Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-19-2018, 07:32 AM   #161 (permalink)
one of thOOOse people
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: the cloud(s)
Posts: 293

twitchy - '98 honda civic dx + sir + ls
90 day: 30.2 mpg (US)

Norman - '14 Ford E-350 EXT
90 day: 15.07 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 81 Times in 66 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
Just another billionaire wasting money to show off how rich he is. Basically the high-tech equivalent to lighting your cigars with $100 bills.
How many tens of thousands would it have cost Space X to do what most rocket builders do in this case? Build a two ton block of concrete or steel. This car was something he had and could do without at little to no cost. The pay back was a lot of publicity for the both young companies. Seems like a worthy business decision to me.

I did say "bet it all" a while back. In quotes because it was a mild exaggeration. But he has bet a majority of his liquid assets, more than a few times to keep Tesla going. Does he have a much larger fortune net worth? Sure, but that is usually tied up in other ventures.

My point at the time was he successfully keeps Tesla on the verge of running out of money, a bad thing to Wall Street, to keep innovation (evolution?) of the industry moving fast. His goal all along.

Tesla has, in a decade, flipped the industries of car manufacturing and car dealerships on their heads while also building up a a network of charging stations across the world. That would have taken a generation or more without his drive.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 09-19-2018, 08:41 AM   #162 (permalink)
Rat Racer
 
Fat Charlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Route 16
Posts: 4,150

Al the Third, year four - '13 Honda Fit Base
Team Honda
90 day: 42.9 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,784
Thanked 1,919 Times in 1,246 Posts
No one complains about how much money large companies spend on advertising. Until Tesla uses a car instead of a concrete block.

How many people would have watched a webcam aimed at some ballast? How many other (successful) test launches do people still talk about, and how many car companies are inseparable from those conversations? So the billionaire's got a big ego.
There's a shock. Launching his own car was a great move.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepdog44 View Post
Transmission type Efficiency
Manual neutral engine off.100% @MPG <----- Fun Fact.
Manual 1:1 gear ratio .......98%
CVT belt ............................88%
Automatic .........................86%

  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Fat Charlie For This Useful Post:
niky (09-21-2018), redpoint5 (09-19-2018)
Old 09-19-2018, 02:51 PM   #163 (permalink)
Not Doug
 
Xist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Show Low, AZ
Posts: 10,755

Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 35.35 mpg (US)

Mid-Life Crisis Fighter - '99 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 33.43 mpg (US)

Gramps - '04 Toyota Camry LE
90 day: 33.15 mpg (US)
Thanks: 7,021
Thanked 2,007 Times in 1,531 Posts
When you complain about Tesla (or anything else) you provide free advertising. Enough negative attention can ruin a person\company\whatever--or help them win the White House.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2018, 08:47 PM   #164 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 20,839
Thanks: 5,834
Thanked 6,808 Times in 5,505 Posts
Whoever is best at it wins.
__________________
.
"Never trust an actor with a gun"
Abraham Lincoln (probably)

____________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2018, 10:11 PM   #165 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 2,433

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 178
Thanked 1,319 Times in 914 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Tesla doesn't exist without Musk. Nobody else could have done it when he did, and the evidence is that nobody did do what he did. As I've said, we basically have Tesla because of Musks positive and negative traits. That's no excuse for poor behavior, but he can help himself as much as anyone else, which is to say not at all. What else can explain his behavior besides genetics and environment, neither of which he chose?
Do we need Tesla? Nissan had a practical EV out while Musk was still trying to figure out how to make a car.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2018, 01:07 AM   #166 (permalink)
Not Doug
 
Xist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Show Low, AZ
Posts: 10,755

Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 35.35 mpg (US)

Mid-Life Crisis Fighter - '99 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 33.43 mpg (US)

Gramps - '04 Toyota Camry LE
90 day: 33.15 mpg (US)
Thanks: 7,021
Thanked 2,007 Times in 1,531 Posts
Some argue that Musk is still trying to figure out how to make a car! :P

You can purchase a 2019 Renault Leaf for $37,095 with a 151-mile range or a 2019 Model 3 for $35,000 with a 220-mile range, or $44,000 with a 310-mile range. Of course, if you add options besides the battery it can cost $86,000, and CNN points out that you can purchase a Maserati for less.

