I would need to do to get a taller gear in the 97. Funny, the car is badged as LX (and has the OEM A/C), but the drivetrain is EX: D16Y8 and 4.25 (3000 RPM @ 70 MPH). No wonder I felt like I was driving the shortest Civic gears available: I am (but not as short as the 89 Corolla). I can confirm P&G/EOC works wonders, and for a 5MPH spread I'd guess it's only a few dozen feet of dithering, so unlike some others I don't feel like it's a big deal in moderate traffic, love my killswitch, but there is still a lot to be said for taller gears.

So now I just need to figure out if the 92-95 VX/CX final drive can swap into my tranny, or else presumably I need to follow car-part.com for the whole tranny and plan a full swap. ... probably just going to wait until the original clutch eventually gives up though, get those things done together.

California98Civic 11-03-2013 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christofoo (Post 397987)
What a great collection of info! There needs to be a 10X-thanks for posts like this. ...

So now I just need to figure out if the 92-95 VX/CX final drive can swap into my tranny, or else presumably I need to follow car-part.com for the whole tranny and plan a full swap. ... probably just going to wait until the original clutch eventually gives up though, get those things done together.

Glad you find it useful! I actually have a VX final drive gear and countershaft I have long thought i would swap into my 98 DX transmission as part of a general rebuild. I'm told it should work. I think putting into an EX transmision would be even better because lower gears are much shorter thanin the VX, while 5th gear is about the same. I suspect my 93 CX trans is not as good in the city as my98 DX trans was, because the gearing is so tall,especially the transition from 2cd to 3rd, but also first.

darcane 11-04-2013 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by California98Civic (Post 378478)
Notes: All seventh gen Civics had hydraulic clutches.
Trans case code SLW on sticker PLW on metal (Hybrid trans code SZB).
No one has successfully swapped a seventh gen (2001-2005) civic trans onto a fifth/sixth gen engine, or earlier trans onto seventh gen engine.

Wrong.

D17A2 in a '95 Civic using D16 tranny

There is very little reason to do this swap, so very few people do it. Shift linkages are very different (cables vs. rods), so you can't easily swap one to the other. But, if you try putting a D16 in a 7th gen Civic or a D17 in a 6th gen Civic, the engines and tranny will bolt up fine.

There's a lot of misinformation on this out there, so it's hard to find out the details. The link above includes pictures of the D17 with a D16 tranny.

darcane 11-04-2013 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by California98Civic (Post 378766)
I found a good source on the ratios for the 2003-2005 Civic Hybrid manual transmission and added it to the table in post 1. Was also able to get engine code, oem wheel sizes, and transmission code. Anyone know where to find a free copy of the Honda Factory Service Manual for the seventh gen Civic and for the Fit? The sites I found want cash or ask for credit card info in a sketchy way.

I don't know where you can find one for free...

But if there is specific info you need, I can look it up. I have a FSM for the '01-'05 Civic. I forget if it covers the Hybrid or not.

California98Civic 11-05-2013 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darcane (Post 398231)
I don't know where you can find one for free...

But if there is specific info you need, I can look it up. I have a FSM for the '01-'05 Civic. I forget if it covers the Hybrid or not.

If you can get the VSS speed specs for me, that would be a nice addition. The 4th, 5th, and 6th generation Civics have VSS that spin about 1,025 rpm to report 60 mph. Any info on the speedo gears in the trannys too. Anything that confirms or corrects the7th gen gear ratios. Any copy of the specs and service limits page (as I posted for the other generations) would also be a cool addition.

As for that link to a 7th gen civic running a 6th gen tranny you posted a few posts ago, I have seen it. Notice that the thread never concluded. the guy just went silent at a certain point during the process. I didn't find that very convincing. I don't think it proves the swap. You do for some reason?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sven7 (Post 383891)
Ok, so the obvious question is, how does one get a hold of an HF 5th gear, and which transmissions will it swap to? I have a spare DX hydro trans I'd like to build up. (Thanks for the info by the way!)

