How much would you save driving Leaf?
 

Cowmeat had posted this thread earlier, but I accidentally nuked it... :o Sorry!

Anyway, Nissan has a little calculator to run through how much driving a Leaf would save you every year/month/week. Its kind of cool, and kind of funny for the hardcore super high mpg ecomodders out there.

Nissan LEAF® Electric Car | Savings Calculator

NOTE: click the recalculate using local amounts button to get a more accurate calculation. My gas price was a ridiculously low $2.33 by default.

I ran my Metro numbers through it at 50 mpg and I get a whopping $119 saved per year! Woohoo. :) As funny as that is, I'm still watching for a nice used i-MiEV to pick up. :thumbup:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1434733943

Here's mine for Ron Burgundy. Flat-lined!

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...4&d=1434735101

Uh-oh. They left out the part about how much it would cost me to get and insure a Leaf vs my current (PUN!) non-EVs. The bar graphs would have to have red bars that go down into negative savings territory. :/

Yeah, even with the all the "perks" (aka gov't subsidies), it's going to take many, many years of paying for gas to recoup that $21k price tag.

I'll keep my Civic (for now), thank you.

I just type values into mpghead.com since I would 110 charge for free at work. 15000 miles at $4 a gallon $2400 a year for 25mpg. $1700 at 35mpg. Significantly less maintenance too so like $3000 or $2300 a year. I can't wait!!!

Mpghead is pretty cool. Any other similar mpg calcs anyone knows of?

It makes a lot more financial sense when the EV only costs $10k,
and uses very little electricity as well.
This is possible when you recycle parts from existing cars that would otherwise be crushed. A Nissan Leaf is not such a car, no big corporation product is.

Maybe it is time for a revolution in how cars are built?

Not relevant but I'm saving $186 a month in diesel fuel by not using the F 250 and using the ev ranger. Yes this includes charging costs for the ranger.

Insurance and registration are about the same.

I will keep your Civic, too!

Wait...

So, I do not drive much: "22 miles? The Nissan LEAF® can get you much farther on a single charge.*"

I would hope so! However, I am driving a hundred and sixty-five miles tomorrow, and driving back the following day.

$800 a year more in taxes fees and insurance, compared to my paid for Mirage. That alone covers the cost of fuel, PLUS I have a 10-100 warranty and 5 unlimited roadside assistance.

In 100k miles at current prices my fuel cost would be less than $5k or one Leaf battery.

regards
mech

After the payment its self and full coverage insurance I would be saving negative several hundred dollars per month.
When (not if, I see it as only a matter of time) I drive an electric vehicle I am pretty sure it will be one built by me.

Here's my savings using PG&E's EV Rate Plan (which is 9 cents when charging at night) and a $3.75 gas price.
http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/...psr50idfu4.png

Here's the same, except I made the electricity cost 0 cents, because if I got an EV, there's no way I'm using utility power for my EV!
http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/...psytjaqeid.png

That's an 11 year payback! If I got an EV, I'd be praying that gas prices go up so my payback goes down!

Why would you pay $21K?

I got mine for $8995 a few months ago and if you watch autotrader.com you can find them cheaper than that.

Cheapest one on there right now is $7995 but I saw one not long ago at $6995.

Seriously you have to have smartphone and a OBDII adapter so you can check the battery status before buying a used one but you can easily save $10K or so buying a used one.

To be honest, I didn't even check used prices. Most new models of cars seem to have super high resale value until they are 6-10 years old or have a second generation released. A quick scan of my local craigslist shows about a dozen for under $10k. That's a lot more of a drop than I had expected.

Will still take many years to recoup the costs compared to the Civic though...

The Leafs that were leased for pretty cheap (I hear stories of $99 / month) are starting to be turned in.

I've heard that there were/are a lot of Leafs leased instead of purchased. So prices for used should be reasonable for 2 or 3 years at least. There are a bunch of Leaf's on the lots, unsold, now. Maybe a couple of months worth. And there is a new leaf for 2016 that is supposed to have 100 mile range, so they may have to cut the prices to get the 'old' inventory sold to make room for the new model ... in a few months.

