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-   -   Installing MPGino in 2002 Golf TDI (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/installing-mpgino-2002-golf-tdi-8290.html)

dremd 05-08-2009 06:01 PM

Installing MPGino in 2002 Golf TDI
 
Just received a pre-Assembled MPGuino Donated to me by DCB.

I have to Stress that this project would not be happening now without DCB's kindness. I Do plan on donating to him/ the project as soon as the checking account recovers from http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...time-7971.html.

Only thing accomplished so far is soldering the LCD to the unit.

More to come hopefully tonight.

Any + All information regarding the TDI's VSS + Fuel consumption is highly appreciated.

Threads which will contribute to this project.
#1) http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...lity-3978.html
2)http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...audi-4912.html
3)MPGuino - $40 FE gauge - TDIClub Forums

Very Excited.

dremd 05-08-2009 06:29 PM

Few Pics to get you guys excited
 
A Few Pics

The Surprise Package
http://gallery.me.com/dremd/100055/I...12418210320001

Well Packed (but bad pic)
http://gallery.me.com/dremd/100055/I...12418206190001

Un-Packed
http://gallery.me.com/dremd/100055/I...12418206630001

My Poor Solder Job
http://gallery.me.com/dremd/100055/I...12418207800001

dcb 05-08-2009 08:38 PM

Sweet, glad it survived. Yellow wire ground, black wire next to red, 12 volts. Car battery in driveway. Couldn't test it without the LCD, hope it boots :)

note: do try to be deliberate with the power hookup, occasionally these AVR chips mess themselves on flaky power connections.

dremd 05-08-2009 09:54 PM

Excuse my ignorance; does the +12 volt need to be switched, or always on? I Seem to remember that SVO had his wrong for a while; but I can't remember which way it goes.

Either way I'll wire it up with the main fuse out, charge all of the caps through a test light, then replace the fuse; or should I just hit it with 12 volts right off the bat?

dcb 05-08-2009 10:11 PM

The trips reside in ram so you want constant power (not switched). You can just firmly hold the power leads to the battery for an initial test.

dremd 05-08-2009 10:24 PM

As far as my untrained eyes can see; all is well with the unit!

dcb 05-08-2009 10:47 PM

Thank you for that, was not sure. In the setup screen (tap left and right together) on the newer ones (>=.81) there is an "InjTrg 0-Dn 1-Up" option that should be able to invert the signal, you want to use 1 for the audi/vw fuel consumption signal.

I also think yours might uniquely say it has a "Metric" option. It doesn't really, It just escaped in the middle of some testing.

dremd 05-09-2009 03:44 PM

Quick question; If I only hok up fuel signal; what will happen?
Will gph work?
Just trying to test.

dcb 05-09-2009 04:22 PM

That's correct, you should get an indication in gph. It may not be accurate until you get it calibrated but it should be proportional if you get the injector slope "InjTrg" setting right. Even without the vss/distance it is still very useable information there, especially for a fixed length commute (or for finding the best route).

dremd 05-09-2009 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcb (Post 103230)
That's correct, you should get an indication in gph. It may not be accurate until you get it .

Awesome; just needed that to test.



Looks Like Pin 66 on the 80 pin connector does the N146 (quantity adjustment) trick. It's a Brown and red wire; now off 2 find it.

Also working up a How 2 at the moment.

dremd 05-09-2009 07:05 PM

MayBe somebody here on EcoModder can decipher this

http://gallery.me.com/dremd/100063/w...12419097690001

Is that a Bus next to F25? Should all 3 terminals have the signal?

I do not see Brown and Red on any of the noted terminals . . . . . .

tasdrouille 05-10-2009 10:18 AM

That's weird you don't have it. I just went outside to have a look at my fuel pump harness and there is was, brown and red, right where it should be on pin #6.

dcb 05-10-2009 11:15 AM

I'm not sure the fuel adjustment signal is it. If you (or anyone) have access to a Bently manual handy then poke around for a "fuel consumption" signal I suppose.

tasdrouille 05-10-2009 11:47 AM

Dremd's pic is from the Bentley. I just searched through my copy for "fuel consumption" and it's not in there.

The quantity adjuster is what sets the fueling, and the modulating piston displacement sensor is the feed back loop. So you need to take your signal from pin 2.

