ICE to EV convesion, but you cant tell!

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by Ecky

Arguably they're more fun, but that's somewhat context sensitive...

When you mash the throttle, while the engine spins up to the required RPM to produce the power demand, the battery fills in, so you actually have quicker response than a manual.

And there's also one's own definition of fun. Not everyone finds mashing the throttle and quick response as fun.

To me, automatics are fine, they work, but all of them are boring. I don't like getting pressed into the back of my seat, nor does split second responses impress me, so no amount of quick, nimble shifting is going to make an automatic fun in my personal opinion. Personally, I like feeling like I'm part of the mechanical connection between my brain and my wheels, so to speak. For an example, to me, my 1985 VW Golf with a 1.6L naturally aspirated diesel that was quite a bit slower than my 1972 VW Super Beetle was a very, very fun car to drive.

Now, I'm not saying I hate automatics. All my cars now are automatic. But they are also just appliances in my book, appliances that get me from point A to point B and do nothing more than that.

I guess that's why I come to this forum so often, because there just isn't a newer car out there that's interesting to me. Maybe something I could off-road in. But the chances of me buying something like that are pretty much none. If my Avalon were to die a tragic, unrecoverable death tomorrow, I really don't know what in the world I would get. I might try to go for an older car with a manual for the fun of it. But then again, I'm not sure if that would be the reasonable thing to do, as it has been mentioned that they are no longer the cheaper and more efficient option, nor are older cars safer.

I guess I worry too much about things that haven't happened yet.

[freebeard]

Opportunity hasn't happened.

Flat screen Super.

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

And there's also one's own definition of fun. Not everyone finds mashing the throttle and quick response as fun.

To me, automatics are fine, they work, but all of them are boring. I don't like getting pressed into the back of my seat, nor does split second responses impress me, so no amount of quick, nimble shifting is going to make an automatic fun in my personal opinion. Personally, I like feeling like I'm part of the mechanical connection between my brain and my wheels, so to speak. For an example, to me, my 1985 VW Golf with a 1.6L naturally aspirated diesel that was quite a bit slower than my 1972 VW Super Beetle was a very, very fun car to drive.

Now, I'm not saying I hate automatics. All my cars now are automatic. But they are also just appliances in my book, appliances that get me from point A to point B and do nothing more than that.

I guess that's why I come to this forum so often, because there just isn't a newer car out there that's interesting to me. Maybe something I could off-road in. But the chances of me buying something like that are pretty much none. If my Avalon were to die a tragic, unrecoverable death tomorrow, I really don't know what in the world I would get. I might try to go for an older car with a manual for the fun of it. But then again, I'm not sure if that would be the reasonable thing to do, as it has been mentioned that they are no longer the cheaper and more efficient option, nor are older cars safer.

I guess I worry too much about things that haven't happened yet.

These are all fair points, but I'd say there are degrees of boring. Toyota's HSD isn't the worst, but it removes the driver connection more than most. My experience driving one daily is that it's a drivetrain that takes into consideration what the driver wants, then does what it's going to do, how it wants to do it. Generally that means getting very consistently good fuel economy, even with poor drivers. They really defeat the nut behind the wheel and burn less fuel in a very consistent and reliable way.

My example of flapping the throttle wasn't intended to show how much I enjoy flapping the throttle, but to instead indicate how much the HSD ignores driver input.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Ecky

These are all fair points, but I'd say there are degrees of boring. Toyota's HSD isn't the worst, but it removes the driver connection more than most.

I've owned two 2nd Gen Prius. My parents had a 3rd gen and now a 2024 RAV4 hybrid. I've driven 2025 Camry and Prius for a week each. I agree that Toyota has fallen behind on 2-motor hybrids. The Honda system just drives a lot better.

As you mentioned the Toyota HSD is dated to a time when it was an advantage to have a smaller and cheaper motor assisted by a gearset. Times have changed and those gears really aren't needed anymore. It is a rock solid and reliable system though and that is likely why they are sticking with it.

[freebeard]

Re: Permalink #6

I suggested a Powerglide two speed automatic sans torque converter as a base. It's been done.

Dual Motor Electric Vehicle Drivetrain With Powerglide 2 Speed Transmission Walkthrough by EV West

They use two Warp 11 motors in tandem (54" long) for 4-600 horsepower. While the Powerglide can absorb immense amounts of power; possibly more relevant is that Chevrolets from 1950 to 1973 came equipped with them. And as mentioned at Permalink #6 for 1963 and later the aluminum case was 100 lb lighter. For instance the Tri-year Chevy Nomad was available with the Powerglide.

I'd be skeptical of the weight of those 30 gallon motors. But the Park pawl is nice.