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-   -   Import Tuner Magazine : Project Sipper ('92 Civic VX) (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/import-tuner-magazine-project-sipper-92-civic-vx-26831.html)

Cd 08-31-2013 03:01 PM

Import Tuner Magazine : Project Sipper ('92 Civic VX)
 
I just saw that Import Tuner magazine has a project car ( A '92 Civic VX ) that they will try to get the best MPG out of that they can.

So far they are concentrating on weight reduction, and seem to be a bit shy with the aero treatment. I would have liked to see them work more on the aero of the car, since these guys are professionals and could make the car look sharp.

I think a lot of guys would change their view of an aero-modded car if a major " accepted " magazine showed how that it is possible to aero-mod a car and have it still look "cool"

Actually, they have done a few mods that are very familiar here - they installed a kamm-back spoiler and blocked off the fog light holes, and are planning a belly-pan as well next issue.

To my surprise, they have the current issue online.

Here is the link

Part one :1992 Honda Civic VX - Import Tuner Magazine

Part two
1992 Honda Civic VX - Import Tuner Magazine

I can't wait to see what these guys come up with ( and what kind of results they get ) :thumbup:

Cd 08-31-2013 03:07 PM

" The plan is to build a visually appealing car with absolutely no compromise to its looks. No spaceship body kit, ugly wheel covers, or teardrop-shaped nose cones. "

Teardrop-shaped nose cones ? Nose cone ? The cone goes at the back of the car :-)
Installing the cone at the front of the car does virtually nothing for the aerodynamics of the car unless it acts as a grille block or the car reaches over 250 mph . ( or was that 350 ? )

Cd 08-31-2013 03:15 PM

Check out their cool kammback : http://image.importtuner.com/f/tech/...ag-wing-41.jpg

cbaber 08-31-2013 03:34 PM

Did they create any type of baseline number in the first issue? I think we here at EcoModder are going to be disappointed in the results, but they will probably be happy. If they don't get over 75 MPG than the whole thing was a joke. We've got basically stock cars that get over 60 MPG, without the thousands and thousands of dollars worth of carbon fiber they put on the car.

I think they had the right idea with weight savings, but they went too far. It's already a light car compared to everything else on the road. I would have rather seen more investment into tuning the lean burn, and "hidden" aero mods.

markweatherill 08-31-2013 04:00 PM

An mpg-themed exercise in product placement. Next month: same thing, different excuse.

redpoint5 08-31-2013 04:29 PM

Seems like the article is a long advertisement for various aftermarket part suppliers and installers.

Since they spent so much money to reduce a couple pounds, I'm surprised they didn't go with lightweight wheels.

Cd 08-31-2013 05:03 PM

It's not a surprise though that they are using so many aftermarket parts. They are a magazine that sells stuff to stay afloat.
For instance that carbon fiber kamm-back could have been made from scrap Coroplast and cost hundreds ( thousands ? ) less, been lighter, and been just as effective.
But that's not going to sell any products.

cbaber 08-31-2013 05:19 PM

Whats really interesting is that they spent a lot of money on the custom carbon fiber, but then got the cheapest camber kit available. I mean Blox is pretty much an eBay brand. It's bottom of the barrel in the Honda tuning community, a slight step up from the no-brand eBay crap. It will work just fine, I even bought that same set to use on my Del Sol years ago, but for an "all out" build they chose some interesting brands.

I think this is evidence to prove the theories above, about this being just product sales. If there is any good to come out of this, it's that there is another VX still on the road, and more exposure to ecoModding in the main stream car crowd.

Frank Lee 08-31-2013 05:35 PM

Quote:

...about this being just product sales.
Aren't they all?

oil pan 4 08-31-2013 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cd (Post 388197)
For instance that carbon fiber kamm-back could have been made from scrap Coroplast and cost hundreds ( thousands ? ) less, been lighter, and been just as effective.
But that's not going to sell any products.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbaber (Post 388200)
Whats really interesting is that they spent a lot of money on the custom carbon fiber, but then got the cheapest camber kit available.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cd (Post 388189)
" The plan is to build a visually appealing car with absolutely no compromise to its looks. No spaceship body kit, ugly wheel covers, or teardrop-shaped nose cones. "

Teardrop-shaped nose cones ? Nose cone ? The cone goes at the back of the car :-)
Installing the cone at the front of the car does virtually nothing for the aerodynamics of the car unless it acts as a grille block or the car reaches over 250 mph . ( or was that 350 ? )

What do you expect from a magazine that is trying to appeal to kids who draw cars with rockets and machine guns on them during math class?

