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Old 03-19-2013, 01:44 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Diesels are getting smoothier nowadays




Take a Mazda Miata, delete the P/S and A/C, do some moderate aeromods, get some lighter front fenders, engine hood (occasionally could get a single-piece front clip), doors and trunk lid, and then you'd have a good base for such project...
A miata is rear wheel drive with a differential... the Razor uses a FWD drivetrain in the rear. Plus after all is said and done... you still have a miata

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You would need to remake the cooling system for the battery pack. Maybe put it under the seat with a reusable filter and a water trap to keep it dry. If you plan on having heating or cooling make sure a vent goes into the cooling system for the pack as well.
True... I'm sure there would be a lot of things to work out. I don't know the dimensions of the battery pack. If I were to seriously do it I would contact SLC and tell them what I'm doing. That's what is so nice... since they are a custom car company they will work with you.

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Old 03-20-2013, 01:35 AM   #52 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
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Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
A miata is rear wheel drive with a differential... the Razor uses a FWD drivetrain in the rear. Plus after all is said and done... you still have a miata
The Miata not an impressive vehicle after all, but is a good base for ecomodding. As one of the few compact front-engine RWD platforms currently available, it's a good option to play with many different setups Including eventually throwing an FWD drivetrain inside its trunk
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:02 PM   #53 (permalink)
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I'd also install twin turbos on it, get another battery to install in parallel, figure out how to install a flywheel mechanism to further increase it's recharge rate, and squeeze it into a Porsche 911 GT3 RS.

Or,
I could just get a Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid and skip with all the retrofits!
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:35 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Ultimately the only thing that makes any sense is a lightweight more or less open wheeler body 3 wheeler much like a FWD Morgan, which means the stock trans equipment and FE can be used entirely. Handling isnt too compromised on this type of trike configuration, and its certainly making the most of drag reduction and having a capacity for lightness.

Performance expectations are reasonably high, as it would deal with most of the traffic off the line quite easily, the CVT should wind up in the higher gear ranges fairly quickly too.

As for modding a Prius, work out the specific fuel consumption in lbs per HP per Hr, then sort out an electric drive, with battery supply and full time gen set. The car drives on electricity off the gen-set, and any surplus power goes to the battery. So in high demand situations the battery also provides power.

I guess you could call it load levelling as much as anything else. The object is to store normally wasted energy in batteries, and consume that as supplementary power as required. I think you would be looking at something around 10Hp gen-set, but it would need to be very efficient.

Prius is perfect in some ways, it is already a proven aerodynamic shape of what is a full sized 5 seat aluminium car, and it conquers aspects of power brakes and power steering quite neatly.

Last edited by sidecar; 03-26-2013 at 01:44 PM..
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:10 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Has anyone really put much thought into this vs just tossing out makes and models of cars? Is there a car with better aero than the Prius? Is there a more efficient and clean GAS engine than what the prius comes with?

+1 for a larger or several balanced checked/cycled batteries in parallel, maybe even solar assist or grid charge.

Not knowing aero off hand I think of a s2000, miata or some small 2 seater car that is light weight, low celling, ground hugger.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:00 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb View Post
Is there a car with better aero than the Prius?
The Prius has better aero even than the Opel Calibra (0.26 for the 8-valve and 0.29 for the other versions due to the higher cooling openings).
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:20 PM   #57 (permalink)
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I don't think I would do a swap to put Prius mechanicals into another car. Ford did similar with the Escape but that was using their own hardware - they licensed the tech from Toyota because theirs was so similar, did the licensing just to cover legal tripwires. But generally I think I'd be happier with most of my cars converted to a small diesel, not a hybrid.

I do mostly medium-long distance commutes, a hybrid's forte is stop-start. 22 miles to work, 17 on Interstate. Kids go to classes, 5 miles on high-speed highway, 10 on medium-speed with a few stops. Diesel is a better solution for the projected use. Occasional light towing (generally under 2000lbs) in the truck = diesel.
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:18 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Has anyone thought about putting the prius guts into a small personal plane?!
98hp is more than enough to get a plane in the air and up to a reasonable cruise speed and altitude.
Using the Electric drive at altitude, with the assistance of solar panels on the wings and fuselage.

