I went to the dealer and saw cars.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

Most likely, that would also be my choice. Odd enough, even though a 3-cyl engine is often discredited as if it was always inherently inferior to a 4-cyl, the one fitted to the GR Corolla is a masterpiece of engineering.

Like anything an inline 3 cylinder engine has it's pros and cons.

One con is it's inherently unbalanced. So manufactures have to either use balancing shafts or just make it so the car (and passengers) can deal with the vibrations.

One pro is that there is no valve overlap between cylinders (unless you have some insane valve duration). This is especially helpful for performance and efficiency when turbocharging. When one cylinder's exhaust opens all the others are closed. Therefore, less back pressure on that piston.

[Piotrsko]

Cylinder fires every 240 degrees, crank pins spaced every 120 degrees. it is balanced but tend to be shaky because of the long times between. Like a single cyl engine, won't every be truly smooth

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Why go with a belt instead of a chain? They save $2 or something stupid?

Timing belts are: Cheaper, quieter, vibrate less, and are more efficient than a timing chain. They are also easier to change because they are outside of the engine while a timing chain is inside because it needs to run in an oil bath.

Wet timing belts are more efficient than dry ones and last longer. They do give up the easier to change part but you look at one change in the lifetime of a vehicles instead of 2 with a modern dry timing belt or 4 with with an old dry belt that needed to be changed every 60K miles.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by JSH

Wet timing belts are more efficient than dry ones and last longer. They do give up the easier to change part but you look at one change in the lifetime of a vehicles instead of 2 with a modern dry timing belt or 4 with with an old dry belt that needed to be changed every 60K miles.

I certainly hope they last that long. There's a lot of stuff on the internet that says they don't. We'll see.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I certainly hope they last that long. There's a lot of stuff on the internet that says they don't. We'll see.

Wet timing belts have been used since 2007 in Europe. They are newer to the USA and suffer from a uniquely US problem - US owners in general do not do vehicle maintenance by the book. Using the wrong oil or not changing it on time can cause accelerated belt wear. (The wrong oil can increase wear and oil increases in acidity with age - which attacks the belt). Fortunately most engines with wet belts also allow them to be easily visually inspected and there are go / no go gauges that can be used to check belt conditon.

In the USA we seem to be allergic to actually following the manufacturer's maintenance schedule - which is based on years and millions of miles of testing.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by JSH

Wet timing belts have been used since 2007 in Europe.

I've heard they have a poor reputation there as well. But I could be wrong, I don't live in Europe.

Originally Posted by JSH

...and suffer from a uniquely US problem - US owners in general do not do vehicle maintenance by the book...

In the USA we seem to be allergic to actually following the manufacturer's maintenance schedule - which is based on years and millions of miles of testing.

Isn't this the truth. This is one reason I hate the idea of buying another used car. I've seen lots of used cars that the previous owners obviously didn't care to follow the owner's manual that have resulted in major problems.

There are basically two types of owners who are selling their car (to a dealer or private): ones who just want a new car every few years (or maybe they leased) and the ones who know their car is on the brink of sudden failure.

Originally Posted by JSH

Fortunately most engines with wet belts also allow them to be easily visually inspected and there are go / no go gauges that can be used to check belt conditon.

It sounds like the GM 1.2L engine in the Trax, Trailblazer and others is difficult to inspect or replace. The opening is on the bottom of the engine, apparently part of the oil pan, or next to it. And I'm not sure you can see the teeth without removing the belt, with requires special tools that fit up in there and remove all the sprockets.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by JSH

Timing belts are: ...more efficient than a timing chain.

I'm willing to be convinced, but conventional wisdom is that chains are much more efficient. The reason bicycles use a chain is due to the very high efficiency.

The trend toward wider chain adoption also suggests those advantages outweigh the cost savings of a belt.

Camrys with a timing belt might go through 4 in the lifetime of the vehicle. Fortunately it's a non-interference engine, so when they let go exactly 1 mile after the maintenance interval, no damage is done. Burdening an owner with a $1,500 belt replacement every 90k miles doesn't sound like a good solution.

[Piotrsko]

$1500 cam belt replacement? I want one of those. TDI Golf is $3,000, got to spend a bunch of time disassembling the front to get to it.... don't recall if it has a timed lifecycle, does use 5 EXPENSIVE special tools only from VW.

Suspect there are many '13 TDI still running the factory installed one. Except for the knife marks cutting it out, looked good enough to consider re-use

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

$1500 cam belt replacement? I want one of those. TDI Golf is $3,000, got to spend a bunch of time disassembling the front to get to it.... don't recall if it has a timed lifecycle, does use 5 EXPENSIVE special tools only from VW.

Suspect there are many '13 TDI still running the factory installed one. Except for the knife marks cutting it out, looked good enough to consider re-use

My experience with my friend's VW ownership over the years is that everything is about double the cost. Just checking spark plugs required removing the exhaust header, and it required torx tools, which I didn't have then.

When his alternator died, I didn't touch it. The shop charged him twice what it would cost to replace an alternator on most any other make.

[freebeard]

The mechanics at the local VW shop said they preferred working on the Golf, to working on the New Beetle (under the dashboard IIRC).