Interested in purchasing first hybrid car!
 

Hi all,

As the title states I'm looking to buy my first hybrid car. Been doing research across different models, but what really landed me in the hybrid market was miles between fill-ups.

I drive an Xterra right now and during my ownership (2.5 years, 38k miles) it is averaging 16.5mpg. With a tank size of 21 gallons I'm able to get typically around 320 miles between fill-ups.

I'm drawn to the Hyundai Ioniq because it is a hatchback with the largest hybrid fuel tank (11.9 gallons) and a generous MPG. Even if I can only manage 53MPG (seems to be the real world average) I'm able to get 600 miles give or take per fill-up which sounds awesome.

All this to say, my question to this wonderful community is what recommendations as far as hybrids do you all have?

I'm looking for the following:

• Hatchback
• 600+ mile range (the more the better)
• Heated seats
• Android Auto support

I've looked into the Toyota and Honda offerings but they have smaller tanks, lower expected MPGs, typically more expensive trim to achieve the same features, or have less trunk space because they aren't hatchbacks.

If my conclusions are off base please correct me! I only know as much as what I've read.

Appreciate you reading this far and thank you again!
Anthony

The Ioniq is a sound choice if you want to buy new.
If the shape of it does not offend you, consider a second gen Insight which looks like the Ioniq stole its molds. Not as economical as the Ioniq but dirt cheap second hand and fairly reliable.
Avoid 2013 and early 2014s unless they had an engine/piston ring rebuild.

Me, I wish I had an EV. My next car will be an EV.

Do you have a garage to park in, or some access to a regular outlet to charge from? Are you looking to purchase new or used?

The Prius Prime qualifies for $4,502 in federal tax credit and has about a 30 mile EV range. That means less stops at the petrol station.

The RAV4 Prime is set to release this summer, and it has a 40 mile EV range and qualifies for the full $7,500 federal tax credit. It's supposed to get 40 MPG and the specs look very good.

https://s3-prod-canada.autonews.com/...AV4-MAIN_i.jpg

https://images.wheels.ca/wp-content/...1/IMG_4791.jpg

You'll be lucky to get 600 miles out of anything if you drive those Cincinnati hills on a regular basis! I don't miss driving there, especially in winter

The PHEV Ioniq kind of reminds me of my Volt. The site says it only does 29 electric miles before kicking in the ICE, but it's definitely cheaper out the gate than a Volt and has a longer overall range! It's pretty nice looking, but like the Volt it looks like the back seat is pretty small. I just lay down my back seats since I never have anybody in the back of mine, I can put a lot of stuff in the back since it's a hatch
The cars are pretty comparable, but if you have a sub-60 mile daily commute you can make it on EV only in a Volt, and still have over a 400 mile range if you need to go farther.

Ignore the 600 mile range and just go for overall efficiency- any jerk can make a car go 600 miles by putting in a big tank. Because of my small tank I plan on 400 miles and very short pit stops.

Was curious why overall range was an important criteria. My truck has a 35 gallon tank that can go up to 700 miles if driven carefully.

I regularly got 700 miles out of my plug-in Prius with its 10 gallon tank because I covered 30% of the miles with electricity.

I drove an Xterra for 8 months. It beats low-crawling to work, but only because it kept the rain off me. Any car at all will be like going to heaven.

I think my first 6 months of payments and gas on the Fit were within $200 of what gas alone in the Xterra would have been for the same miles. And any car at all is way more fun to drive than an SUV.

Some people don't like wasting time at the gas station. Here in Oregon where we aren't allowed to pump our own gas each trip is about 15 minutes wasted.

OP:

If you are buying new I would only look at PHEVs. Yes, they cost more but the EV tax credit almost always pays the difference. In some cases the PHEV is cheaper after the credit.

Personally I would get the Kia Niro over the Ioniq. The interior volume is the same but the Niro has a more useful box shape that allows large items and a flat roof to carry things on top. My biggest complaint about my Prius was the fastback hatch's lack of height. The room is worth the extra $1.50 a week in gas to me. The Niro and Ioniq are the same car under the skin.

The Prius Prime is another excellent candidate. 11.4 gallon tank x 54 mpg should give a 615 mile range not counting the electric miles. The Prius Prime is cheaper than the standard Prius after the tax credit.

Used I would strongly consider the Volt. Yes, it has a smaller tank but you will drive the first 50 miles every day on electricity which will greatly reduce trips to the gas station.

The 2nd generation Insight mentioned above is a nice car (based on the Fit platform with good aftermarket options) but it has an engine driven A/C compressor. That means in the summer the A/C turns off at every stop.

