Hypermiling- Sport, Science, or Art?
 

Howdy All,

I find hypermiling quite intriguing, and I'm really excited to get started. I've always been interested in efficiency, and I hate waste! I'm currently driving my wife's Infiniti EX35 (we sold my Jeep Grand Cherokee for a cross country move), and I know I will be needing to buy a car in a few months. I want to make the best decision, so I decided to turn to this community of modders who I know can pump out more information than is possible to consume. :)

A brief summary of me and my needs:
1. This will be primarily city driving (when inclement weather forbids riding a bike)
2. We (my wife and I) will make occasional 100 mile trips to her parents house
3. We may make 1200 mile trips to my parents house, if it is cost effective vs. flying
4. I don't know how to drive a car with manual transmission, but eagerly look forward to learning
5. I have begun practicing as many hypermiling tips of the 100+ as possible.
6. I have no experience in auto modding (unless a B.A. in philosophy counts as theoretical knowledge) besides the day to day problems of a 92 Jeep GC Laredo.

Based on what I know, this is the what I am looking for (feel free to guide me somewhere else):
1. Geo Metro (I don't know what model is best) or Honda Civic HX or other X but not EX (no "lean burn", whatever that is)
2. Manual Transmission for greater hypermiling tips implementation
3. A '94 or newer for greater reliability and ability to use a ScanGauge

As it's easy to see, I'm a rookie who needs a mentor.
All help is greatly appreciated.

Why no lean burn? The Hondas that had it were among the most efficient available. (2000-2006 Honda Insight hybrid with lean burn & manual transmission was the most efficient car ever sold in the U.S.)

I also wonder a bit about purchasing a really old car if you're not mechanically inclined (for repair frequency).

I'm sure you'll get lots of suggestions. It might help if you put a dollar figure on your search. Also, are you pursuing efficiency above cost as a goal?

Welcome to the forum!

MetroMPG:
Sorry, that was a bit confusing. What I was trying to communicate is that my understanding is one ought not get an EX as it doesn't have lean burn. In other words, lean burn is extremely valuable.

As for the old/new discussion, I think you're right. But from what little experience I have I have learned there is much value in fixing your own car, and I'd like to do it as much as is possible (although the romantic idea of self-sufficiency hardly kept me going when I was laying in snow replacing the starter on my Jeep. I just knew it needed to be done and didn't want to pay someone else.)

Concerning a dollar amount, I think 3000 would be the highest I'd go, unless I stumbled upon an unbelievable deal, then I think I'd go up to 4000.

I'm trying to get from A to B not for less but by using less. The sport of hypermiling is what most attracts me. I want to get as far as I can on as little as I can. I hope that answered your question.

Thanks for the post!

Re: lean burn - makes sense now. Re-reading, I see I took that the wrong way.

That price range pretty much excludes the '00-06 Insight, unless you're very lucky (as I was, and a few other forum members). Generally even high-miles ones or ones with bad batteries go for prices above your limit.

We really need a dedicated thread for this, because it's a fairly common inquiry.

But I think you'll find most people suggesting:

- the VX / HX Honda Civics
- non EX/SI Civics
- Honda CRX (non SI)
- Geo Metro
- Toyota Corolla / Matrix / Echo
- Mazda Protege
- Chevy Cobalt XFe model
- some Saturns
- VW diesels (TDI Golf/Jetta/Beetle)

- others (I'm sure I missed some)

You can also browse our fuel economy "top 10" lists to see what people are getting from various cars. The really high scores are usually dedicated, hard core hypermilers, 1st generation Insights and other hybrids, or heavily modified cars (or all of the above).

Keep in mind the numbers are usually tied closely to average speed; the higher the number, the slower the average speed for the tank.

See: EcoModder Fleet list - EcoModder.com

I don't think it's just a romantic notion! Being able to fix your own stuff enables you to be vastly more independent (financially and otherwise) and less wasteful than average. I say dive in, if you've got the inclination.

Wow, ok thanks a ton.

That was really what I was after, a list of cars I can start looking for in my area. Armed with your list of suggestions, I'm ready to do some serious shopping around. I also feel better about knowing when I stumble upon a deal.

You're right. It isn't just a romantic notion to be able to fix your own stuff. I know that now, but I didn't last year at this time. :)

Thanks again for the help!

