I must be losing my mind. Some people need to grow up!
 

I just read a bunch of posts about people not driving in the right lane, about wanting to mouth off at cops, about some imagined "right" to drive slowly in any lane.

This is ridiculous and antisocial. It leaves me light-headed to read such crap.

I drive slowly in the right lane. I never try to "make a point" by maintaining slow speed. If it looks like the closing distance of a car overtaking me is going to be extreme, I will speed up. If this happens too often, I have to accept the fact that I am simply on the wrong roadway for hypermiling. My bad.

I would never argue with a cop or try to explain why I like going slow. I will always give him the respect he deserves for doing a dangerous job that most of us do not have the guts to do. And I am never in too much of a hurry not to stop and offer my assistance if an officer may need it.

I have never been pulled over for going slow. I have never created a situation to attract a cop's attention. Cops prefer to pull over fast cars. Cops are professional suspicious people. If you are going slow, they may wonder why. Are you distracted? Are you drinking? Are you stoned? Are you feeling guilty about something they should know about? I don't want to pull them away from their duties so I speed up a bit when they're around.

The primary purpose of a highway is to move traffic effeciently. Don't get in the way of that and no one will bother you as you pursue your excellent pastime of hypermiling.

It's a difficult issue, with arguments on both sides. You should be able to do the speed limit without fear of dying in any lane. Sometimes I have to take a left lane exit or something, and find myself going 20 mph over the limit just to not get rear ended before the exit comes up. This isn't safe for anyone.

Sure, freeways are for moving people around safely and efficiently, but overly aggressive drivers, in any lane, defeat that purpose.

It's a fine debate, let's just keep it civil :)

I have to disagree with your second statement: I refuse to grow up!

Growin' up leads to growin' old
Growin' old leads to dyin'

Ptero -

Take a close look at previous threads on the subject and you'll read a nuanced definition for each driver.

I think I share many of your driving strategies, but I also try to respect the POV of other drivers on this forum.

CarloSW2

Heard this is true (it is in my case): Boys mature until the age of 6, then they just grow.

My hierarchy goes like this to decide whether or not its ok for me to stay where I am.

1.) Is the person behind me a jerk
2.) Am I doing the speed limit

If the person behind me flies up on my bumper and I am doing a reasonable speed and they stay on my bumper I will accelerate to the speed limit but no more than that(assuming I was doing maybe 5 under).

If they are a traffic hazard(wreckless endangerment by weaving through traffic causing disturbances to regular traffic flow, or speeding more than a few miles over) I intentionally stay in front of them while I call the police and report it. Then after stalling them, while I inform dispatch where I am, what make model and year the car is and they give back an estimate on the nearest officer I slip behind them and read the license plate off to them and then remain on the line until an officer arrives.

The disptachers in Washington County TN and Putnam county TN are familiar and usually just ask where I am and what car. I've been to court several times as a witness to the case when drivers complain that the officer made up the WE charges.

Driving dangerously is a crime and its your civic duty to NOT do it as well as REPORT it. Also cops give out fewer nonsense tickets when they get 15-30 WE tickets off you a month in small towns.

<edit> speeding is breaking the law. If you are going to have a law it should be enforced or it shouldn't exist. period. If you report aforementioned dangerous drivers(speeders and aggressive drivers) they lose their license and the roads become safer for everyone and in the long run insurance tables allow for lower rates</edit>

^ Wow, you're quite brave. I wouldn't think of doing that unless I were driving an armored truck. Even then, I'd be worried about being followed home and murdered in my sleep.

Its really not that big of a deal. I mean, most people are not even aware you can call that kind of thing in, but after about the 4rth time I tried it and I saw a state trooper Hauling @$$ from like a mile away and then force a car off the road I was hooked. Since most people don't know you can do that they aren't watching for someone to report them. From my experience in court the defendant is always pretty shocked when they call someone as a witness for it, as if they thought they might be able to get away with just one witness(Dash cam usually settles it though).

As far as following me home. . .well if they step across the threshold I doubt they will be able to do it twice.

The disptach came across as annoyed the first. . .five or six times I called in for things like this, now they kind of expect it. Most of the time if I can keep the person stalled I see them get pulled over, but sometimes something goes awry and then get around me before the cops get close enough to observe.