One important difference between the PHEV Ioniq and Volt or Prime--the Ioniq doesn't have a true EV mode:

Very true. The Hyundai and Kia use a single electric motor sandwiched between the engine and six speed automatic. It is basically a beefed up version of the old Honda hybrid system.

I don't know what the average is. My stops these days are under 5 minutes from nearly completely empty to full, including the detour off the road and back on. Costco runs can run 15 minutes though.

I do think EV home charging will reprogram people to despise refueling at petrol stations.

If your getting a gas hybrid consider the additional taxes title and registration.

You may be better off with a standard economy box or if your gonna pay the fee anyway get a PHEV.

$100 buys around 50 gallons of fuel and 3500 miles of driving in my Insight

https://www.limaohio.com/wire/state-...fect-next-week

I already despise refueling at places where I can't pump it myself. I spent a week in New Jersey this past summer and didn't gas up once while there, despite driving into the state, driving around Trenton and Princeton all week, and then driving back out. Same last time I was in Oregon in 2016--got on 84 south of Richland, WA, and drove straight through to Boise. I suppose now, most of the stops on that route you can pump your own gas.

That Ohio fee, like others, is some BS. If you drive a 20 mpg truck 15,000 miles/year, you'll end up paying $78 more in gas taxes with the $0.105 hike. If you drive a 50 mpg hybrid, you'll pay an extra $31 in addition to the $100 registration fee--nearly twice as much as the truck. That's not evening the playing field; it's penalizing drivers of fuel-efficient vehicles disproportionately.

Wow! Thank you all for the responses and so quickly too.

I had initially ruled out PHEVs but the more I think about it the choice makes sense. My commute is about 16 miles one way so I could leverage the EV portion for almost the entire day. If I can find a way to charge at the office it would certainly last me for the commute and perhaps even an errand or two.

I do road trip quite often (or drive a few hundred miles a day for work when I'm not in the office) which is why the extended range is a strong preference of mine.

Yes, a truck would certainly give me more range. My hope is to strike that balance between economy and fuel capacity. I was interested in the Accord until I realized they shrunk the tank size from 15.8 gallons to 12.8 gallons. It being a sedan notwithstanding.

I am interested in purchasing new which is what drew me to the Ioniq with its strong warranty (at least that is my perception). Driving it will be the real test! I did not realize the PHEV tax incentives were so strong and that is swaying me very strongly to consider the plug-in model.

I do have another question for you all:
What is the best way to measure the kWh into the car when I am charging it? I, like you all, am very interested in logging my efficiency and have been using Fuelly for almost 7 years (how time flies!) to track it. I know Fuelly isn't setup for EV/PHEV/dual-fuel but for the sake of information on my end I would like to know.

I'm familiar with data logging from an industrial stand point, but for something like this I'm not sure. I imagine keeping a kill-a-watt plugged in at home would suffice, but what about on the go? Or if I lose power at home and my kill-a-watt resets and all that data is lost?

Thanks all, I appreciate each and every one of your responses!
Anthony

You asked our opinion, which everyone is eager to give ;)

The federal tax credit is based on battery capacity. The smallest capacity that qualifies for the max credit of $7,500 is 16 kWh. Any vehicle with a smaller battery will have a lower credit amount. This is why I think targeting the 16 kWh size is smart, because the gov't pays you back $468.75 for each kWh of capacity, yet the cost to the manufacturer is somewhere around $125 per kWh. That allows a plug-in version to become cheaper than the non-hybrid after tax credits are factored in.

I used a kill-o-watt to measure my Prius electricity consumption, but it's only good for 120v and I installed an L2 and stopped measuring. Most cars will give a summary of how much electricity the battery took on, but that doesn't factor in charging losses. You could get a smart L2 charger that would log those things. I think there are versions of the Juice Box that do that. If 120v is ok, there are plenty of smart wifi switches that will log that data and they can be had for $10-$20.

I'd wait to see how the RAV4 Prime does when it comes out in the summer since it will be the latest and greatest, and has impressive stats for both performance and economy. Any of the other recommendations would be fine choices if you need something now. Personally I'd be targeting an EV range that can accomplish your round trip commute. It's within striking range of the Prius Prime and Ionic, should be easily doable in the RAV4 Prime, and certainly doable in the Volt.

I wouldn't focus so much on tank size. Hybrids need smaller tanks than the typical car for the same range. The Honda Accord Hybrid only has a 12.8 gallon tank but is rated at 48 mpg. That is a 614 mile range and within your requirement.

