Hypermiling Newbie!
 

Hi all! I drive a 1994 Toyota Camry V6 Automatic. EPA is 16/23, and I have been getting ~20-22 mpg on mostly suburban roads (lower speed limits, but usually low congestion).

I'm looking for ways to get more MPG!

Currently, this is how I try to drive (if conditions are safe): Engine RPM no higher than 2200, driving with load, driving without brakes, rolling to reds and stale green stoplights.

I have a question about driving up long uphills - is it better to be in a lower gear with higher RPM and less pedal depression, or a higher gear with lower RPM and more pedal depression? I've leaned toward the higher RPM option because I'm afraid of "lugging" the engine by giving it a lot of gas in low RPM.

And another question - is feasible to save gas trying to pulse and glide without turning off the engine or shifting to neutral? My automatic car will be using the torque converter because the speeds aren't high enough to lock-up.

Any advice is appreciated!

I had a 97 Avalon XL many yrs ago and before I found theis forum.
I got 24 all the time on the road.
the only thing I did as far as HM was coast in neutral when I could.
I was 'slightly' frustrated not to get to 25mpg but again, that was before I found this site!!!
I always drove easy.

The higher gear is better. It's more sensitive to changes in accelerator pedal position though (meaning - a bigger drop in MPG for a given amount of pedal movement). So you need to have a steady foot and a means of monitoring your "instant" fuel consumption.

The car's computer won't let you "lug" the engine, so you don't have to worry about that. So I'd leave it in overdrive.

As for pulse & glide in an automatic, it's going to vary from car to car. You could test it out on your own (comparing the same route, same average speed, same conditions) if you have fuel economy instrumentation.

Welcome to the forum!

Welcome to the forums!

I bought an Ultragauge, and have seen the light! You want a way to improve your MPG? Buy a gauge. I know how intimidating the startup cost is, but it is well worth it. Knowing exactly how well you're doing on MPG at every moment gives you a lot more control over your vehicle, and can answer questions like "what gear should I take this hill in?"

It will also help you learn how light pedal pressure can extend your coasts for twice to three times as long. In my case, that keeps me in the low triple digits.

Anyway I'm beginning to rant, so I'll just say, keep on reading the forums--you'll continue to learn--get a gauge as soon as you can, and above all, have fun with it!

~Matt

see the first link in my sig for a link to scangauge threads.

also pump the psi to 40+ (see other threads)

Think about upsizing tires next time you buy some

Wow - thanks everyone! I am blown back by all the responses!

@mcrews: The EPA on the 97 Avalon is a bit higher than on my 94 Camry (18/28 vs 16/23) even though they both use the 1MZ-FE engine? Also, I'm no expert, but google search seems to say that coasting in neutral on an automatic is bad for the transmission - I'm not sure why people say that, but I know that auto transmissions are really expensive. And thanks a lot for the tip on the Scangauge. I hope it works with my 1994 Camry's computer (its one of the early versions of OBDII thats not fully supported by most newer scan tools it seems). Also, I just started pumping my tires to 40 PSI:)

@MetroMPG: Thanks for the hill advice! I guess I should invest in fuel economy instrumentation to find out.

@Yes, I mostly do hypermiling for my own curiosity and enjoyment. My friends and family usually argue with my logic and say "its not worth saving 5 dollars a fill-up" but when I tell them I do it for my enjoyment they seem slightly more satisfied. Though the savings are a nice side effect. And thanks for the tip on the ultragauge! I'm trying to find out if it is compatible with my 94' Camry's computer.

how odd!!!

I got 217000 on the avalon and coasted ALOT!
only got rid of it becasue of the great deal on the 2002 Infiniti Q45!
which got 275000!!
The trick to longjevity.....regular oil changes and easy driving

I googled auto coasting again -

the reason why people were saying its bad to coast in automatic in neutral is that the transmissions oil pump is not being driven, therefore the transmission is not getting sufficient lubrication.

Other people say this is an issue only with older cars, and other people say that the engine drives the oil pump for the transmission so its okay to run the car in neutral while moving.

Confuddled:confused:

But your experience proves its fine on a 1997 car!

Shutting off the engine while coasting with the engine off WILL eventually damage an automatic that isn't designed for it.

(As well, with the engine off, you lose power assist for the steering, and have a limited amount of vacuum in reserve for power assisted braking. That's another story, but probably worth repeating here.)

BUT: nobody said you have to shut off the engine to coast in neutral, and there are times where it will increase your fuel economy vs. coasting in gear.

THe trick to 'coasting, engine on' is if the rpms drop to idle when in neutral.(imho)
I drove a 2009 Ford Tarus for a couple of weeks a while back and the rpms DIDNOT drop when coasting in neutral.

Fords always seem to idle stupidly high when put in neutral. I kicked my Taurus into neutral once trying to go from D to OD ... with no foot on the gas, the RPMs shot up to 3000 for no reason.

Engine on coasting, like everyone else said, really matters on the car and conditions of using it.

But the varied response is similar for your transmission. Look up the towing procedures, and that will direct you to the safest route- per manufacturer.

Coasting in neutral shouldn't hurt the tranny unless you turn the engine off. I coast with my tranny in neutral all the time, no worries.

How to Tow an Automatic Transmission Toyota Camry | eHow.com

Coasting in neutral may be okay, engine on, but from this write up, I would be careful. For shorter periods, and the transmission normally running, I doubt itnwouldoverheat. But I'm also not a mechanic lol

Help me.........do you tow with 'engine on'?????????

Does this thread talk about driving w/ 'engine off'?????????