If someone is sitting way too close to my bumper then I take my foot of the gas. For safety reasons. If I have to suddenly hit the brakes and have him in my trunk, I'd rather be going 30 km/h than 50. Unfortunately, this only increases the intensity of light-flashing and honking, and sometimes ends in almost getting pushed off the road. But I'd rather be pushed off at 30 km/h than at 50...

I don't read this board that often, but from what I have read, I notice that hypermilers don't necessarily consider the big picture.

Here are some things to keep in mind....

Annoying other drivers tends to cause them to drive less efficiency, probably cancelling out any fuel savings on your part.

Driving slow and causing traffic to slow behind you, then have to change lanes, pass, and rejoin in front of you wastes a lot of additional fuel. You're creating a drag on the flow just like an object moving through a fluid.

Taking out your seats so you don't have to give someone a ride and lose mpg ends up in much more fuel use since they'll drive themselves.

You're right. My drastic slowing down is only for safety reasons. Like you, I go a little faster when I'm not alone and when someone faster than me can't easily pass. I try not to make it harder for others, but I can't exactly help break the law either, can I? Should I go over the limit only because others around me are doing so? If I have an accident while speeding with everyone else, will they pay for my damage? Drivers aren't allowed to go over, but they are allowed to stay under, and others should be prepared for that. If they aren't, they shouldn't be driving. I know this is a discussion about the law vs. real life, but real life shouldn't require me to break the law when I have the option not to.

I don't think the local law enforcement team here would be thrilled if they had to move their arses just because someone was aggresive. In Poland, and especially around Warsaw, most drivers are aggressive. And in other parts of the country, most of the road pirates as we call them have Warsaw plates. Sometimes the police will look into someone going 200 km/h in a 50 zone, but usually they don't stop speeders even if they see them with their own eyes. That's not how it should be, but that's how it is :( I once called the police to report something illegal and all they wanted to know was my name, my address, my number. It took them 45 minutes to drive there, even though they could have walked in 10. They really didn't like it when I called a second time to tell them that in a few minutes it'll be too late.

Listening to the guys at work, you MUST drive 5 mph over the speed limit or you are driving too slow. The speed limit sign actually posts the minimum speed.

I drive 50-52 mph MAX all while driving in the right lane and hugging the white line. I'll even hit the 4 ways on occasion if the traffic approaching behind me is especially heavy.

To each his own.

Well I won't go so far as to agree with the age of six...but at the age of 35 or so, I asked my grandmother who was about 78 at the time, "when do I actually start to feel like an adult?"

"Oh, I'm still waiting!" Then she went back to hoeing the garden.

Gramma's cool that way.

I'm fifty-six. No matter how old I am, people 20-30 years younger than me generally seem immature in comparison.

One would HOPE that 20-30 years additional life experience would bring about some improvement as long as the person is paying attention.

My opinion, of course.
And way off topic! (Sorry!)

I hope this is your work colleagues' opinion and not yours. In the US, a minimum speed sign exists:Attachment 3165
(found it on the Web, credits to who they are due.)
But if there is only a speed limit sign, and other laws do not state a minimum, then the posted speed is a maximum. From Wikipedia:
"Speeds so low they are dangerous or obstruct the normal flow of traffic" is a general statement and can be interpretted in two ways:

• Someone who is driving at or just below the speed limit is driving at the maximum safe speed,

• Someone who is speeding is part of the "normal flow of traffic" and has a hard time sitting behind a slow moving car. This makes him nervous and on top of speeding, often passes in no-passing zones, decreasing safety.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but from the discussion in this thread I understand that the problem is not with just slow drivers, it's with slow drivers getting in the way of fast and aggressive ones, right? And since law enforcement has a hard time weeding out the fast guys, then the only way to improve safety (and some people's inner peace) is by making the slow pokes speed up.

My personal opinion is that there should be a way of marking your car so others know that the vehicle may/must move slower. This should be for underpowered cars and for slow drivers. The driver on your tail won't know if you don't want to go faster or physically can't, so he shouldn't take it as personal offense. In Europe I've seen speed limit stickers on trucks informing other drivers about the truck's top speed, but they hardly ever have anything to do with real life (I've seen trucks with 2-3 different stickers, eg 70, 80 and 100 km/h, going 110 km/h in a 90 zone, while the law prohibits trucks in Poland from exceeding 80).

