HVAC Heat Pump

[Piotrsko]

Seventy two next week. Will advise what I want to be now that I am supposedly there and beyond. Retired like being in military with no uniform or saluting requirements, definitely no watch posts, once a month check from uncle sugar, free health care. Free spare time? Maybe

[redpoint5]

My dad's the same age, and his project lists get longer, not shorter.

He just bought a shipping container to put crap in, because 3 houses, a 5th wheel trailer, a barn, 2 equipment sheds, and various smaller storage structures wasn't enough.

The 2020 fires didn't burn nearly close enough.

[Piotrsko]

That's the problem with storage, owned stuff needing storage always exceeds the space available. Build more, then aquire more stuff to store (sometime backwards) have a joke from a contractor friend: how many cars will a 6 door garage store? 1 if you're frugal. Old neighbor out in the countryside had a 1000 sq ft house, 10,000 sqft garage

[redpoint5]

I'm always saying this winter will be the one I help them create 4 categories of stuff;

1. keep
2. sell
3. give away
4. throw away /recycle

I've got the same hording tendency as well, but have somehow managed to park all vehicles in my garage. Zero vehicles sitting in the driveway or on the street. Of course, I'm cheating because a few of my vehicles are sitting at my parents. They use them at will though.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I wonder what the savings would be. If I'm averaging $60 a month for natural gas, I once roughly figured it was about 2.5 times cheaper per thermal unit, factor in 80%, factor in 500%, factor in some of my gas goes to stove and hot water heater...

So, about $20 per month average for electricity?

The idea of saving with a heat pump in your case would need to be a hybrid approach. One idea would be to use the NG heater when the temperature is below 20F and the heat pump when it is above. Use each where they are most efficient. The crossover point would depend on the efficiency for each heating source and your cost for a therm of NG and the cost of a kWh. (What do you pay for those)

You can figure out how much NG you are using for cooking and hot water by looking at your bill in June, July, August when you aren't using your heat. (I do the same thing for electricity but I use April and September when I'm not using heat or A/C)

The other big factor is how warm do you keep your home. That has a huge effect on the cost of heating. Considering you turn off the heat completely at night when it is -20F outside and say heating a whole house is a waste I suspect you are doing just the bare minimum to keep the pipes from freezing.

[redpoint5]

Cold Climate Heat Pumps (CCHP) can deliver 100% rated output at 0F, and reduced output below that. Hybrid systems shouldn't be necessary. Even in absolute worst case scenarios, a space heater will achieve 100% efficiency.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Cold Climate Heat Pumps (CCHP) can deliver 100% rated output at 0F, and reduced output below that. Hybrid systems shouldn't be necessary. Even in absolute worst case scenarios, a space heater will achieve 100% efficiency.

Yes, they can (mine does) but I don't see Isaac paying thousands for a Cold Climate Heat Pump. I was talking about him adding a small window unit for less the $1,000 that would provide A/C in the summer and cheaper heating in shoulder season.

Also providing 100% of BTUs at 0 F doesn't mean it makes financial sense to use a heat pump when he has a furnace.

[redpoint5]

Those CCHP, and heat pumps in general are a racket. A heat pump has a couple extra valves or something turning an AC into a heat pump, so there is little additional cost. Then the CCHP has a couple more valves than that. Going from AC to heat pump shouldn't be more than a couple hundred bucks, and then to cold climate should only be a couple hundred more.

With economies of scale, it'd probably be cheaper to just manufacture all to be CCHP with no option for inefficient systems. I need to disrupt this corrupted industry by starting my own business.

[Piotrsko]

Moving to asia then? That's where most heat pumps are assembled. Not much difference between brands besides the covers. Maybe 3 manufacturing companies pretty much same branded name parts.

Difference between heat pump and typical A/C is a 4 way valve and a different control board to switch that valve but could be done old school. Valve can be had for car use, costs under $200 American, controller maybe $20 so under $250. Efficiency is related to freon choice and system pressure plus how much radiator you have to gain or remove heat

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

Moving to asia then? That's where most heat pumps are assembled. Not much difference between brands besides the covers. Maybe 3 manufacturing companies pretty much same branded name parts.

Difference between heat pump and typical A/C is a 4 way valve and a different control board to switch that valve but could be done old school. Valve can be had for car use, costs under $200 American, controller maybe $20 so under $250. Efficiency is related to freon choice and system pressure plus how much radiator you have to gain or remove heat

I'm ditching human labor and going full automation, domestically. Some electronics, valves, tubing, motor, fan, and radiator shouldn't add up to thousands of dollars.

As you point out, there are very few unique manufacturers of things, meaning that whole industry needs massive consolidation. There's no reason to have 20 brands, and sub-brands when all the components are the same.

I'm a huge fan of vertical integration as well.

...now to prototype my game-changing product...