When the enigne is off, use "regen" braking as you coast(dasend) after depleting the battery.
Planes increase in speed or stay constant in a dasend, creating an ungodly coast while charging the battery to full capacity through the constant rotation of the prop. Use the Engines power to climb back up to altitude, cruise on electric until depleted, then desend again for regeneration. As well as mixing your electric use and Regen on Final Approach.
Engine>Electric>regen>Engine>electric>regen

EDIT: Yup there are tons of stories and articles about hybrid planes, with some really impressive "mpg" figures. But not a whole lot on commercially built for the avid flyer, that could afford it

EDIT:: Car wise i wouldnt mind having the system in a lightened /aeromodded C6 Corvette, with hybrid-AWD. keep the live axle and bolt up the electric motor, and incorporate the front wheel drive. just might be bareble to drive in the winter months. Add an additional Sport Mode to use both systems in tandem for AWD performance. The Electric assistance would help out in standing launches, not to mention probably have some good get up and go performance from a system that utilizes only 138Hp combined
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Last edited by RiderofBikes; 03-27-2013 at 02:43 PM..
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:26 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elhigh View Post
I don't think I would do a swap to put Prius mechanicals into another car. Ford did similar with the Escape but that was using their own hardware - they licensed the tech from Toyota because theirs was so similar, did the licensing just to cover legal tripwires. But generally I think I'd be happier with most of my cars converted to a small diesel, not a hybrid.

I do mostly medium-long distance commutes, a hybrid's forte is stop-start. 22 miles to work, 17 on Interstate. Kids go to classes, 5 miles on high-speed highway, 10 on medium-speed with a few stops. Diesel is a better solution for the projected use. Occasional light towing (generally under 2000lbs) in the truck = diesel.
I think the possibilities for maximising MPG are dependent on test conditions, and that could favour a diesel tuned to a particular gearing and speed wherever those conditions exist. The problem is the world isnt like that, driving conditions vary as stop start in cities, to hills and curves limiting optimum cruising conditions in other places.

Even on a completely flat straight course, it is a juggle for resistance at a given speed vs the fuel spent overcoming that resistance. It is on one hand speed limited, and on the other speed optimised, making an optimum mechanical arrangement only suitable within a narrow scope of conditions.

Ultimately there is no complete solution to defeating these circumstances, at some point the benefits of load balancing come to the fore, this in some sense is what a hybrid is meant to achieve.
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:44 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiderofBikes View Post
Has anyone thought about putting the prius guts into a small personal plane?!

98hp is more than enough to get a plane in the air and up to a reasonable cruise speed and altitude.
Using the Electric drive at altitude, with the assistance of solar panels on the wings and fuselage.

When the enigne is off, use "regen" braking as you coast(dasend) after depleting the battery.
Planes increase in speed or stay constant in a dasend, creating an ungodly coast while charging the battery to full capacity through the constant rotation of the prop. Use the Engines power to climb back up to altitude, cruise on electric until depleted, then desend again for regeneration. As well as mixing your electric use and Regen on Final Approach.

Engine>Electric>regen>Engine>electric>regen

(At the time of this writing, i have no knowledge of Hybrid planes, but im sure there out there) >.>
Various things have been considered, but with aircraft the matter of weight becomes of paramount importance, it affects the runway rollout, the rate of climb, and the HP required for cruising.

On some platforms it would make sense within a limited scope, say for instance supplementary power on takeoff would allow a smaller cheaper powerplant that is optimised for cruising speed. VTOL platforms only requiring maximum power for the duration to the point where translational lift from wing (even rotary wing) and flap devices that have achieved a particular airspeed to attain a tolerable cruising attitude. Usually engine driven thrust contributes to lift primarily, with lift appropriated from wings and high lift devices sharing and eventually replacing that thrust burden as flying speed is achieved.

Ground Effect Vehicles are similarly disposed, (look up machines such as ESKA 1) are another, as they require 2.5x the power needed for takeoff that is used at cruising speed, problematic for engine designers and not conducive to the use of simple fixed pitch airscrews, conventional in lightweight designs.

From memory very few aircraft have fit this profile and have been type approved. One was the Fairey Rotordyne, which had tip jets at the rotor blade tips, and propellers fitted to short conventional wings for horizontal flight. While the platform had operational and design success, it wasnt a commercial success

One of the problems is in obtaining type approval for the aircraft regime is tightly regulated. Lightweight divisions suitable for experimentation are limited in the fuel they can carry, therefore the operating range is expected to be short, probably too short to make it worthwhile. Larger designs are a lot more tightly regulated, perhaps prohibitively so. Certainly very few motor car engines have been approved for civil use in conventional flight but for a few very expensive privately organised affairs.


Last edited by sidecar; 03-27-2013 at 02:50 PM..
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