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-   -   I think Whitey's Battery is going... (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/i-think-whiteys-battery-going-22978.html)

MPGranger 08-19-2012 09:53 AM

I think Whitey's Battery is going...
 
So when I got my new ultragauge EM, I think there was some power draining. I altered the UGs power up and power down settings and it still started at a high idle. It's ran a few days without a SG2 or UG, with my wife driving, and it is still idling high at start up.

So I think the battery was drained too low and now is damaged. I don't really know much about electrical systems.
How do I check?
And if it's going, what are some FE solutions? I'm thinking deep cycle and an alternator delete.

Daox 08-19-2012 10:37 AM

High idle at startup isn't an odd occurance at all. What is the batteries resting voltage?

nemo 08-19-2012 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MPGranger (Post 322490)

So I think the battery was drained too low and now is damaged.

Why do you think that? Did you need to jump start it or charge the battery to get it to start? There can be several reason for a fast idle at start up.

MPGranger 08-19-2012 05:16 PM

it used to start up and idle at 750 rpm. And by used too I mean since November '09 when I bought it.
now it starts up and idles at 1250 rpm. And eventually it settles back down to 750 during my glides.
I'll put the battery voltage on the SG2, the UG is taking up space in the altima. Then I'll start posting some info. But it isn't idling like it used to so my question is why and what can I do to fix it?

ecomodded 08-20-2012 01:32 AM

From personal experience what you should do is buy a terminal cleaner and clean up the battery and the leads. You may have to clean the terminals 2 or 3 times in the batteries life.
I replaced a battery not to long ago to find out later it was do to tarnished connections.
Start there, then trickle charge the battery and see if she has any life left in it.
A few hours after a full charge has been completed and the battery has rested it should read 12.6 -13.8 if its still in good health. 12.5 puts it at about 80% health, so on and so forth. 12.2 volt after a few hours of rest would indicate a near dead battery and in need of replacement.
Check its fluids, add distilled water after it has been charged for a while, do not dilute it too much thinking it will help matters, keep the fluid 2 inches above the plates not near the top of the vents, you do not want to dilute it and attempt to charge it normally. Its pretty straight forward really.

euromodder 08-20-2012 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecomodded (Post 322593)
A few hours after a full charge has been completed and the battery has rested it should read 12.6 -13.8 if its still in good health. 12.5 puts it at about 80% health, so on and so forth. 12.2 volt after a few hours of rest would indicate a near dead battery and in need of replacement.

Looks like I'be looking for a new battery then ...

It's down to around 12.4 V, and under 14V (13.5 - 13.8) while charging (used to be around 14.5 V)

euromodder 08-20-2012 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecomodded (Post 322593)
A few hours after a full charge has been completed and the battery has rested it should read 12.6 -13.8 if its still in good health. 12.5 puts it at about 80% health, so on and so forth. 12.2 volt after a few hours of rest would indicate a near dead battery and in need of replacement.

Looks like I'be looking for a new battery then ...

It's down to around 12.4 V at rest (used to be 13 - 13.2 V),
and under 14V (13.5 - 13.8) while charging (used to be around 14.2 - 14.5 V)

ecomodded 08-20-2012 01:05 PM

I would switch it out also, all that charging will hurt your mpg and your alternators life span.
While charging the battery should read the same voltage as the chargers output so i am unsure why it read 14.5 volts earlier in its life if on the same charger, could be a indication of a dying cell.

Daox 08-20-2012 01:23 PM

High idle at startup has nothing to do with the battery going bad. If you think your battery is bad, you need to read the battery voltage after its been at rest for say an hour, not right after you've turned the car off.

If you're simply trying to diagnose the high idle startup I'd start looking elsewhere.

christofoo 08-20-2012 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecomodded (Post 322682)
I would switch it out also, all that charging will hurt your mpg and your alternators life span.
While charging the battery should read the same voltage as the chargers output so i am unsure why it read 14.5 volts earlier in its life if on the same charger, could be a indication of a dying cell.