Cd 08-31-2013 07:43 PM

From the page one link " : "From the get-go, our goals are simple. We're building this Civic as a reliable daily driver that delivers excellent fuel economy, but not at the expense of practicality. The car would have to be visually appealing to the masses with absolutely no compromising on its looks. No spaceship body kit, ugly wheel covers, or teardrop-shaped nose cones. Forget terms like hypermiling, hybrid technology, crosswind barrier, and drafting. These are blasphemous words frequently used by eco-friendly drivers, not us. The complex usage of "pulse and glide" acceleration pedal techniques in an attempt to save fuel isn't what this project is about. We're planning on driving this car like your average teenager trying to impress the cheerleading squad. "

Eco friendly drivers ? You say that as if it's a bad thing ;-)

And as far as making the car visually appealing, why tear out every bit of the interior ?
Perhaps the idea is to make the car look visually appealing at 50 ft.

gone-ot 08-31-2013 08:38 PM

...selling "band-aids" to patients with amputated limps?

pgfpro 08-31-2013 09:51 PM

I think its a good thing. The younger generation is just starting to get into the ecomodding thing and this is just a step in the right direction.:thumbup:

niky 08-31-2013 10:31 PM

So "free" driving techniques are not as important as carbon-fiber bodykits? Not what we preach at our magazine... (then again, we basically sell brand new cars, so call me a pot calling out a kettle...) :D

UltArc 09-02-2013 08:01 PM

I can't find it now, even after extensive searching, but a more educated individual may have an easier time finding it, or may know exactly what it is. On some planes, or maybe projectiles, there is a small flat part on a pole coming from the front. The air hits it, and the plane/projectile flies with less drag, as the surface area is small for that portion, and the whole thing goes through the wake (?).

I may not be describing it as well as I could, but hopefully someone knows- I didn't want to post a whole new thread on it, nor could I find the thread already here.

POINT BEING- I think these people expect ecomodders/hypermilers to all put giant nose cones or crazy (dangerous) things on their cars to get better mpg.

Eco_Bob 09-03-2013 03:05 PM

Canards?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by UltArc (Post 388453)
I can't find it now, even after extensive searching, but a more educated individual may have an easier time finding it, or may know exactly what it is. On some planes, or maybe projectiles, there is a small flat part on a pole coming from the front. The air hits it, and the plane/projectile flies with less drag, as the surface area is small for that portion, and the whole thing goes through the wake (?).
...


Canards?
Canard (aeronautics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also found on the "Concordski"
Tupolev Tu-144 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

MetroMPG 09-03-2013 04:20 PM

I think this is great!

Even if they're using expensive aftermarket stuff to prove the point (and please their sponsors), the people who read it who are actually interested in doing something similar will quickly figure out the only financially workable route is DIY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbaber (Post 388192)
Did they create any type of baseline number in the first issue?

Quote:

When tested on the road returning back from Sactown, we achieved 45 mpg highway at best, even before we began modifications. We hit 43 to 45 mpg on our first road trip, accelerating normally (no hypermiling here) after doing between 65 and 75 on the highway for the majority of the trip. With future mods, the car will probably average 60-plus mpg without breaking a sweat.


MetroMPG 09-03-2013 04:29 PM

The fact that people aren't commenting on the article on their web site is a little sad. Wrong target audience, I suppose.

To date: ZERO comments on either part 1 or 2!

MetroMPG 09-03-2013 04:31 PM

Oh, and they don't copy/paste well. They called it an "MPG Guino" :) . (Part 2)

TheIVJackal 09-03-2013 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG (Post 388613)
The fact that people aren't commenting on the article on their web site is a little sad. Wrong target audience, I suppose.

To date: ZERO comments on either part 1 or 2!

I don't think their site gets much foot-traffic in general, most people read the magazines but don't visit the site. Looked at a few other articles, zero comments there as well.
I still think the publicity for fuel-efficient mod's is a positive though.
- Aaron

kaiba 09-03-2013 06:20 PM

Import Tuner Magazine Vs Ecomodder VX owner


Anyone wanna guess how much they spent. $$$$$$$$

UltArc 09-03-2013 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eco_Bob (Post 388588)

Neither of these two... :/

oil pan 4 09-04-2013 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaiba (Post 388643)
Import Tuner Magazine Vs Ecomodder VX owner


Anyone wanna guess how much they spent. $$$$$$$$

Since weight reduction by replacing OEM parts with lighter aftermarket ones is about the most expensive and least effective way I can think of to increase MPGs I would say its a big number.
If you only spend $20 per pound lost you are doing pretty good.

slownugly 09-04-2013 11:18 AM

i wonder if it still has the california spec p07. and i wonder if they know the ecu is very difficult to tune :/

spacemanspif 09-04-2013 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slownugly (Post 388734)
and i wonder if they know the ecu is very difficult to tune :/

I thought they were easy to tune with that ECU they are using (basically Honda specific megasuirt?) I think it will be very interesting to see what guys who usually tune for power can do for an economy tune. Just kinda wish that they would tests between mods to give the non-informed reader an idea of what makes the most difference. Very cool project though :)

cbaber 09-04-2013 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slownugly (Post 388734)
i wonder if it still has the california spec p07. and i wonder if they know the ecu is very difficult to tune :/