I added every option on the Leaf and it only ran up to $38,269, which is great as long as you want black cloth seats, because that was the only option.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2018, 01:28 AM   #167 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 9,582

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.24 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.58 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,307
Thanked 3,629 Times in 2,715 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Do we need Tesla? Nissan had a practical EV out while Musk was still trying to figure out how to make a car.
I think the statement I made immediately before the part you quoted answers this question.

Quote:
Besides all that, Musk never claimed to be the EV messiah. From the beginning his mission statement was to accelerate the rate at which EVs are developed and brought into mainstream; an end to which he seems to have accomplished.

OK, so we shouldn't be inspired by people because their discoveries were inevitable...
Nissan is still making EVs with no active thermal management; a decision I believe they will come to regret. If GM designed active cooling for their very low volume, and relatively low capacity Spark EV, and given the fiasco they've had with warranty claims in hot climates, you'd think it prudent to take better care of the most expensive part of the vehicle.

Do we need Nissan?

For the record, I have no brand allegiance. Every make/model has their strengths and weaknesses.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2018, 09:34 AM   #168 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 2,442

2004 CTD - '04 DODGE RAM 2500 SLT
Team Cummins
90 day: 19.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,422
Thanked 735 Times in 555 Posts
Evac. So how will an EV do in floodwaters. Get stranded on wet but not flooded roads. Then water rises.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2018, 10:03 AM   #169 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 2,433

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 178
Thanked 1,319 Times in 914 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
Some argue that Musk is still trying to figure out how to make a car! :P

You can purchase a 2019 Renault Leaf for $37,095 with a 151-mile range or a 2019 Model 3 for $35,000 with a 220-mile range, or $44,000 with a 310-mile range. Of course, if you add options besides the battery it can cost $86,000, and CNN points out that you can purchase a Maserati for less.

I added every option on the Leaf and it only ran up to $38,269, which is great as long as you want black cloth seats, because that was the only option.
The new 2018 Nissan Leaf with a 150 mile range starts at $30,000. I have no idea where you are getting $37K.

You cannot buy a new Tesla for less than $50,000 today. Musk has promised, sometime in the future, to sell a $35,000 Model 3. Of course this won't be until after the Federal tax credit expires.

I don't waste money on new cars so I will only be looking at the used market when the lease on my Spark EV expires next year. Most likely I'll purchase a 2013-2015 Leaf for about $10K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Nissan is still making EVs with no active thermal management; a decision I believe they will come to regret. If GM designed active cooling for their very low volume, and relatively low capacity Spark EV, and given the fiasco they've had with warranty claims in hot climates, you'd think it prudent to take better care of the most expensive part of the vehicle.

Do we need Nissan?
No we don't need Nissan. The world has too many auto brands and they will continue to consolidate over the years. Nissan happened to lead the world will a practical and affordable EV.

Time will tell on whether Nissan's decision to save on the battery pack and pay warranty claims pays off. In most areas the Leaf's battery does just fine and the simplicity of the pack allows them to sell a replacement for $5500. (The sales volume of the Leaf helps too) A replacement pack for my Spark EV is $22,000.

That replacement pack for $5500 with an new 8 year warranty has moved the Leaf to the top of my list for my next vehicle.

Last edited by JSH; 09-20-2018 at 10:11 AM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JSH For This Useful Post:
redpoint5 (09-20-2018)
Old 09-20-2018, 10:08 AM   #170 (permalink)
Somewhat crazed
 
Piotrsko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: 1826 miles WSW of Normal
Posts: 2,425
Thanks: 243
Thanked 666 Times in 578 Posts
They mostly function as long as the water is not too conductive, where everything becomes a steam generator. Closed, aka "explosion proof" motors are more resiliant, and they have been making HV deep well water pumps for years. The trick is preventing current flow in not controlled sections.

The ranger is water resistant.

__________________
casual notes from the underground:There are some "experts" out there that in reality don't have a clue as to what they are doing.
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Tags
hurricane, vitriolic tesla hate

Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com