Honda to rely on GM powertrains
 

Honda will be purchasing EV batteries and motors from GM for the next few years at least.

Any thoughts? Seems like a pretty big deal and a reversal of the status quo from several decades ago.

"Acura said not only would GM help to develop the two SUVs, but it will also be responsible for producing them."

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a3...ars-for-honda/

Without reading the article, I can't say I'm terribly surprised. After owning two GM EV/hybrids, I can honestly that they're good vehicles. While the volt and yukon hybrid are very different in size and technology, they're good at what they are.

Honda crapped the bed on hybrid batteries more than once, not surprising since they let themselves fall behind

They may be in it for the battery technology.

Makes sense to rely on a bigger player to make compliance cars. Ultium is promising, and GM has solid electrics.

Honda will go in house when the timing is right.

Honda and GM used to exchange engines, with GM supplying its Isuzu-designed Circle-L engine for Honda to use in the Euro-spec Civic and receiving a Honda V6 gasser meant to be fitted to the early Saturn Vue.

Honda was (still is?) big into fuel cell development. Which appears to be (in my simplified understanding) a full EV with an 'alternative' power source. I would be surprised if they abandon their existing engineering and processes to outsource. This may be a stop-gap thing while they change direction (pivot?) to full-electric and put less effort into Fuel cells.

Since it appears that battery supply is an issue for almost everyone, I would guess that this is a way to access GM's battery supply chain. I'd bet that Honda is still doing their own thing in preparation for 2028 and beyond ... or whenever they can secure access to battery supply ...

I'd still not hold my breath for Honda to follow the full-BEV bandwagon. IIRC some of their first FCEV developments had been based on BEVs converted to FCEVs.

It makes sense in the near term. Honda doesn't need EVs to meet global regulations. They have been clear that they see hybrids and plug-in hybrids to be the best short to medium term solution to meet global regulations.

Honda is working on a new dedicated electric car platform but it won't reach production until the second half of the decade.

Honda is also a smaller player than most people think. Yes, they sell 5 million vehicle a year but their largest competitors sell twice that many. They need to pick their R&D spending wisely and can't afford to spend a lot of money on EVs before they are mainstream.

Besides meeting global regulations, nowadays a hybrid remains safer in the eyes of the average customer than going full-EV. On a sidenote, considering the cost of high-voltage EV tech, it does surprise me that Honda doesn't even seem to consider the low-voltage hybrid and electric tech developed by Valeo which is often pointed out to allow a more affordable implementation of electrified (either BEV or hybrid) powertrains in general.

When you say "low voltage" are you talking about 12V or 48V?

I was talking about 48V, even though some BAS-Hybrid setups resort to 12V.

So far Honda has been using full hybrids. I'm curious if when they go all hybrid in 2025 if that will include 48V mild hybrids.

Bosch, Continental, and Valeo all make 48V systems for OEMs.

As long as the mild-hybrid approach may suffice to address compliance with the regulations in countries where budget constraints are taken more seriously by the customers, I'm sure this approach will be included.


Sure, but Valeo is the only I can remember that is developing full-hybrid 48V setups instead of keeping such voltage only within mild-hybrid tech.

Do you have a link for their 48V full hybrid system? I've only seen the mild hybrids.

AFAIK the 48V full-hybrid setup is still undergoing tests.

Check the video on this link:
https://www.valeo.com/en/offering-a-...rtrain-system/

It's tough to get enough horsepower out of 48V.

1 Hp is about 750W, or around 15 amps at 48V (15 amps works at 50V).

10 HP - 150A

100 HP - 1500A (!!)

The transistors used do have some losses. Power relates to the square of the current. So your cooling system has to get rid of all that heat.

Golf cart style vehicles top out at 500 - 1000 amps for a few seconds, and run in the 100 - 200 amp range when cruising.

I don't think that a freeway vehicle can get enough current out of 48V for long enough to matter. The VW beetle used to get up to 55 mph with .. was it 30 HP? Not many vehicles around that light or with decent aero ...

Interesting. I see in another article it is limited to 60 km/h. They have basically taken their 48V mild-hybrid and added a bigger battery to give up to 40 km of slow speed EV use.

Considering most regular hybrids would kick the ICE in above that speed, it doesn't sound bad.


Seems enough both for compliance with regulations favoring hybrids in Europe and the needs of urban traffic.