I guess I actually care about other drivers, when I feel what I'm doing is not quire right. If I'm on a one lane road driving below the limit and someone pulls behind me, I'll speed to the limit. If they still want to go faster, well then it's their problem and they'll have to wait for a proper time to pass.

The only time I'll go over the limit is when I'm passing someone. Say I'm on the cruise on a flat highway at 60, and there's someone doing 59 in front of me, eventually I'll have to pass him. If there's only us on the highway, everything's fine. But if there's traffic, instead of being a jerk staying on the cruise and passing at 1 mph over the speed of car I'm overtaking, I'll make a quick pass and resume cruise.

I'm not sure what I said was clear. IF someone gets behind me I'll do what I can to let them pass get around me whatever. IF that person is a "jerk" breaking the law in any fashion speeding driving aggressively I don't move and I call the cops.

I mentioned a buddy of mine that owns several motorcycles and he hates me. In Washington County. . .99% of all young adults that own a cafe bike ought to have their licenses revoked. He was riding with me one day(in my car to get lunch) when I called on a biker I saw behind me weaving wrecklessly(he was speeding too but I didn't know until he got up to and passed me).

Cops had him at the next exit.

All that to say IF you aren't breaking the law I'll pull over and let you by or speed up if thats not an option(to the speed limit). Break that condition and I'll do everything I can to get you ticketed.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...5&d=1239023334
We have those on the freeway, and last year they raised the minimum speed from 45 to 55. A bit amusing I think. If you're an absolute law-abider, you pretty much have to break it either before or after the sign. It goes from "speed limit 55" to "minimum speed 55", so technically you would have to cross the sign at 55 dead on. Same thing coming back, it goes from "minimum speed 55" to "speed limit 55".

I don't care, if it is winter and the road is bad, I won't even go 55. I certainly wouldn't on any other road in the same weather. The physics of driving on ice don't care what road I am on. They also used to have these signs that said "ice and snow, take it slow", which they also removed when they raised the minimum speed.

Once I was on the freeway and it was bad out, going about 45, and a cop came up behind me. He stayed on my tail for a couple minutes then I watched him do a 180 in the road and go into the ditch, thankfully he didn't get up next to me or in front of me first.

I was on the highway going to work one day and it had snowed really heavily and the trucks had not had enough time to get out and clear it. It was a somewhat unexpected snowfall.

A semi passed me and the wind combined with my already low traction sent me sliding towards the ditch. I was expecting it considering they push me significantly when its dry, so I was already braking and ready to finish the fish tail.

50mph on a 65mph highway? Like I said, you are causing other people to waste fuel by slowing down and then accelerating around you. There is nothing eco-friendly about that.

Actually. . . he said he was in the right lane. If they are not qualified enough to gauge they are catching a car before they have to decelerate, they are not driving safely. One day that lack of attention or inability will cause them to slam into someone else possibly causing injuries or death.

The issue at hand is whether or not I should save a drop of gas or I should save them a drop. screw them, if they are not intelligent enough to understand its not my job to help them. If they are too myopic to understand the idea that going 5 mph faster for an hour will only get them there about 4.5 minutes sooner and cost them safety(aforementioned) and petrol then there is little hope for them. We can only hope they do not procreate.

AND eventually if enough people do it you force the idiots to do it anyway. I'm not advocating being in the left lane hypermiling but if you are in the right lane its

That's a lot of I's and a couple me and my's for a guy who is pointing the finger. (Yup, those are all from you, i erased the rest of the text.)

Either you really think you smell like roses out there, or you didn't know that you don't have to read material you find offense. Once you open a new topic and begin to feel as though the material does not interest you, click the back button on the upper left hand corner of the browser.

Here's the thing, we all drive different cars, and we all have different lives, we all look different but we all have 1 thing in common.

Every Joe Schmoe on the road thinks they are the best driver that ever lived. Truth be told, nobody is - we all make mistakes.

Before you go pointing the finger and saying people are getting you light headed, you need to consider the fact that your post may be equally as pointless and aggravating to some people on the forum as well.

Instead of contributing quality material, you basically put down the opinions of other members, while expressing your own opinion. Not all that different you see?