I don't think it's really a good thing for EVs to have huge depreciation. But it's a good way in for many who could not pay the premium that was placed on the electric cars ... to drive a good used *ELECTRIC* car for a much more reasonable price.

The batteries, which is what everyone is worried about on these cars, have been doing well with a couple of well-documented exceptions. There is still some discussion if there was a problem with the batteries, or a problem with the instrumentation that estimated the State of Charge. I think the warranty on the battery is 8 years? Can anyone with a Leaf confirm that?

If the 39 month old Leaf starts out much less than a 3 year old civic then it appears to me to be a no-brainer - get the (used) Leaf!

Am I missing something?

I can't quite justify it now as my VW TDI is still working just fine on 100% renewable fuel that costs $0.80/gallon and gets 40mpg, but I do not understand how this is simply a financial decision. The fact that one would use absolutely NO gasoline is a huge selling point to me, and I would expect that many on this website would agree.

Yes?

My HCH isn't great shakes against a lot of the other hybrids here, but it casts the Leaf's advantages into a bad light: $200 "savings" per year. $17 per month!

That figures out to, after the rebate (assuming I could even get it), a 107-year payoff.

Man. I hope the battery technology improves.

you need to keep in mind,
you're also paying for a NEW car

I see the newest car you have is 12 years old

when considering the price of (just about any) new vehicle, it works pretty well


- - - - - - - - - - -

I currently drive a 1995 Nissan 200SX (1.6L 5sp with 225K miles) getting 37mpg on my 110 mile/day commute
and have no car payment


I can Lease a NEW leaf (on a 30K mile / year lease) for about $300/month
the calculator says I'd save about $178/month
$2.85/gal, 37mpg, $0.07/kwh

that means, I'm driving a NEW CAR (with Cruise control, AC, and a decent radio) for about $120/month
that's not bad :thumbup:

I'm not accounting for insurance, as I'm not sure what the LEAF will cost
but I do currently have full coverage on my 200sx (and since it's a "sporty" car that teenagers like to wreck) I cant imagine the leaf being much more

my big hangup is the fact that the LEAF might not be able to do my round trip commute
(they are in the process of putting in FREE CHARGING STATIONS at my work)

I was just talking to a dealer in WA
he said they have sold over 200 LEAFS
and only 9 were purchased (the rest were leased)

I put in my pre-grille block mileage. Nissan says they'll save me $601 a year.

Whoo! So if I'd bought their car last year instead of the Fit, I'd be a year and a half into the 10 years it'd take before fuel savings covered the price difference.

Interesting example of how not to inspire confidence in your technology. I thought I'd run my numbers through their calculator, even though I'm pretty sure that with an Insight averaging 70+ mpg, I'd get a negative return. So first question is "What's your ZIP code?", but there's no field in which to enter it! Sheesh, if you can't even hire people competent enough to write a simple web form...

The only thing that falls faster than a new electric vehicle's resale value is a lift with its cable cut.

After I entered my zip code they made it real clear that there was free money to be had to help me buy the vehicle. I think that is why they want you to enter your zip code, to see if there is any state money that can be given away in addition to federal money.
If they just gave me the $7,500 I would just build my own.

I entered the fuel economy of my 3 speed 7.4L suburban when I originally got it, 6mpg.
It told me to enter a valid number.
OMG I laughed so hard I almost died.

Our very low electricity costs (Cheapest in the country) mean electric cars make even more sense here in WA.

A coworker was looking for recommendations for a used car for $9000 or less to replace his mashed up Civic. He wants something fairly new with low miles that he can reliably put another 100k miles on with no major problems.

LOTS of Leafs were coming up, so I looked into them a little more thoroughly. They are newer than other cars in this price range and all have very low miles and look to be in very nice condition. Many are off-lease, with an occasional 1-owner purchased car.

I brought it to his attention, but felt I couldn't recommend one for one reason: Battery life. Most ads are showing missing bars or avoid mentioning the condition of the battery. It will work for him with his ~40ish miles of daily commuting now even with his heavy foot, but I am not confident it will still work for him in another five years when it has 100k miles without a new battery pack.

Which version of Netscape™ are you using?