Quote:

Quantity adjuster N146
The quantity adjuster is integrated in the distributor injection pump. The task of the quantity adjuster is to generate the correct injection quantity from the control signals.

The quantity adjuster is a solenoid, a type of electric motor which adjusts the position of the modulating piston via an eccentric shaft and thus regulates the fuel quantity continuously from zero to max. delivery rate.

Modulating piston movement sender G149
Supplies the control unit with information on the momentary position of the quantity adjuster in the injection pump. The injected fuel quantity is calculated from this information. Sender G149 is a non-contact sensor for measuring the angle of rotation. It is attached to the eccentric shaft of the quantity adjuster.

An alternating magnetic field is produced in a specially shaped iron core by AC voltage. A metal ring attached to the eccentric shaft moves along the iron core and influences this magnetic field. The change in the magnetic field is evaluated electronically in the control unit and indicates the position of the quantity adjuster.

dremd 05-10-2009 12:49 PM

B ad news guys; I'm sick as a dog; going to head out wit the ohm meter and find the pin at the ECU that corresponds to the 10 pin connector near the pump.

I actually own 2 bentley manuals; but have already burn up the installations on both. I guess it's time for me to just spend the $50 for a new registration.

dremd 05-10-2009 03:56 PM

Fuel pickup wired up and *working*.
I was looking at the wrong connector . . . .

On to the VSS (G22 White and Blue)
http://gallery.me.com/dremd/100063/i...12419852130001

About to pull the instrument cluster

yetimus 05-10-2009 03:59 PM

Dremd-

The fuel consumption signal I used on my TDI goes from the ECM directly to the instrument cluster. Mine is a '96 so it's probably quite a bit different from yours, but FWIW, my fuel consumption signal enters the 28-pin connector on the cluster on pin 26. In the Bentley manual, the description is "Single Connector, multi-function indicator signal."

That said, the VSS signal also goes to the instrument cluster and in my case was found on pin 27 on the cluster connector. Removing the instrument cluster to gain access to these two wires may be a minor hassle, but may be your most convenient access point. Good luck!

dremd 05-10-2009 04:04 PM

Hey Yetimus; I didn't see a fuel consumption line going to the instrument cluster on mine.
. . .
If it could be located that would eliminate a lot of work for others.

Here's the 99.5 up Cluster diagram on TDI Club

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/517/DZS...nt_Cluster.pdf

dremd 05-10-2009 06:06 PM

Good News: It's in and it reads. Speed works well, needs a little calibration, but fairly close.

Bad news: I'm thinking that the quantity adjust line must just modify some map in the pump; the mpguino readout hovers around 1/2 GPH regardless load; but does drop to 0 when there is no load. . . .

Maybe I'm missing something . . . . Setup? I just used defaults across the board.


Put in a call to my buddy with the O-Scope so I can probe the Quantity adjust line and see what we get some time next weekend.

dcb 05-10-2009 07:24 PM

I would suggest the following setup values for vw/audi(rest at default). Must get through all items to store.

VSS Pulses/Mile=13406
MicroSec/Gallon=0128800000
InjTrg 0-Dn 1-Up=1

FYI, the signal rmccomiskie and yetimus describe sounds like a wire from the ECU that should incroproate all the fuel variables into a basic duty cycle representation of fuel consumption for an onboard mpg gauge, that never gets installed in the states.

dremd 05-10-2009 07:43 PM

Settings edited.

Now GPH hovers around 15 GPH.
Speed reads a little lower than I remember it reading before.

dcb 05-10-2009 08:57 PM

I'm a little lost as to where exactly to get the fuel consumption signal. Might have to wait for the O-scope. Thanks, and hope you feel better.

yetimus 05-10-2009 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dremd (Post 103354)
Fuel pickup wired up and *working*.
I was looking at the wrong connector . . . .

On to the VSS (G22 White and Blue)
http://gallery.me.com/dremd/100063/i...12419852130001

About to pull the instrument cluster

I searched through the tdiclub link you posted showing the Bentley schematics. I agree that the fuel consumption signal may be difficult to locate. I'm wondering if it might be on pin 11 shown on line 41 above. The reason I suspect this one is that I found this link (post #11) which provides the instrument cluster pinout.