I generally stand by the rule "screw em". I don't drive 20 under the limit. When i'm in my big diesel cube van, i often drive 85km/h in a 100km/h zone that generally has 120km/h traffic. Screw em. I'm not going to DOUBLE my fuel usage and spend hundreds of extra dollars that weekend becaue they don't want to pay enough attention to see my giant white truck in the slow lane soon enough that they can simply signal and move over. You don't need to change your speed in any way to pass someone that's slower than you... you just drive around them. Don't defend the sheep who can't think ahead.

In my car, i generally try to drive 95-100km/h on the highways. I stay in the slow lane. I have certainly had much less stress since i started doing this.

In general, there is NO JUSTIFYING making people break the law in the name of safety. If you want matched speeds, tell the a-hole ramming his big truck up my arse to slow down.

There are a lot of people on the road who are trying hard not to disappoint their boss or family by being late. If traffic is such that a slow car disrupts the flow, I don't mind speeding up to the official limit. Driving considerately in traffic is one way to express myself as a social being as well as a cyborg.

I just do the damn speed limit... that's what it's there for.

Beyond that, I don't care if you came up behind me like a jerkoff or like a guy who was only going faster because his tires are slightly newer than mine (larger circumference) and our speedo's aren't calibrated to each other precisely. I do not speed up, I do not slow down.

The two exceptions to this rule:

No posted speed limit. I drive 45, max. Usually closer to 35, depending on road condition.

Highways with 65+ speed limits - Yup, you guessed it. I'm the a$$hole in the right lane doing 55-60, and no faster (unless I coast faster.)

I'm nice enough to have my hazard lights on if I'm doing 45 or less, as long as I'm more than 10mph less than posted, but it doesn't happen often.

I agree with you, Matt. I drive in such a way that I obey the law, I minimize my fuel cost, and I get where I am going on time. I balance these three goals, but I never break the law. When people tailgate me, I just watch my scangauge's engine load drop slightly. Drafting usually benefits both of the cars involved. :)

The next time someone on the highway gestures for me to roll down my window and then tosses a $20 bill into my car, I'll speed a little in order to get out of their way. However, until speeders pay for my fuel, I'll drive in such a way that I minimize my cost.

If someone threw me money so I'd speed up, I'd still be just as focused on getting good mileage as I am now.

It's not all about the money, and even if it was, it's still a matter of waste. Even if someone else is paying for your fuel, now you're just not wasting *your* money... you're wasting theirs. You're still wasting a valuable resource, though, no matter who's paying for it.

I understand that you were being slightly sarcastic when you typed that, but I intended to clear it a bit.

I have no problem wasting someone else's money.

I would prefer to burn less fuel and to conserve a precious resource, and I'd like to keep emissions low (my Mazda is CA ULEV-spec :) ). Even so, my first priority is to save money and to travel as cheaply as possible.

According to the driver's Ed classes in Maryland and the MSF basic rider's course, I am supposed to increase my following distance with the car in front if I am being tailgated. That give me and the tailgater a safety cushion.

Those classes also teach that a speed limit is a upper limit.

Do they give any instructions about cattle?

If not Avoid them at all costs. I live/lived in East TN for a long time

Hypermiling (the way most people I know that do it) gives ample opportunity for those wanting to pass to do so. Rarely is there a time I can honestly say I killed more than 5 seconds of a tailgater - if that. I have no guilt for those tailgaters and other hypermiling detractors pulling for them - this is just projection....they would have wasted gas some other way and desperately trying to blame others to justify their bad driving.

Invariably, those that pass in anger fit the profile of those as determined to waste gas as many here that are trying to save it.

They have the same in CA... one of the most irritating conflicts on the motorcycle license test... how am I supposed to increase the distance between me and the car tailgating without speeding if I'm already going the speed limit?? And what if the driver of the car decides to keep tailgating up to triple digit speeds?? Never made sense to me...

I generally agree with what I've read here... on a 2-lane highway, I'll try to keep my speed within a few miles of the speed limit if cars are behind me... and I'll give them every opportunity to pass if they want to. On a multi-lane freeway, I'm much less worried about my speed ... there are a couple of long up-hill stretches where I get down to 40mph or lower... I always stick to the 'truck' lane (total of 3 lanes in my direction for this section of freeway) and turn on my flashers. Even so, I still get idjits that fly up behind me, jam on the brakes, and tailgate me... flashing their brights & occasionally even honking... while the other 2 lanes are wide open!!! I have absolutely no idea what it is they expect me to do. :confused: The only option I have is to ignore them.

