I want a hybrid side by side!
 

Lately I've really wanted to buy a side by side/UTV type vehicle and make it street legal. What I've learned is they don't get very good gas mileage in stock form. I would really love to build some sort of hybrid out of one of these. I need to get at least 30mpg.

The question is how do I do it? They sell electric ones like the Polaris Ranger, but they only have a top speed of 25mph. Does anybody know if it would be possible to increase the speed on something like that? Or is there a similar vehicle available that does 55mph? I could put a generator in the back and have a hybrid easy!

The other option would be to convert a normal gas model. How would you add electric propulsion to a small vehicle like that? Convert the front axle to electric and leave the rear gas powered? Maybe add a supplemental electric motor to the engine? (kind of like a super charger)

Just curious if anybody has any ideas before I go reinventing the wheel. Surely somebody else has done this?

You will need to look up your motor vehicle Laws in Oregon and see just what can and can't be done in your state.

My guess is you will not find a insurer for it to make it road legal.

I think it would be great if we could insure ATV's as road vehicles , I have yet to see it done, besides with dirt bikes , hmm if they can..

I'm pretty sure it can be done. It's not easy, but it can be done. I have seen them with license plates. They need a lot of equipment added. It would probably be registered as a custom/homemade vehicle. The law says side by sides cannot be made street legal, but things like sand rails and other custom hot rods are commonly street legal.

There is a UTV called the Oreion Reeper (don't have enough posts to post a link) that is street legal from the factory, but that's not quite the style I want. (And they're overpriced)

I have a idea for your hybrids motor
A electric drive with batteries for the charger a diesel motor from a reefer trucks trailer mounted refrigeration unit.
Those motors are dependable and economical

There is always a costly way to make something go faster, generally if they are street legal (based on your state) they are limited use vehicles and also LSV.

In other words LAW requires you can't go over 25mph, however certain states allow a lot of things.

Good Luck

It sounds even more challenging to do so in such a small rig than in a regular pick-up truck. due to the usually tight space available for the drivetrain. Anyway, I would probably get a small Diesel engine, maybe turbocharging it, with an alternator beefy enought to also generate some power to the electric drive. You could consider to replace the front differential with an electric motor (which must be reversible), keeping the rear wheels still driven by the internal-combustion engine even if you would ultimately manage to get them also driven by another electric motor. You could eventually try a BAS-Hybrid layout similar to the hybrid versions of the Chevy Malibu, Saturn Aura and Saturn Vue.

For why? What is it about the UTV platform the you like? Off-road, like a offroad/street legal hybrid?

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-fr...ectric-t-1.jpg

These pictures date to, apparently, 2004. As I recall it had a top speed of 45mph and a range of maybe 20. There weren't a lot of batteries under the hood.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-fr...ectric-t-2.jpg

It had a golf cart axle in back with the motor as unsprung weight.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-fr...ectric-t-3.jpg

All this would need would be a small gas/diesel fwd added. Umm, where the batteries are.... :confused: Maybe a drivetrain like the XR-3 and batteries in a pickup bed?

Is that ever cute! :thumbup:

You could slide a VW flat-4 and transaxle straight forward, used Rabbit driveshafts and position the model T grille shell right at the flywheel. The polished aluminum tranny would be stuck out front like a direct-drive supercharger and the cylinder heads would be right where you would expect them.

I am in the process of designing almost Exactly what you are describing. We need a small, (must fit in the bed of our extra cab Tundra with the tailgate up when we pull our camp trailer), 2 person light UTV. I want electric so we can see wildlife when out cruising the backroads. I'm thinking we can add a Yamaha I- 2000 generator to charge the battery while moving and stopped, they are Very quiet and light. I'm going to use a welded aluminum frame with motorcycle rear swing-arms and fork suspensions for the front. I'm looking at a Chevy Volt battery section ( E-bay $1200) and two Briggs & Stratton Etek motors, good for about 60hp max and 20-30 continuous. In AZ we can make ATV's and UTV's street legal, so a watering hole (about a mile) cruiser could happen too!

Since you're going to use motorcycle suspensions, have you never even lurked about hub-motors?

Hub Motors...Yes, but the bicycle ones are fairly low Wattage, and increase the unsprung weight, but they are not "out of the question". They may be used to make my buggy four wheel drive if needed, though all the dirt-bikes I have had, did not need the front wheels powered, they went anywhere I wanted just fine.

But the dynamics on a motorcycle are much different, as the rider has more freedom to set either a little forward or back, and this affects the weight bias which in turn can enhance the traction in slippy terrain when more weight is set backward.

Very true! I do not imagine we'll be going on trails that require AWD

So, if you're approaching the hybrid route, try to set most of the weight around the rear axle. Just like a hi-tech sandrail :D

Yep, thats the plan. I have a lot of flexibility on component placement right now. If I use one motor with a differential driving the two rear wheels, I can face the motor to the rear between the rear wheels. If I use two motors, one driving each wheel, the battery pack can go between the wheels, where it could go anyway. If I set it up with the generator ( Hybrid configuration) the battery would probably go between our legs in front, with the Gen. out back.

I assume you're not neglecting safety features of this project, such as making the battery bays watertight enough to get some decent water-crossing capability. Then, if you would also keep the generator mounted at a higher position in order to avoid the need for a snorkel and a raised exhaust pipe, could still get more batteries closer to the rear-end.

Yes, the motor is what I'm worried about the most, being out of the passenger compartment and between the MC swing arms. I have considered making a housing to surround air cooled motors, with a fan to provide forced cooling air to the, which is starting to get on the complicated side. Another option is a motor which is water cooled, complicated again, needing a radiator, but since the Li-ion battery pack I'm looking at requires cooling also, perhaps they could be on the same system. Radiator-pump- battery- motor- radiator?