Whoever posted this pinout listed pin 11 as 'vacant' which, according to sir Bentley, it isn't. But it is an unidentified signal from the ECM. I'll keep digging though the tdiclub archives as time permits, but that'd be my best guess at this point...

yetimus 05-10-2009 10:23 PM

Update: just found another possibility for fuel consumption signal. This thread (post #420) suggest fuel consumption, depending on model, is found on the green connector pin 32. Interestingly, something called "MAF #3" may be present on the blue connector pin 11 mentioned above.

dremd 05-10-2009 10:39 PM

Post referenced by Yetimus


Originally posted by MOGolf on tdiclub.com forums.

Quote:

Not knowing which Passat cluster (there are 3 AHU engine versions that I have info about) the possible pin-outs are...

Blue connector:
1-Terminal 15, positive
2-Turn signal right
3-Speedometer signal out
4-Warning Lamp Trailer towing
5-Fuel gauge
6-Airbag/ground w/o airbag/vacant
7-ground (sender circuit)
8-Coolant temperature
9-ground
10-Oil Pressure
11-Speedometer signal/MAF #3/vacant
12-Alternator warning
13-backrest lock/glow plug period warning/vacant
14-rear fog
15-vacant
16-open tailgate or boot/vacant
17-Warning lamp main beam (high beams)
18-Turn signal left
19-ABS
20-Illumination
21-Driver door open/vacant
22-vacant/coolant low
23-Terminal 30, positive
24-ground
25-K-wire
26-Parking light right
27-Parking light left
28-Speedometer signal in
29-Brake fluid level
30-S-contact
31-Seat belt warning
32-Emissions warning/vacant

Green Connector
1-vacant
2-Immobilizer read coil 1
3-vacant/warning lamp for side lights/vacant
4-CAN bus signal screening
5-W-wire
6-Washer fluid
7-brake pad wear
8-External buzzer/vacant/CAN-High for Conv. system and central locking
9-External gong/vacant/CAN-Low for Conv. system and central locking
10-Fuel reserve warning/vacant
11-Vehicle stationary signal
12-AC cutoff signal
13-Hand brake
14-Traction control
15-vacant
16-vacant
17-Immobilizer read coil 2
18-vacant/Oil temp and level
19-vacant/CAN high in
20-vacant/CAN low in
21-vacant
22-vacant/bonnet switch
23-MFA switch down
24-MFA switch up
25-MFA reset
26-Ambient air temperature
27-vacant/CAN high out
28-vacant/CAN low out
29-vacant/CAN shielding
30-speedometer out/vacant/Radio-Navigation clock
31-Selector lever display/vacant/Radio-Navigation data
32-Fuel consumption/vacant/Radio-Navigaion enable

If there is a 20 pin Red connector
1-4 vacant
5 Telematic Shield ground
6-11 vacant
12 Radio-Navigation clock
13 Radio-Navigation data
14 vacant
15 Radio-Navigaion enable
16-20 vacant

The 1Z is a different beast.

dcb 05-11-2009 05:18 AM

Is it possible that the view from the ECM would be more consistent than from the gauge end? According to this it is pin 9 for fuel?

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/5...8596839vc4.gif

yetimus 05-11-2009 07:07 AM

[QUOTE=dcb]Is it possible that the view from the ECM would be more consistent than from the gauge end? According to this it is pin 9 for fuel?

dcb-

The link you provided applies to 97-99.5 Jetta TDIs. One would need to verify that the same ECM pinout is applicable to dremd's '02. Perhaps someone out there with a Bentley manual could confirm?

dcb 05-11-2009 07:46 AM

Yup. Do you know if your 96 passat ecu plugs look like that? And if pin 9 is what is connected to the mpguino? (and which one is the vss?)

dremd 05-11-2009 09:26 AM

My plugs are very similar to the ones posted here; but I don't think identical.

FYI I am tapped at the ECU

dremd 05-13-2009 01:33 PM

Bad News guys; I went over to my buddies with the O-Scope and his probes were broken err. They will be replaced (by his employer) unfortunately I will not have access to them for about 3~4 weeks.

dcb 05-13-2009 01:41 PM

No prob. If you have an opportunity, would you be willing to try pin 9 on the ecu for the injector lead? A needle/sewing pin and an alligator clip should do nicely for a test.

If not no biggie.

yetimus 05-13-2009 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcb (Post 103458)
Yup. Do you know if your 96 passat ecu plugs look like that? And if pin 9 is what is connected to the mpguino? (and which one is the vss?)