I think you have it backwards. You're supposed to increase the distance between the car in front of you and yourself by slowing down when tailgated, so in the event of an emergency you can brake/decelerate at a lower rate since the person behind you doesn't have crap for braking distances.

roflwaffle -

Yup. This is one reason I follow the 3 (or 2) second rule :

http://www.beaconmutual.com/Documents/SA.07.04.01.pdf
Traffic School: The Three Second Rule - Traffic News Story - WCVB Boston
Two-second rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The 3-Second Following Distance Rule | Driver's Ed Guru

CarloSW2

I'm with Ptero and winkosmosis 100%. There's too much of an "I got mine" attitude around here. Who gave so many of you the "Jr. Traffic Enforcer" badge?

When traffic is light and I'm not impeding anyone, I will regularly drive under the speed limit by 5-10 MPH, but in heavy traffic I go with the flow. If you're driving so slowly that you think you need to put your hazard flashers on, you are a hazard -- is that a difficult concept?

I used to hear about the 2 second rule, which I always thought was cutting it way too close. Something else I have heard quite a bit in recent years is 1 second for every 10 mph, which I think makes more sense. Sure you can only expect a small fraction of all drivers to actually use a safe distance when following, but at least you can do your part by making sure you can stop if the car in front of you comes to a dead stop (someone cuts them off, deer or bear runs out, etc. I just always think if the person ahead of me were to come to a dead stop right now unexpectedly, would I be REALLY be able to avoid hitting them, including reaction time and while driving on beat up Michigan roads? Go try it sometime on a desolate back road, preferably with a passenger and a stopwatch, and see how long it really takes you to stop when they say to do so.

Now I realize in cities this will probably never work, since someone always cuts into your safe stopping distance. Once reason I really don't like driving in the city and don't live near one.

Speed with 90% of the other drivers and their usual amount of (in)attention? I'm not trying to make anyone on the road drive like me, but there are definitely other drivers trying to make me drive like them....and it's generally performance cars or pickups, with hints some are not sober (or at least levelheaded).

Wonder why traffic and road rage has gone up the past 10-20 years? People are driving worse, so why are you endorsing that as "better?"

If I was ever tempted to use my hazard lights because of my slow speed, I'd add a big sign on the back: Thank you for joining my campaign to save gas.
Please enjoy the free draft but don't touch.

If someone is not passing, and flashing their lights, they are probably worried that you are drunk or asleep.

I have a bit of a different mentality and have been on both ends of this. You stay right unless passing, it's a law in our state. Stacking up more than 5 vehicles behind you is illegal.
Many times I have been traveling the highway and come up on a huge line of traffic lead by some in-attentive driver pacing a semi-truck in the fast lane at 10 under the speed limit. I have no tolerance for this and while I'm not going to weave back and forth like and idiot I will work my way to the front and pass. Sometimes you get the evil eye as you pass said slacker, but oh well. What if you detain this person and get them pulled over and they are having some sort of emergency, and you watch their passenger squirt out a baby on the side of the road or fall over dead?
I've also been on the opposite side of things, towing a car on a trailer behind my truck up a long grade. I do my best to make sure I don't linger in the fast lane and hold up a bunch of people, if they are speeding or not.
My latest outrage occured on a vacation last summer. Myself and several friends were going camping and taking a "spirited" drive over a mountain pass. Among our group were several high end cars, an Acura NSX, 94 Supra TT, Acura Type-R, Several engine swapped Civic's, and a couple of turbocharged 240SX's. Before you start applying your prejudice, keep in mind we're all 30+ years old with families homes and mortgages like everyone else, not 16 year olds who just saw fast and furious.
While we carved corners and generally had a good time, we weren't speeding excessively, sliding around, or endangering anyone.
Approaching the top of the pass, we caught up with a huge line of trucks campers and motorhomes all doing about 40mph in a 55 zone. We passed 2 "illegal to delay 5+ vehicles" and "use slow vehicle turnout" signs and not a single slacker moved over. For 12 miles we endured these slow speeds, stinky diesel fumes, and lethargic driving. Finally as we approached the last slow vehicle turnout(i'd call them a lane they are very long) and once again-no one pulled over-we used it ourselves to pass the group and sure enough, the fingers started flying and horns wailing...