Honda's new "i-DCD" hybrid system: bye-bye "IMA", hello Prius competition (finally!)
 

Honda is finally (yay, finally!) ditching its IMA (Integrated Motor Assist) hybrid system and coming out with several new versions that should siginficantly improve efficiency AND finally challenge Toyota's dominance of the hybrid segment.

Green Car Reports posted today about driving a development version of Honda's new "small car" hybrid system (they're also developing different hybrid systems for bigger vehicles). They drove a Fit mule fitted with it.

Main features:

• single motor
• 7-speed dual-clutch automated transmission, with "a very wide gear-ratio span"
• which means: better acceleration, sharper throttle response, and "normal" gear change experience
• the engine can be de-coupled from the transmission while under way, meaning:
• (1) this new system is a "full" hybrid - capable of "EV mode" since the e-motor can drive the gearbox/wheels while the engine (ICE) is completely shut down
• (2) this de-coupling means "pure" coasting/freewheeling is available
• 30 percent better MPG compared to Honda's existing IMA hybrid system

I think Honda is being very shrewd with its choice of using the dual-clutch 7-spd automatic, even if the engineers know it's probably not the most efficient approach.

Why? Because mainstream auto journalists generaly HATE the CVT driving experience and always whine about it. I predict that based mainly on this, Honda is going to start overwhelmingly winning the "magazine shootout" comparisons against Toyota. Good marketing move.

I also think Honda underestimated the quiet appeal of "EV mode" driving to hybrid owners (even if most owners don't know how to use it to best effect to improve MPG). They lost sales to Toyota as a result. This fixes that.

More details:

Honda Details Future Small-Car Hybrid System; We Drive It

This is great news. IMA just wasn't enough to really compete. I hope they can give other makers a run for their money in the hybrid market now (and sell more than a couple hundred a month).

Yeah, Honda's IMA sales have been DISMAL!

If I'm not making this up, some months they've been selling fewer Insights than Nissan has been selling Leafs. CRZ sales have been even worse.

I hope focus isn't shifting away from hydrogen. But, this does seems pomising.

Oh and the "i-DCD" stands for "intelligent dual clutch drive".

This is a pretty cool solution! I don't think anyone else uses it right?
What I'd love to see is a sequential manual box with automated engine decoupling, but that will never happen :/

And come on, CVTs are not the greatest thing ever. They have poor range of gear ratios, more parasitic loss, and higher weight.

Incredibly stupid, if you ask me, to give up on the only driveable hybrid system in favor of a copy of the badly-designed Toyota. Guess I'll be driving my Insight for a long, long time.

How in the world is this a copy of the Toyota system? The Toyota system has a power split transmission, this has a normal transmission. All they've done is add an extra clutch (and some more gears).

Agreed 100%, if by "incredibly stupid" you mean "likely to sell in significant numbers". :D

Yes! You, me, and the eleven other people who bought one!

OK, what I meant was that it's copying the BEHAVIOR of the Toyota system: it's an automatic and has the inefficient electric-only mode.

As for why Honda doesn't sell more, I think that has more to do with the fact that they didn't manage to create a dedicated image brand like the Prius. Even the other day, my neighbor was asking me how my "Prius" was holding up. (It's a 1st-gen Insight, which I've only had for about 8 years now.)

INefficient electric mode? Many plugin electrics/hybrids are ~85% efficient plug-to-wheels; while the Prius' engine is just 38% efficient, at best.

My opinion on why Honda hasn't sold very many hybrids is that the Prius beats the Insight (2nd gen) by 8-10mpg while seating 5 vs 4 for the Insight.

I'm looking forward to hearing the details on the new i-DCT hybrid system. Competition means improvements all around.

Honda has a DCT motorcycle that seems pretty slick, I read about it here. (Honda Crosstourer) I think the car i-DCD thing is maybe an application of this.

Great read, I see they mention the 3 motor thing I posted about earlier in Honda 3 Motors in 1 Car

For conversation starters....you don't suppose Apple will sue them for calling it i-DCD do you? Does Apple own all things i?

Chaz - noted & corrected in the thread title. Thanks.

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Note Honda's statement about the 30% efficiency increase over previous IMA hybrid system. Think it's safe to say electric mode isn't making things worse.

Hydrogen isn't going to happen.
The drawbacks are even worse than for electric cars.

That's right, the Prius is a bigger and more practical car than even the Civic Hybrid I think. I sat in a rental 2nd gen Prius and it felt rather roomy inside compared to most compact cars. The hatch helps with storage space a ton too.

i-DCT sounds pretty good to me. To be honest, I think the clutched electric motor setup is how it should've been all along.

If they can couple the efficient lean burn system they had on the insight I with a MT and a clutched EV side instead I would be all for it :)

erm...

That said if their system works as well as a Prius but their motor has lower BSFC we can only hope they eventually make their way to having a MT version like every other Honda :)

Yes, inefficient. Especially for a non-plugin, but even with plugin it's usually more efficient to use engine and electric motor together than to use one, then the other.

As an aftermarket plug in insight owner I choose to abuse the undocumented "ev" mode to coast longer once accelerated to speed by the mix of the two per the onboard computer. Of course having a higher state of charge the system automatically mixes in more electrical power or assist than it would otherwise. The limit is similar to the prius 2/3 in the fact its only under light throttle, otherwise the ice kicks back on and both are used.

I imagine having the plug in ability may cause a skew in mpg from the drivers stand point trying to conserve the energy since its limited or use more of the ev feature.

Then of course you got the other fact most hybrids give best fuel economy when you use the least of the electric as possible. :eek:

I like the fact I can keep up with traffic never exceeding 80 mph and still clocking 54 mpg on the mid. :thumbup:

Could jamesqf (or anyone else) tell me what's inefficient about even only?

When I'm lucky enough to borrow mom's Fusion, I simply capture regent charge during the inevitable (I live in the Appalachians) descent, and run ev-only to the 50% SOC the Fusion likes to maintain.

That's better than efficient; it's effectively "found energy."

I agree that running EV is dumb--if you reasonably forsee having to burn Dino juice to recharge. I suppose if you lived somewhere billiard-table flat, you might almost never use EV optimally.

But if you live somewhere "steeper than the speed limit"?

I agree. Can you say "Hindenburg"?

I'm not saying hydrogen can't be done safely. But i think there is considerable consumer resistance. With the added challenge of launching a new distribution network, hydrogen has a big uphill climb here.

Anyway, I'm very glad to read of Honda's new scheme.

One possible benefit that's been hinted at between the lines: so far as I know, most (all??) electronic dual clutch transmissions also offer paddle shifters for functionality close to what you get from a traditional standard. I see it more as an automatically shifting standard rather than an automatic with clutches.

Well EV mode if i'm correct in the Prius and Insight spins the shutdown engine giving pumping losses as well as propelling the car. Which is inefficient.

From what i gather the new system will decouple from the engine, allowing all the electricity to power the motor and move the car. The better half of it is your regen can be much more efficient cause you get rid of engine braking, and transmission loses.

In Honda's IMA system with EV mode, the engine always turns, whether it's running or not.

Toyota's system only turns the engine in EV mode above ~40 mph. Below that, the engine is stopped, minimizing EV mode losses compared to Honda's (previous) approach.

Awesome article!

I do have one question, why do the magazines like Consumer Reports hate CVT's so much?
Probably the same type of reason they didn't recommend my car (because "the engine lacks power.")---a biased and incorrect opinion?

My opinion: because it's not what they're used to. If they'd grown up driving CVT's, they'd surely complain about the herky-jerky-stepped-RPM nature of fixed ratio automatics & manuals.