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-   -   I do not like the Honda FSM. (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/i-do-not-like-honda-fsm-36507.html)

Xist 06-01-2018 01:25 PM

I do not like the Honda FSM.
 
3 Attachment(s)
Apparently I have been saying that I was going to replace my timing belt for six months. I researched which other parts to replace at the same time, found the best places to purchase everything, quit my job and moved. I had all of the time in the world, but wasn't comfortable taking my engine apart when there are always complications.

Also, I am lazy.

Yesterday I bought the Chilton manual and then realized I had a PDF of the FSM. When I replaced the head gasket on my Forester removing the timing belt was the easy part and it is easier to work on Hondas than Subarus, so I was kind of looking forward to this.

Mostly not looking forward to it, but whatever.

I do not know if I found a Subaru FSM, but the Haynes was a ridiculous Choose Your Own Adventure of jumping from chapter to chapter. I understand, though, the book might be twice as long if they told you to write down the anti-theft code for the radio, the radio presets, and to disconnect the negative battery terminal and then the positron each and every time.

Wait. They already do.

I think there were 15 - 20 steps for the head gasket, but when I wrote down all of the steps from other sections and chapters, I believe I had eighty. I had all kinds of other complications yesterday that did not have anything to do with the FSM, but just made my day frustrating. The timing belt section is seven pages and some of them are kind of short. It only referred out for removing the alternator and alternator bracket, although the page it references for the alternator bracket does not mention the alternator bracket

So, I submit that step should be "Remove the nut and bolt from the alternator bracket and remove the alternator bracket" or simply "Remove the alternator bracket." Edit: I cannot see any reason to remove the alternator or bracket. There were a few steps like that.

I had so many other complications that it was not until I finished putting together the instructions I realized it was so simple I could have printed off the seven pages, ignored the alternator and alternator bracket references, and knocked it out.

However, after reading disassembly instructions a few times and reading the assembly instructions I happened to notice "install the cylinder head cover (see page 6-54)."

Huh.

Compare that with "Remove the cylinder head cover."

The reinstallation instructions are only a page and a half, but the removal portion is four pages, plus (see page 10-10) and (see page 11-115).

It always seems like they skip instructions.

California98Civic 06-01-2018 02:13 PM

Hang in there! There is a method for head gasket replacement that does not involve timing belt removal, but it is a little tricky. Simplify reinstallation by not putting PS & AC back, lol.

jcp123 06-01-2018 03:38 PM

I found these helpful. The first guy finds and flips cars which are beat down, and has a scrappy sort of working knowledge I find helpful. EricTheCarGuy is a former Honda/Acura dealer tech, and worked on these cars when they were new. Neither of these are perfect, but I find them helpful as additions to the FSM or other write-ups.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U5d52aWohI0

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AoJcAS58CHg

Xist 06-01-2018 03:54 PM

California, I deleted the power steering when I replaced the alternator the first time. JCP, is that Old School Funk? I am not sure how I feel about him. I think he is how I wish Shouty Kilmer was. He shows broke people how to fix cars properly, while Shouty shows questionable shortcuts and stop leak.
Eric is good.

I have about 20 YouTube tabs open right now. I think I have Old School in there somewhere.

I am actually changing the timing belt on my Accord, while the Civic needs a head gasket, but since the Civic has low compression, I want to rebuild. Faster, stronger, better.

Nevermind. That sounds exhausting.

I also found a South Main video that I am going to watch as soon as I finish this Choose Your Own Adventure.

At ten last night my supervisor told me that I could go ahead and see some clients scheduled for 8 this morning. They live an hour away. Was I supposed to contact the parents then or early in the morning? I woke up at six, called, left voice mail, and sent a text at seven, and never heard back, so I tried to organize the timing belt project on four hours of sleep.

jcp123 06-01-2018 04:04 PM

Yup you correctly identified Old School Funk. I found him a bit questionable at first too, so I watched several of his videos. As a car flipper he takes some shortcuts on cosmetics, but it looks like on important things such as a timing belt change, he won't do slipshod work. His rinkydink setup in that video is pretty identical to what I will have to work with when I attempt the same job on my Civic.

I'll have to go through the South Main channel again, I must have missed the one you are referring to.

Don't you ever mention Scotty NutBall Kilmer again! :D

California98Civic 06-01-2018 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcp123 (Post 571071)
I found these helpful. The first guy finds and flips cars which are beat down, and has a scrappy sort of working knowledge I find helpful. EricTheCarGuy is a former Honda/Acura dealer tech, and worked on these cars when they were new. Neither of these are perfect, but I find them helpful as additions to the FSM or other write-ups. ...

The first of the videos is a guy I lean on as well. His techniques f doing the head gasket without removing the timing belt is the vs I referred to above. Be aware that he will also promote his religion to you. To each their own, I say...

Xist 06-02-2018 10:30 PM

How to replace 1999 Accord timing belt (image heavy)
 
7 Attachment(s)
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1527992288
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1527992429
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http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1527992611
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1527992652

There were not too many pieces to put together, but I did not feel the need to have it say to write down the radio security code and presets four times, disconnect the alternator, prop up the oil pan, and remove a motor mount twice each.

It calls for a special wrench, although it seems that a chain wrench would work perfectly, although you may want to wrap the old timing belt around the pulley to protect it from the chain.

What do you guys think? Did I miss anything?

If everything is too small it is probably because the site shrunk everything from 3,400 x 4,400 to 464 x 600.

Should I do single column?

Reassembly is reverse of disassembly, except following torque specs and stuff. I will post it written out when I finish.

California98Civic 06-03-2018 12:41 AM

Looks pretty complete to me. Be extra careful about keeping the cam pulley still and level in position for first cyl compression stroke. And once the belt is off, don't turn the crank pulley either!

me and my metro 06-03-2018 11:59 AM

Fsm are written for professional dealer type mechanics not do it your selfers. The Chilton type of manuals try to explain things for the first time user. Hopefully they show the special tools like the crankshaft pulley holder needed to get the crank bolt loose.

California98Civic 06-03-2018 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by me and my metro (Post 571183)
Fsm are written for professional dealer type mechanics not do it your selfers. The Chilton type of manuals try to explain things for the first time user. Hopefully they show the special tools like the crankshaft pulley holder needed to get the crank bolt loose.

Agreed. But youtube has replaced the Chilton--atleast for a car as common as a sixth gen Civic. Video killed the Chilton star.

EDIT: I still have the Haynes I bought 17 years ago. It mostly holds maintainence records and rides in the car as emergency reference.


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