Then PLEASE EXPLAIN the relevance.

THis pops up every time some asks about ENGINE ON COASTING IN NEUTRAL

There is NO CONECTION between the two. :thumbup:

Please explain why information on ENGINE OFF towing is 'causing you to 'be careful' when discussing engine ON

FACT:
ran a 1997 Avalon w/ same engine and tranny for 210,000 miles. AND engine on coast in nuetral ALOT. Never had a problem.

Infiniti Q45 274,000 same.

Thanks for the knowledge everyone!

It seems as if coasting in neutral on a modern automatic is ok as long as the engine is on (mccrews personal experience attests to this). And coasting with the drive wheels moving with the engine off is not ok.

According to this article (blog?) from popular mechanics : Coasting in Neutral or Gear to Save Gas - Coasting and Fuel Economy - Popular Mechanics

coasting in neutral on an auto doesn't save gas. To be fair, this article is probably not a scientific quality, peer-reviewed study, and the writer seems to be a bit biased, but the logic seems to make sense. The argument of the writer seems to be that when a modern car coasts, the fuel injectors are off, so you are only experience engine resistance. When you shift into neutral, the fuel injectors turn back on to keep the engine in idle.

Interesting argument, but the issue with the article is that the 1 gph figure seems a tad high and the writer also didn't release the testing data.

With that in mind, I have another question:)

If you're parked in your driveway, and you want to move your car 10ft, is it ok to simply put the parking brake off, switch in in neutral and push it out of the way? Or is it better to to move it the normal way (turning it on and and reversing out)?

Moving the car 10 feet is fine. But, again, realize you will not have power steering or power brakes (if the car has been off for some time) should you need them.

---

And the problem with that Popular Mechanics article is that it tries to come up with a hard and fast "rule" on the topic. But the subject is more nuanced than that. Sometimes coasting in gear is better, sometimes coasting in neutral is more efficient. It's further complicated by differences between vehicles. There are lots of threads on the subject - try the search box top left of the page.

I was thinking key in the on position, not thinking about the engine being on. My mistake, this thread is lasting longer than my memory of first reading through.

Okay so I drive a manual transmission, which is different... But in-gear coasting is 999MPG (actually infinite), which is just engine resistance. Neutral coasting with the engine idling is somewhere around 200MPG at ~40MPH.
So neutral coasting in an automatic, even with the engine still running, SHOULD give you pretty impressive MPG figures for the length of the coast.

It seems like GPH should be looked at, and compared to the amount of time for the in gear and in neutral.

That is, I imagine being in gear (with injectors off) still uses SOME fuel, and it will take longer to get somewhere (with the added engine resistance).

It makes sense to me- hope I am not mistaken again lol

I'm rather new to hypermiling, but what you say makes sense to me as well. I feel like if one truly wanted to know and had the equipment and methodology, they would have to know the gph of their engine in neutral. The only thing slowing down the car in this case is tire rolling resistance which is pretty negligible, and air resistance which is negligible at lower speeds.

When coasting in gear with the injectors off, I don't think it uses any fuel, however you lose speed due to the added drag of the engine being connected to the drive wheels.

Therefore, without recording any test data, I hypothesize that coasting to a red light or stop sign is far more efficient while coasting in gear vs. coasting in neutral.

I also hypothesize that given a situation where one will coast, then step on the gas again, coasting in neutral may potentially be more fuel efficient than coasting in gear because one will have to accelerate less due to a lower loss in MPH coasting in neutral. Though, without knowing the numbers, either form of coasting may be more efficient depending on the situation. One would also need to know when the ECU turns off the fuel injectors.

Actually, it uses 0 fuel. Looking at GPH, once my ultragauge goes into open loop, I'm using no fuel at all... and in my car, the displacement is so small that 5th gear really does not hold you back all that much. It does, but not like my old 4-liter Ranger did. Don't get me wrong, I understand your point and agree with you, I'm just sayin; I can coast pretty damn far in 5th.

Speaking again about my car, I idle at .13-.15gph, depending on whether my lights are on or not. It only takes a moment for my fuel consumption to drop to that level when shifting from gear to neutral. As for air resistance, if I recall correctly, aero drag still accounts for 30+% of your fuel used at speeds below 40 MPH.

This all sounds pretty good to me :)

Cheers

~Matt

Don't get you wrong? I am rarely offended on this forum! I prefer this one because in my head, I think everyone is being polite and giving info for the better of everyone. :) I do appreciate your actual data on what was just a thought of mine. I would like to see how common that is, if other vehicles behave the same way.

If I put that clutch in [to coast], the kill switch gets flipped-I try to do as little engine on coasting as possible. And I imagine it is possible standard and auto behave a bit different. I don't know either way, just a thought.

There is a connection: the towing they're talking about is towing the car, not using the car to do the towing. Pulling the car with its drive wheels on the ground will cause part of the transmission to turn; some transmissions are safe to be spun by the wheels indefinitely because of how their lubrication systems are set up, others are not.

The best place to look for information on this is on RV sites. Pulling a dinghy vehicle around (also called flat towing) is a pretty quick way to utterly destroy the drivetrain of your dinghy if it can't take it, it's way far back there completely hidden behind the tow vehicle, you'd never see if something went awry. It's also why you often see compact 4x4 dinghy vehicles, just shift the transfer case into neutral and (usually) no further worries about the drivetrain, manual or automatic.

NOTE: the linked article points out that no Toyota automatic tranny is good for flat towing. That includes the OP's Camry, so that's at least one question answered.