I just started using a desulfating charger. (BatteryMINDer, bought it on Amazon.)

My results might not be definitive, but I believe my 2 batteries hold a charge better, and the charging asymptote has gone down. I.e. it was 2 A previously, now it is ~0.5 A.

FWIW, I don't change a battery until the starting gets weak. One of my two batteries was beginning to get weak before the desulfating charger. It "seems" a lot stronger now. This is cheaper than 1 battery, probably more environmentally friendly, and will ultimately save the cost of many batteries (assuming it works, which I probably can't say definitively for a few more years).

I wasn't clear on the testing method here, but the asymptotic charging current is a better test than the asymptotic charging voltage. I.e. run an outboard charger overnight and check the current in the morning. If the asymptote is high it will place a waste load on the alternator which will have a very small effect on MPG. I.e. ~30W for 2A, or probably 0.3-0.5%.

(Also as was pointed out, the battery is not likely the culprit on idle speed.)

ecomodded 08-20-2012 02:43 PM

With my tdi's high idle start up it was due to a near unnoticeable tarnish over the battery terminals.
The alternator belt would squeal after starting as the alternator sucked the life out of the motor to charge the battery.
Cleaned the terminals put a new battery in and the alternator belt has not squealed since.
A fully charged battery in my car makes it run like a top, a weak battery makes it take off like a slug, car is really voltage sensitive or the alternator is sucking the life out of the motor.

* But *

You may have a bad battery and something else wrong, the air conditioning increases the idle when activated for instance, or the voltage regulator is causing issues, You should be able to determine the problem with a multimeter. Since it hasn't thrown a code, it may be charge related.

nemo 08-20-2012 06:26 PM

Just do a internet search on your truck and engine, see what results you get. Specifically look at the result from forums that match your vehicle.
The first thing I would be looking for is a vacuum leak and it won't throw a code unless the ECM ( electronic control module) can't adjust the fuel trim enough to keep the air to fuel ratio correct. Had that experience before and like your truck it would idle high at start up and improve after warm up. Hope you get to the bottom of it quickly. Post what you find, I'd like to know.

MPGranger 08-20-2012 09:49 PM

Well, the battery was at 12.2 volts from my scangauge2, then I cranked it and it went to 13.6 for the bulk of the trip. It also dropped down to 11.something right before I cranked.

I was thinking it was the battery because it happened the first morning after installing my new ultragauge em and read about the battery drain issue. This is the inciting moment. Changing the scangauge to ultragauge is the only variable that I can think of.

So what should I look for for high idle issues?

Would a motorcycle tricklecharger work on my truck's battery?
Can I use some coke to clean the connectors?

ecomodded 08-21-2012 11:51 AM

First off replace the battery because some cars will up the idle to charge a depleted battery.

I use a battery tender junior for all my batteries.
I have permanent connectors on the jetski and the car.
the junior is only .750 amp and works very well.
2 amps is plenty but the 3/4 of a amp worked for all my past vehicles batteries fine, a overnight + affair.
I would suggest the full size Battery Tender, 2 amps is more reasonable, my battery tender junior came free with a motorcycle a few years back. I also have a full size 10 amp 3 stage charger i use for real charging not just topping up.

Broken sensors can cause a high idle, you should read , on the engine control sensors and modules, often they will explain what a bad sensor will cause and how to check.

I am curious how the scanquageII could drain off a battery, something small and simple (circuit board/display) like that should not be a major drain.
Off hand i would assume 0.050 amp at rest ( it may not be).
Possible it is keeping the cars computer awake or some such thing , i don't think it could be seriously effecting a battery in even a week of sitting, but i have no first hand experience, unlike some users..

MPGranger 08-21-2012 05:47 PM

scangauge didn't cause the drain, Ultragauge did and there is a section in the owners manual about it.
So clean the connectors and trickle charge the battery.
And then do some research...

Thanks guys


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