Sorry for the delayed response. Yes, after checking the Bentley, the consumption signal is located on ECM pin 9 on my '96. The VSS, again according to Bentley, does not go to the ECM. It feeds through the firewall directly to the cluster - which is where I tapped it.

Not sure if my ECM plug is similar to the one you posted. FWIW, the schematic indicates a 68-pin plug on the ECM.

dremd 06-13-2009 04:54 PM

Just got word that the o-scope probes have arrived!
Should be able to use them in a few days.

rmccomiskie 06-15-2009 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcb (Post 103387)
I would suggest the following setup values for vw/audi(rest at default). Must get through all items to store.

VSS Pulses/Mile=13406
MicroSec/Gallon=0128800000
InjTrg 0-Dn 1-Up=1

FYI, the signal rmccomiskie and yetimus describe sounds like a wire from the ECU that should incroproate all the fuel variables into a basic duty cycle representation of fuel consumption for an onboard mpg gauge, that never gets installed in the states.

I just noticed this thread. VSS=13406 is dead on for my Audi. My speedometer has "K=6703" on the face of the speedo gauge. That's the number of pulses per mile. I doubled that to get 13406 since the MPGuino counts both rising and falling edges of each pulse.

Check the bottom front of your speedo face. See if it has "K=????". It could be hidden by the instrument bezel so poke around.

MicroSec/Gallon is most likely very different for your TDI. In order to get "in the ballpark", here's what I did:

1. From experience I know that I get about 21 MPG at 75 mph on level ground.

2. Calculate GPH: 75 mph/21 mpg = 3.57 GPH.

3. Set uSec/Gal to some number. I suppose 128800000 is as good as any.

4. Go for a drive at 75 MPH on level ground and watch the GPH reading on the MPGuino. If it's greater than 3.57 then increase the uSec/Gal number. If it's less, decrease the number.

The idea is to get close to the correct GPH at a speed where you know the MPG that you should be getting.

dcb 09-20-2009 02:28 PM

FYI, I just poked around my new 2001 tdi golf for a bit (as has dremd on his '02), I do not see any evidence that the ECU is creating a fuel consumption signal in post '99.05 vehicles. Will probably start trying to figure out what the deal is with the quantity adjuster signal(s) and maybe blend that with RPM.

tasdrouille 09-20-2009 04:10 PM

How about tapping the needle lift sensor on injector #3?

dcb 09-20-2009 04:23 PM

Yup, that's a thought too, similiar to the piezo tach sensor that diesel_john mentioned (though I haven't yet sorted out that signal yet).

I would like to know why the modulator (variable quantity adjuster) branches into two leads going into the ecu.

I need to understand more details on the various signals though, hopefully my picscope is up to it. Might as well get probing :)

I did get the instrument cluster out, was pretty trivial, so vss,batt/ground, and even rpm are easy to get to. But the ECU under that plastic thing was a royal pain, will probably work off the pump connectors and the cluster. Need to route kill switch leads through the firewall anyway (think I will leave the intake diverter valve out of it for now) :) This thing has a lot going on, that is for sure.

yetimus 09-23-2009 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcb (Post 128801)
FYI, I just poked around my new 2001 tdi golf for a bit (as has dremd on his '02), I do not see any evidence that the ECU is creating a fuel consumption signal in post '99.05 vehicles. Will probably start trying to figure out what the deal is with the quantity adjuster signal(s) and maybe blend that with RPM.

I don't own an MK4 TDI, but this link leads me to believe that some sort of fuel consumption signal does exist. Of course, the cluster pinout provided in that thread does not indicate a fuel consumption signal, but how else would the cluster retrofit be able to calculate fuel economy?

Actually, I just bought an 99 Audi A4. I'll check out the Bentley and see if it may indicate a fuel consumption signal on the ECU schematic. Mine has factory MFA. I imagine it would be very similar to the VW setup.

mikeross 02-25-2010 02:57 AM

I have seen the link and it makes me think that indeed the fuel consumption signal really exists. But that depends on the car's setup or configuration, right.. turn signal switch and all that?

dcb 02-25-2010 07:52 AM

the signal is not on the dash connector in US cars is my understanding, I couldn't decypher the ecu connector to see if maybe it actually was there.


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