One thing to note about the tax credits is that they are not refundable. To get the full amount you must pay at least that amount of Federal Income Taxes in the year you purchase the vehicle. You cannot carry the credit over to following years. Everyone's taxes are different so that is something to check. I know people that were disappointed they didn't get the full credit. The current federal credits for PHEV hatchbacks are:

$4543 Ioniq PHEV
$4543 Kia Niro PHEV
$4502 Toyota Prius Prime

I just used a kill-a-watt when charging at home with the Level 1 charger that came with my car. At work we have Level 2 chargers with no way to collect data. In the end I decided to track the kWh usage shown by the car.

Thanks again all!

I'm squarely in the Ioniq PHEV camp now. Only down side is there isn't a single 2020 (or 2019) PHEV available to test drive! Closest I've found is nearly 400 miles away. I reached out to a local dealer so hopefully they can procure one. They've got a hybrid on the lot but I imagine comparing an HEV to a PHEV is not really apples to apples.

A couple more questions for you all:

• Is there a good resource for info on the included chargers with the Ioniq PHEV? The only info I've found is that the Level 1 charger is 120V, 12A, 15-5P style connector, and IP55 rated. Nothing about the Level 2 other than I assume it is 240V!
• How does the internal kWh readout on the dash function? Is it lifetime? Or can it be reset every time I fill-up so per-tank kWh usage is tracked?

The actual charger is internal to the car. The charger in the Ioniq is 3.3 kW and is the limiting factor.

The car will come with a Level 1 110V ICCB which is basically a fancy extension cord. 110V x 12A = 1.3 kW. It will take about 9 hours to charge your battery.

You can buy a 220v Level 2 home charger from a bunch of different suppliers. They range from 16 amp - 80 amp. The 32 amp charger on a 40 amp circuit seems to be the most popular. Since the internal charger on your Ioniq is only 3.3 kW even a 16 amp charger will max out your charge rate and charge your battery in 2 1/4 hours.

Most of the public Level 2 chargers you will find will be 7 kW because most EVs have a 6.6 kW internal charger.


The 2016 Spark EV I had also had a 3.3 kW charger. It worked fine for me as I could plug in when I got home and let the car charge overnight. Speed wasn't an issue. The kWh readout on my car could be reset and I reset it and recorded the average miles / kWh every 500 miles.

Thanks for the info!

I misspoke -- not charger, but charging cable. All documentation I've read points to the Ioniq coming with a Level 1 and a Level 2 charging cable. Beyond that there is very little information out there about the specifics.

IE: Plug-type, IP rating, etc.

Thanks again!

The 2 PHEV I like best are the Outlander and coming RAV4 Prime. I think the Outlander can make your daily commute, it think it's tax credit is $5836 range where the Rav4 I think will be the full amount that I thought was $7500.

Rav4 IS going to be a lot quicker and longer EV range, I think 10 more miles, better dealer support, closest Mit dealer to me is 75 miles.

Edit: EPA for the Outlander is only 22 miles EV, I've read reviews of them doing 30 miles. Rav4 Prime is EPA range is 39.

The USA ICCB is 120v / 12 amp with a SAE J1772 plug on the car end and a standard 3 prong on the socket end. That gives 1.4 kW. I don’t know about IP rating.

The EU ICCB is 220v / 10 amp For 2.4 kW

Do not expect to get a level 2 charger with the car in the USA.

Tahoe hybrid has a 24.5 gallon tank :D
modern one yes over all no..

This will do 600 miles, is pretty quick, has 4wd and more room than an xterra. Not all that efficient overall, but considering the power, size, and 4wd it's pretty good.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/

The best car ever is a 1996 - 2000 Honda Civic HX with a manual transmission. Just don't drive with a cracked radiator and use a torque wrench when putting a bolt in aluminum.

I'm gonna resurrect this thread to say thank you to everyone for helping with the decision!

I ended up going with a 2017 Honda Accord Hybrid w/ the Touring trim.

Found it locally for 21k out the door and it has been a dream. Averaging 50.5MPG according to Fuelly but it's really closer to 52 as a large portion was driving to and from West Virginia for our honeymoon which reduced the average down to 47.

The 15.8 gallon tank allowed me to get my first 800 mile tank too! It has a low-fuel cutoff just before 15 gallons because I ran out of gas thinking I had a gallon left. Grabbed a gas tank and recorded how much I put in the tank + canister and it was only 15 gallons

I've put almost 7k miles on it since early July!