It would actually be the final drive you would be most interested in. Check carpart.com

darcane 11-06-2013 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by California98Civic (Post 398404)
If you can get the VSS speed specs for me, that would be a nice addition. The 4th, 5th, and 6th generation Civics have VSS that spin about 1,025 rpm to report 60 mph. Any info on the speedo gears in the trannys too. Anything that confirms or corrects the7th gen gear ratios. Any copy of the specs and service limits page (as I posted for the other generations) would also be a cool addition.

Press release from Honda in 2001 that confirms gear ratios (except Hybrid, it wasn't offered yet).

I'll see what I can find on the rest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by California98Civic (Post 398404)
As for that link to a 7th gen civic running a 6th gen tranny you posted a few posts ago, I have seen it. Notice that the thread never concluded. the guy just went silent at a certain point during the process. I didn't find that very convincing. I don't think it proves the swap. You do for some reason?

Well, the fact that it doesn't run is irrelevant to whether the tranny will bolt up. The reason nobody does this swap is because the electronics on the D17 are a pain to get sorted out especially with the immobilizer. This was just one of many I've seen, and it had decent pictures of the two mated together where you could clearly identify the engine and tranny.

How about one (with pics) of the opposite:
2005 EM2 old school d-series swap
D16 with D17 tranny in an EM2.

California98Civic 11-06-2013 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darcane (Post 398482)
Well, the fact that it doesn't run is irrelevant to whether the tranny will bolt up. The reason nobody does this swap is because the electronics on the D17 are a pain to get sorted out especially with the immobilizer. This was just one of many I've seen, and it had decent pictures of the two mated together where you could clearly identify the engine and tranny.

How about one (with pics) of the opposite:
2005 EM2 old school d-series swap
D16 with D17 tranny in an EM2.

That's one that I did not see, but it's a D17 tranny (shorter gearing) on the D16 engine. That's not the most desirable swap, from the EM perspective. So, clearly it does bolt up, but the purpose of this thread is to help people identify swaps for EM purposes, so although this one bolts up the shifter differences and the electronics make adapting one of the taller-geared transmissions, such as the 92-95 VX/CX to a newer D17 engine relatively complex.

Thanks for the input. I adapted the OP. :thumbup:

Oh! I have seen that press release already. It is part of what I cited in sources. But I was hoping you might be able to get the VSS info and/or speedo gear info from the FSM you mentioned.

darcane 11-07-2013 08:59 PM

Looked for a while but couldn't find anything on the VSS ratio. Here's the specs/limits for the manual tranny from my manual as well as the page on the gear ratios.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-da...ecs-page-1.png
http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-da...ecs-page-2.png
http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-da...ecs-page-3.png
(sorry for the crappy scan)

I can e-mail higher res pics or zoom in on the important bit if you'd like.

California98Civic 01-01-2014 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darcane (Post 398634)
Looked for a while but couldn't find anything on the VSS ratio. ... I can e-mail higher res pics or zoom in on the important bit if you'd like.

Thanks for looking and for the PM and the email with the higher res images. I have added the higher res versions to the OP. Thanks!

tony_2018 02-03-2014 11:34 AM

Just a heads up. Honda will be implementing 8sp DCT (Dual Clutch Transmissions) into there cars. We probably won't be seeing them until 2015-16. It seems they've been testing it out for awhile an will introducing them, including there turbo line up (1.3l turbo, 1.5l turbo, 2.0l turbo) in the following yrs. At the time I read it they had a v6 honda accord with the transmission for testing and the editors seem to like it. This really sounds promising.

some_other_dave 02-03-2014 02:22 PM

Interesting. I wonder how it's different than the ones VW and Porsche use? Honda has a major case of NIH ("Not Invented Here") and they are usually very reluctant to use someone else's technology. And pay royalties, of course.

-soD

PaleMelanesian 02-03-2014 04:28 PM

They're putting a 7-speed DCT in the Fit hybrid, Japanese model. It may be in production already. If it's not, it will be soon. Not for USA consumption, though. :(

Actually, give me a manual any day. :)

tony_2018 02-03-2014 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by some_other_dave (Post 409781)
Interesting. I wonder how it's different than the ones VW and Porsche use? Honda has a major case of NIH ("Not Invented Here") and they are usually very reluctant to use someone else's technology. And pay royalties, of course.

-soD

At least they did try to make an attempt and failed so they outsourced it. Clutch packs just don't do it no more, or never did.


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