:D


The field is immediately below the question when I view it (Windows 7, IE 11)

I got savings of $1/day. So it might take 36 years to pay off if I traded my nearly-new Cruze for a brand-new Leaf.

Oh, I understand WHY they want you to enter a ZIP code, I just don't understand why they don't bother to test their code to be sure that it actually works - and not just with the latest version of Microsoft or Google browsers.

Opera, the last (mostly) unbroken version.

Right, so I don't use Windoze. Which goes back to what I said about competent technical people. There are web standards which should, if adhered to, ensure that any standards-conforming browser will function with any standard-conforming web page. These people (and Microsoft) choose to ignore those standards, causing them to lose some share of their potential market.

I am not a fan of the Leaf. It is a first-gen electric. While I understand that there is pain to go through being 'first' that does not mean that I wish to SHARE that pain. As I understand it, there is no Nissan tech in western Canada that can fix anything but the simplest of error codes on a Leaf.

If you are OK with the styling and the possibility of no access to the car for a period of time if the car requires repair, I would not be too worried about the life of the battery pack. I expect that there are good ones and bad ones, but they appear to be holding up quite well, all things considered.

That said, I'm OK with losing the trunk space for a second and parallel pack, sourced from a wreck. Perhaps most people aren't.

Sounds just like owning a VW with a mark4 turbo gas motor where I live.

My sister is trying to get a job with Google, I think for an autonomous car project. Today she said that cars were a big waste of money for something that you only spent a percentage of your time using. I responded that ride sharing should work fine in a dense area like an apartment building, but heaven forbid that people need to walk to access a car in a normal neighborhood! :)

Then I wondered about a roommate situation. How much would one need to charge roommates to allow them to run errands in it, as long as they are not gone for an hour or two, and they plug in when they return.

Even more so, the idea that living in a "neighborhood" is normal (for anyone except the young & poor), and a desirable way to live. Sure, many people go through a phase of living that way, perhaps as a natural continuation of the college dorm, but it tends not to last.

Calculate your true per mile cost and let them get their own insurance with a promisary note for the deductible but absolute proof of insurance.

regards
mech

I made my own spreadsheet to evaluate the true cost of ownership of any 2 vehicles, including gas vs EV.

Modify this yourself with your own numbers.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1rb...2dCJSLxp5ne6Q4

Here's another aspect to this issue: if you get an EV such as a Leaf, and you then get solar PV on your house - you will then save most or possibly all of the energy costs for driving an EV. And the cost of the solar PV system will often pay for itself (even without the EV savings) in about 10 years.

The other point I'll make is that some EV drivers primarily do so because we want to not use fossil fuels. Electricity is improving on this all the time, whether or not we individually generate our own electricity.

My parents save almost exactly $1,000 per year over the geo metro that died, their leaf cost $15,000 used.

They needed a new car anyway and wanted something that was easier to care for.

There seems to be a missing element in these calculations. Most of us are looking to replace a 10+ year old vehicle with a newer Leaf. How do you do the math on the unknown cost of repairs for the old car (or for a used Leaf)?

My daughter has a 2013 that she pays less than $200 a month for. Compared to the Jeep she was driving, the fuel savings put her in a nearly free car. She loves it.

My wife has 2012 Leaf that was under 10K that she used to replace her 13 year old Jetta TDI. She likes the car, but seems to have a hard time predicting miles and is afraid to go places that she could easily make. She is not as happy about the overall purchase, but does like that she burns no gas for her commute.

I like that they don't have to check the oil or worry about filters, belts, etc. Its basically tires, brake checks and windshield wipers unless something big lets go.

The real benefit of these cars to hobby builders will be OEM quality parts becoming available from wrecks and broken EVs in the next few years.

Here's a related observation: my ecodriving has always involved understanding how much range I have left vs how far I need to drive. So, I am far more comfortable setting out on a drive that is not routine, because I can look up the distance online, and I know that arriving home with a few miles left is no different than arriving home with 20 or 30 or 40 miles left.

It comes down to that range cushion and whether or not you are not worried about using most of the range.

Being a practiced ecodriver makes a better EV driver.

That's called "the bus."