You're welcome - but keep an eye on this thread for suggestions from others.

And let us know what you find!

I definitely will!
I'll commence searching tomorrow and report back.

I will say though that the Insight was something I hadn't even considered, and it seems a bit scary with that hybrid battery system, but I'll keep my ear to the ground.
I'm sure I can find some helpful info for it on one of the threads here!

Seeing EX35, I would suggest a new CRZ. Or one model year old, but standard. But for under 4, no way. That is a great list, and if you are willing to learn, you might be able to find two of the same car and just use one for pieces, but I am not sure how well priced that list can be.

Can two metros be under 4? A diesel VW for under 4 would make me nervous. Paying for parts and labor could add up quick. No matter what you choose, if you find something you like, you can mod it and the nut behind the wheel to almost any goal.

I have to say, my favorite production car for fun/sportiness/mileage of the past few years to current is hands down the CRZ. But way past 4k.

A gen 1. Insight can still be driven even with a dead hybrid battery, and it will still return waaaay above average fuel economy. Finding one with a dead battery (5-speed) for a good price is an opportunity to be taken, not avoided.

(You can also sometimes refurbish / rejuvenate the hybrid battery: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...0-a-19975.html )

UltArc: Yeah, the EX is an awesome vehicle. it's an '08 (read: my wife's parents bought it for her before we were married) and quite simply is way beyond our means in terms of purchasing another car. The thought of buying 2 cars and parting one out for the other does seem like a tall order, but not impossible. I'll definitely consider it; thanks for having faith in me. Do you think the older CRZs are worth looking in to?

Metro: I see what you mean! I found a '02 Insight with 240k mi in my area for only 1500. Of course, it doesn't start, but I'm sure that's fixable. However, it's an automatic, so that's pretty much a buzz kill- one of my main objectives of this endeavor is to learn to drive a standard. I'll keep looking.

So, where do mid 90's Honda Accords stack up in hypermiling world?

They haven't been around for too long. I think of it like an Insight but super sport instead of mileage. As to decide for your circumstances, it seems that the Insight would be a better fit, but personally, I need some get up and go more often than others.

Search our garage for examples. Or have a look at fueleconomy.gov for the year/model you're considering, and add ~30-40% to the MPG figures for concerted hypermiling.

The manual transmission model is recommended.

I've recently done plenty of research into various makes and models, their efficiency, engine sizes, transmission options, gear ratios, Cd, CdA, etc. Mainly, I was focusing on 1997-2002 smaller two door cars. It really helps to dive into numbers, know what to avoid, etc before you go browsing to buy.

For example, I had no idea the 2002 Mercury Cougar had a Cd of 0.31. Or that a Mazda MX-6 used the same mechanicals as the Ford Probe, which aren't difficult to find parts in a boneyard, but the Mazda has better Cd.

Ride a bike, mine cost $2300 and is averaging over 92 MPG, Suzuki TU250X.

regards
Mech

What does it get in "MPT" though? (Miles per tire) That can be a significant factor in cost/distance calcs with motorcycles, depending on the model & tire.

I can buy a set of tires every year with the money saved on insurance versus my Fiesta.
Comapred to my Fiesta at 45 MPG the bike would save me $400 a year in fuel, a couple of hundred in insurance and another $100 or so in property taxes, maybe more. $.0375 a mile in fuel costs. I've already put 1200 miles on the bike, and the Fiesta just hit 10k miles. It was built in November 2010, to say nothing about the emissions of the bike with a cat 02 sensor and FI. I have new tires sitting in the garage for the TU250X when the cheap Chinese tires wear out. I would guess I could have got 10k out of the rear tire and more out of the front. Your point is valid, or course, but if you are going to compare costs outside fuel then it needs to be TCO (total cost of ownership). I did not even include depreciation, which is a major factor for those who buy new, but in my case not nearly so significant.

regards
Mech

Smurf: I am definitely a numbers guy by nature. I'll look in to it.

Old Mech: I've looked into getting a motorcycle, but only briefly. I almost immediately discounted the idea because I figured the insurance would be much more expensive, more than enough to offset any fuel savings. Also, the thought of not being able to drive the bike for a few months out of the year but still pay for it really rubs me the wrong way. But your recommendation will have me once again scouring craigslist. :) What year is your Suzuki?