Information on fuel use for newbies
 

Hello Ecomodders! This is my first post, so please bear with me! :)

So here's my deal. We know that gasoline doesn't burn, gasoline vapor does. We also know that a primary function of catalytic converters is to burn 'unburned hydrocarbons', or also known as unburned gasoline (if they called it that, people would be up in arms about the piss-poor efficiency of gas engines).

What I need to do, it see what can be done about reducing the amount of 'unburned hydrocarbons' that leave my engine. I know this can either be done by a rather involved mod to delete fuel injectors and add a gas vaporizer and mixer to intake (not my preferred route), or to find injectors with a better atomization rate, and increase line pressure (my preferred route).

This seems like such an obvious mod, but I cannot seem to find any info on this anywhere, nor any information on a more fuel efficient fuel injector (basically, fuel atomization is what I am looking for). I am hoping some of you may have some information to point me in the right direction on this.

By the numbers, a barrel oil has the energy of 12 men working for you full time for a full year. The car I am trying to mod gets (real-world) 18 miles to the gallon. This basically means that, euphemistically, in a day 12 men could only barely pull my car 2 miles. I can push it that far in just over an hour.

This is unacceptable. If that is all the work that 12 men could do, then picture how many trillions of men it would have taken to build the pyramids of giza in only 10 years.

Help please :)
-stAtrill

Welcome to the site.

I'm sorry to have to shoot you down right off the bat, but if you somehow make an engine that burns 100% of the fuel, you'll probably see a mileage improvement of about .5 to 1%. Modern fuel injected engines burn very very close to all the fuel put into them. So, unless your vehicle is still carburated or has a very old fuel injection system, your time is best spent elsewhere on things like aeromods.

You could always put a good fuel heater on the vehicle. Then when the gasoline leaves the pressure of the fuel injection it should vaporize better. Check out "The Ultimate Fuel Economy Book" by Mike Holler (cafepress.com)
Research Tom Ogle and supercarbs.

explore this site Super Carburetors | Fuel-Efficient-Vehicles.org

Mazda SkyActive engine uses high compression dome piston and high pressure direct cylinder injection.

The reason why it has been so hard to find info is because those who have successfully implemented those techniques were dealt with harshly by the corporate boys. Either get bought off or...........The technology has been around for over 70 years. But when you are dealing with billions of dollars in potential lost revenue because of double and tripling of the mpg, they play for keeps. That's why we had leaded fuel. That's why we have ethanol in gasoline right now. We don't need it. The chemists at the refineries know how to make a fuel that reacts completely inside the engine, but doing so will reduce pollution, end the carbon fouling inside the engine, which makes the environment better, reduces health related problems ( cancer, respiratory problems ), extends the life of the engine exponentially and reduces consumption by a huge amount. That means folks who are in health care, auto manufacturers, drug manufacturers, etc who rely on things being the way they are will lose out.
The code has been cracked, but not put out on a commercial level. If you want to find out about the chemistry of fuel, you cannot use a current organic chemistry book. They will not show the cracking points of octane and hexadecane. You have to go find a book that was published at least 30 or more years ago. The numbers are still out there.

The better option is to get matched injectors of the same rate that you have now, that will have smaller variances in flow rate. This will give you more even distribution in your cylinders and/or banks, leading to more precise fuel trims imposed by the PCM.

Also realize with increased line pressure, your computer will still command the same pulse width but will actually be delivering more fuel because of the higher pressure. This will most likely require a new tune for the PCM. You will at the very least be running rich and/or have large fuel trims.

Normal maintenance like fuel filter, fuel system cleaner, synthetic oil, cleaning of throttle body, etc. will help make longer term effects. The 65+efficiency mods list is a good place to start.

Wow! Thanks for the awesome response guys! Okay, I will take this one by one:

Are you speculating?

Awesome! I have not heard of these, I will check it out! Thank you!

Agreed! I have been a hypermiler for a while, I am here asking for ideas because being a hypermiler just isn't cutting it :( (we spend over a grand a month on gas...)

I promise I wouldn't bother you guys if the problem was simple ;)

Awesome reference. This is exactly my goals for my (future) engine mod.

Precisely. Which is a reason why I am electrifying the other vehicle - I can't stand how underhanded gas interests are. The faster I can get them to stop siphoning my money the better. Not to mention these oil related wars are wearing down our wonderful country.

Absolutely. The pulse width will definitely have to be reduced.


That was the first page google landed me on. I was surprised that I didn't find this mod on there (although I don't suspect it is a common one, and that list is for 'proven' mods). And again, I promise I wouldn't bother you guys with the complex (like this) without first taking care of the basic (like normal maintenance).

Thanks again for the awesome response guys!

Nope, I've read a study done that tested and proved it. I'd gladly provide a link but I'm having troubles finding it again.

justing and cleanspeed: 4/1 was a couple days ago...

You mentioned electrifying a vehicle........ironically, when the electric car was the dominant vehicle in the US back in the early part of the 20th century, they had plenty of range. I think there is some discussion here about them, just do a search. We have some of the smartest electric car people here.

Frank Lee

poke:p

He isn't.
The indication of fuel not being (fully) burned is the amount of CO and HC in the exhaust.
These amounts are small compared to the fuel used, so here's little to be gained by having the fuel burn more completely - it already is.

It's just not being burned very efficiently in a regular ICE - hence lean-burn and Atkinson cycle on some engines.

That's over 250 gallons ...
What kind of / how many vehicles / how far are you driving to burn that much fuel ?

Whoa, this is awesome. And even someone attempting an S10 conversion (we have an astro, the work-van version). Muuuuch more room for batteries.


Thank you for confirming his post. If this isn't the best route to take, I wanted to at least know why.


Two vehicles, an SUV (Jeep Grand Cherokee) and a work van (Chevy Astro). The van is used for work 5-6 days a week at 120-150 miles a day, and the jeep is used weekly for intercity travel and errands. Using the trip and the known amount of fuel added, the van gets 16-17 miles a gallon and the jeep 18-19. The van is the candidate for conversion, as it is really close to the chevy S10, among other reasons. The jeep doesn't get enough use to warrant a full EV conversion (with the range that we need), so I was wondering about engine mods.

Honestly, I am about to that point where I might just give in and convert them both. I have been frustrated to no end by ICE's and their hidden price tag.

EDIT: Why was this moved?

My 2 cents. I edited this image from here.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1333580205
-mort

The HC (hydrocarbon)part is what could really be describe as unburned fuel.

On Diesels, the red portion is only 0.3 %, so there may still be some gains in petrol engines ;)
But as most of those 1-5% is already CO , burning it further to CO2 is not going to gain much.


I think VAG missed a bit in this publication though ... page 8
"H2O – Water
is partly induced by the engine (atmospheric humidity) or occurs during low-temperature combustion (warm-up period)."

Water is a normal by-product of burning hydrocarbons ("fuel"), during all combustion processes.
The carbon-part gives the CO2 , the hydro(gen)-part giving water.

Click the link in the notices section near the top of the page, or here http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...sed-16428.html