Makes sense. It would probably be not so complicated as figuring out that forced air cooling setup.

My " Issue" right now, among others, is how to line the motors if using two, or the diff. output shafts if only one motor, to the swing arm pivots, so the chains to the rear wheels stay properly tensioned. I'd like to pivot the swing arms on the drive shaft from the motors-diff. to the drive sprocket, keeping the chains on the outside of the machine, for service proposes. This seems to require either four bearings per swing arm, or some kind of double bearings, which will let the swing arm pivot up and down, but the driveshaft can go through the center at several thousand rpms. Drawings to come.

If I could avoid a chain, I would. BTW have you never considered shaft-drive like the BMW R-Series motorcycles?

Heavy, complicated, and expensive. I've got it down to 4 bearings on each swing arm, two for swing arm to driveshaft and two...driveshaft to frame, the driveshaft being the swing arm pivot. I am also closely looking at the drive chains being on the inside of the swing arms, simpler... but must have very good differential output shaft alignment with the swing arm pivot axis.

Indeed.


Why not just getting a chain cover like the one used in some variations of the Honda Cub design?

Here is the current swing arm pivot-driveshaft bearing design.

Chain Cover? For what reason? I'm not familiar with the Honda Cub, but will look it up now.

To keep it sealed in a watertight case, avoiding small debris to adhere to the chain grease and accumulate there, improving the chain useful life.

Looks to be simply a "Guard" to keep fingers and sticks out of the chain. Motorcross bikes tend to just chew up and spit out either of those that venture into the chain area. I had a friend who actually ran his ring finger through the primary sprocket of a Yamaha 100. Wasn't pretty, then or ever after.

Basically, that's it. Anyway, as one of your goals for the hybrid side-by-side it to keep it silent enough to look at the wildlife from a closer distance, maybe some degree of noise suppression could be listed on the advantages of having a chain cover :thumbup:

Here is my current motor choice, somewhat expensive, but Extreme efficiency and power, and only need one of these. The current chief Engineer of these motors is the original inventor of this style Pancake motor. Too bad Briggs and Stratton does not still make these!:confused:

Don't know if that's going to be achievable, though, as you'd still be left with tire noise. In my experience, anyway, most wildlife can hear mountain bike tires, horse hooves, and even normal walking.

The Saietta motor specs: Model 95R
Efficiency, 93%
Max. continuous power 16Kw about 21 Horsepower,
Max. power intermittent 30Kw about 40 Horsepower,
Max volts 84,
Power at 48 volts,9.5 Kw, about 12.5 Horsepower, continuous,
Weight 24.2 lbs.,
Length 4.7 inches,
Diameter 8.1 inches
Price, $1406.00 plus shipping from England...ouch! But there is nothing I have found that even comes close to this.

"Silent Enough"...I know it will not be completely silent, but compared to a Ice powered machine, it should be a lot "quieter". Probably about golf cart sound with some added chain noise, though those can always be changed to Timing belt drive. Not sure how well the belts will deal with the Electric motor Torque curve, though I don't plan on going full throttle from a stop very often...

Maybe you could also consider belt drive, like Harley-Davidson still uses. Considering that many industrial equipments use belt drives and electric motors, it seems safe.

Yes, I like the Belt Drive idea a lot, I was planning to use them on my Auto X-Prize car too for the weight, reliability, and quietness. Since this buggy made from a couple of dirt bikes, has several issues to be worked out before final drive selection, I'll probable start with chain drives, as they already exist on the donor bikes...when I find them.

I had a chain drive on my electric drive hybrid, and found the noise intolerable.
On a motorcycle converted to electric with chain drives, they are very noisy, find some youtube videos you can hear what I mean.
With gas motors, you just don't hear the chain buzz so much.

I fabricated a shaft drive using the differential output of a FWD transmission for a 3.xx:1 gear. No noise.

I agree the chain noise may be disturbing, and that can be delt with later with belt drives. I don't want to complicate this build any more than it already is. I think just eliminating the ICE noise will be a substantial improvement in the noise output, considering the the "Top" speed will only be about 40 mph. On the trails we travel, the speed will be between 20 mph and 5 mph, with 10 being about average.

I'm almost in possession on my first Donor bike...Yea! Then all I have to do is find a twin to it, cheap! It's a 2000 Yamaha YZ 400f, so a pair should be heavy duty enough for a light two seater, after all they are meant for 70+MPH over rough terrain and large jumps. I'll be doing nothing like that!

On the long run, a belt-drive is better than a chain-drive as it only requires the belt to be replaced.

I like belt drives. If this machine works as intended, it will have belt drives in the end.

OK, here is my first donor bike, a 2000 Yamaha YZ 400f, Yea...one down, one to go. I think, on some advice from an off-road race vehicle builder here, at least at first, I'm going to use a steel frame utilizing the bike frames as much as possible. This was my first plan anyway, and as they say...Keep It Simple Stupid! When I get drawing I tend to keep going to end up with the ultimate, but when it's time to build, sometimes it's better to start simple, especially with a totally new design, almost. The photo looks weird because it's actually two put together, I forgot to take one of the whole thing. It will have the top down tube cutoff about even with the tape measure in the front of the bike and just above the swingarm mount in the rear. The rear shock will lean back and mount to the seat back, and the seat base will be above the swingarm mount. The bottom tubes will be lengthened until the footwell is just behind the front tire travel. I may end up shortening the front suspension forks to get it lower. I don't need a foot of suspension travel.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...2&d=1443573041