Being Honda guru's, they are probably going to swap out the ECU in favor of a chipped one that they can custom tune. It is possible to add in lean burn that isn't as picky as the factory tune, so I am curious to see the results. But as mentioned, these guys are not serious about adapting their driving style to improve fuel economy, so any gains from their modifications are going to be dampened by their poor driving skills.

slownugly 09-04-2013 11:56 AM

Ohhhhh yea I didn't see they are using hondata. My bad. Very cool project. Im looking forward to the tuning part. They might need to add a 4 wire oxygen sensor in place of the wideband factory one though. The tuning shop in Ohio eliminated the need for 5 wire 02 and egr with their tunes.

pgfpro 09-04-2013 12:13 PM

"The plan is to lower the car, fit it with aftermarket wheels, custom aero work, full exhaust system, engine work, and finally tune using a Hondata S300 engine management system. What sounds like your average tuner vehicle is anything but typical to a hypermiler. Believe me when I say this build consists of using methods that would shock your average eco driver/car owner."

They will probably run a P28 ecu with their Hondata S300. This will give them full control of VTEC cross over and a fuel map with lean burn light load input values.
They should be able to run a wideband O2 and simulate factory O2 if they want, or just run it in open loop. That's what I did on my Del Sol with Neptune on a socketed P28 ecu.

They should have much better results then stock in FE. The question I wonder is will they be checking for NOx when they push it past the stock lean burn A/F ratio's???

MetroMPG 09-04-2013 12:24 PM

Silly, of course they'll be checking for NOS!

Also: http://falkentire.com/community/blog...ip-civic-build (did someone post that one already?)

niky 09-04-2013 12:47 PM

No, no... that's NAWWWWWS...

slownugly 09-04-2013 01:06 PM

New Old Stock? haha

kaiba 09-04-2013 01:43 PM

I've total up all the fancy carbon, performance and suspension parts at msrp. Total came up to $6854.98


Seibon Hood $620.00
Seibon Doors $2200.00
Seibon Tailgate $720.00
GPRAuto drag wing $350.00
LAF L/R side glass 156.97 x2
LAF Rear glass $289.97
Spoon style (ebay)side mirror $30.00

Blox camber Front $179.90
Blox camber rear $109.90
Blox lower control arm $ $135.00
ST coilover kit $949.99
Buddy Club Spec II exhuast $ 495.00
DC sport header 4-2-1 $371.28
Blox test pipe $90.00


Adding the cost of the car, paint job and other parts, their fuel efficient VX has cost them over $9,000.00

They could've bought a nice a 1st gen Honda Insigt and call it day.


http://images.wikia.com/cardfight/im...02-496-370.jpg

kaiba 09-04-2013 01:51 PM

"What was most satisfying to everyone was that the Ecorun Civic met the projected goal of 60 mpg on the flat highways, and 50 to 55 mpg on mountainous terrain."

http://www.moderntiredealer.com/chan...x?prestitial=1

svt98t 09-04-2013 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltArc (Post 388644)
Neither of these two... :/

pitot tube?

-ryan s.

cbaber 09-04-2013 04:43 PM

$9000 for 60 MPG? Why didn't the just get some advice from WD40's Civic VX? They covered 2000 miles during summer, WD40 has covered 68,000 miles and is at 57.5 lifetime MPG.

While I guess this is good press and coverage for ecomodding, I am still disappointed at the results. All of ecomodder.com's top 10 gas cars are over 60 MPG, 7 out of 10 of them sharing a similar platform to the magazine car. And I bet you they haven't invested $9000 to get 60 MPG.

UFO 09-04-2013 04:57 PM

Dude, it's got to LOOK good. Looks are everything.

Xist 09-04-2013 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UFO (Post 388790)
Dude, it's got to LOOK good. Looks are everything.

Does it look economical? Does it sound economical?

Don't those magazines usually focus on cars that look and sound fast, instead of testing them on dynos and on tracks?

spacemanspif 09-05-2013 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG (Post 388743)
Silly, of course they'll be checking for NOS!

That is a terribly misinformed statement. You only need NOS when there are 2 Jay Zs around :p

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2437/3...c41e64eaac.jpg

Hondas are so fast from the factory that they don't need cheap power in a bottle.

Can someone please make sure to post up when Import Tuner updates the project...its not exactly a website I visit on a daily basis lol.

Xist 09-05-2013 12:43 AM

Wow. I think that picture caused a micro aneurysm.

Exactly where are those headlights pointing? They seem to be about 45 away from each other.

samwichse 09-05-2013 08:52 AM

Why did they make such a big deal about it being PRACTICAL, not like us ecomodders, but something PRACTICAL. They said PRACTICAL about 10 times like some kind of mantra... good for every day driving.

Then they proceeded to gut the entire interior, something most people here wouldn't even do due to the noise/discomfort. And remove the air conditioning. And replace the steel doors with "for offroad use only" cf parts. Would you want to get into a side impact with a brittle door like that to your side?

Seems to me they're going about it exactly 180 degrees from practical.


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