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-   -   Interesting Aerodynamic Cars (Mike Vetter's ETV, also Avion) (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/interesting-aerodynamic-cars-mike-vetters-etv-also-avion-11732.html)

NeilBlanchard 01-06-2010 04:10 PM

Interesting Aerodynamic Cars (Mike Vetter's ETV, also Avion)
 
Hello,

Here's a car I have not seen before now: Mike Vetter's ETV (Extra-Terrestrial Vehicle):

The Car Factory-Featured on the Speed Channel's hit show show KIT: An Autobody Experience

http://www.kitanautobodyexperience.com/images/ETV14.jpg
http://www.kitanautobodyexperience.c...ome%20Page.jpg

Obviously, the lack of ground clearance would have to be addressed. And the rear end doesn't look as aero as it might seem at first.

And I saw some pictures of a car that has been mentioned before:
http://www.teamdochnoch.de/s9y/uploads/netz/avion.jpg
http://www.greentechgazette.com/images/avion.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...cher/avion.jpg

Frank Lee 01-06-2010 04:15 PM

Yeah- the front view looked promising... but then about 1/2 way back it all falls apart. :(

Christ 01-06-2010 04:23 PM

Better in reverse?

pstrbrc 01-06-2010 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christ (Post 152404)
Better in reverse?


Hot Dog!!!!

The New PINTO!!

cfg83 01-06-2010 05:18 PM

Frank -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Lee (Post 152400)
Yeah- the front view looked promising... but then about 1/2 way back it all falls apart. :(

I can't help but wish it would fit onto a VW chassis. I'm sure you could fix those scoops.

For ground clearance, I think this would be the ultimate justificaton for an air $u$pen$ion kit. Hmmmm, or maybe low-rider-grasshopper-hydraulics, because you'd need to rise FAST on the freeway when you see that truck tire tread about to smack you. Maybe link the suspension lift mechanism to how hard you apply the brakes.

Hrmmmm, here is their electric version in progress :

The Car Factory
http://www.kitanautobodyexperience.com/EETV5.jpg

...

Oooooooh, here's the Minority Report "Future Lexus" kit :

The Car Factory
http://www.kitanautobodyexperience.com/Dimensia11.jpg
Quote:

We are currently outfitting a 2006 Chevy Aveo platform with this new body
CarloSW2

aerohead 01-06-2010 05:56 PM

interesting
 
I don't know how they'd shake out in a wind tunnel,but the build quality sets a very high bar.Beautiful! Thanks.

jamesqf 01-06-2010 10:55 PM

I like the first two, except for a couple of details. First, WHY does almost every exotic/concept car have to have those effing stupid gull wing doors? Or don't they expect to be around long enough for the gas struts to fail, and give the driver a serious concussion?

Along the same lines, there's way too much glass. You're building CARS, guys, not solar ovens :-)

Christ 01-06-2010 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesqf (Post 152536)
I like the first two, except for a couple of details. First, WHY does almost every exotic/concept car have to have those effing stupid gull wing doors? Or don't they expect to be around long enough for the gas struts to fail, and give the driver a serious concussion?

Along the same lines, there's way too much glass. You're building CARS, guys, not solar ovens :-)

The doors can be excellently counterweighted to have a very decent lift, without the use of gas shocks.

Also, it's worth noting that those aren't gull-wing doors... I'm not technically sure they qualify as scissor doors, since they turn up and out.

Then again, I'm assuming you also have a problem with lift hatches and hoods that are supported by gas shocks as well?

I do agree with the glass comments, though. If I wanted an exorbitant set of windows in my car, I'd just drive my green house.

NeilBlanchard 01-20-2010 12:37 AM

Here is a VERY interesting model -- it is apparently an earlier concept of the Mercedes Bionic "Boxfish" car:

http://www.carbodydesign.com/concept...s-bionic/3.jpg

It has a Cd of 0.095, which is amazing!

Mercedes-Benz Bionic Car

And, I have never seen this "Antro Duo" before:

http://www.trendbird.co.kr/attach/1/1233405936.jpg
http://www.trendbird.co.kr/attach/1/1095015686.jpg
http://www.solo-duo.hu/Image/orr.jpg
http://www.solo-duo.hu/Image/folulnezet.jpg

Antro

The Solo (which has 3 seats, the Duo seats 6) weighs just 270kg / 596 pounds!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...oSolo-side.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...Solo-front.png

vtec-e 01-20-2010 05:41 AM

Truly fantastic cars.....at least in shape anyway! Car makers take note. This is what we want.

ollie

shovel 01-20-2010 11:43 AM

I think of the lot, the 2nd car (red "avion") looks the most practical... even if it does look a bit like a 1980's stab at 2015, that's not absolutely the worst thing either.

Enough with the lame flippy doors though, you know what I want? sliding doors like minivan 3rd doors are. Parking lot dings and difficulty entering/exiting the car in tight garages would suddenly be a thing of the past

Laurentiu 01-20-2010 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard (Post 155404)

It has a Cd of 0.095, which is amazing!

Small correction..The 0.095 was achieved only by the clay model in the wind tunnel..The real life prototype achieved a more "Earthy" 0.19 :turtle:

rkcarguy 01-20-2010 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard (Post 152398)
Hello,

Here's a car I have not seen before now: Mike Vetter's ETV (Extra-Terrestrial Vehicle):

The Car Factory-Featured on the Speed Channel's hit show show KIT: An Autobody Experience

http://www.kitanautobodyexperience.com/images/ETV14.jpg
http://www.kitanautobodyexperience.c...ome%20Page.jpg

Obviously, the lack of ground clearance would have to be addressed. And the rear end doesn't look as aero as it might seem at first.

And I saw some pictures of a car that has been mentioned before:
http://www.teamdochnoch.de/s9y/uploads/netz/avion.jpg
http://www.greentechgazette.com/images/avion.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...cher/avion.jpg

The avion is from my hometown, saw it in person over the weekend-pretty neat looking.

Laurentiu 01-20-2010 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkcarguy (Post 155507)
The avion is from my hometown, saw it in person over the weekend-pretty neat looking.

Very impressive looking car, kinda reminds me of the Jag E Type for some reason..like a futuristic version of that :)

Would've looked even better IMHO with a different styling , integration of the headlights in the flowing shape of the bonnet (kinda like the EV1 but even better :P)...:thumbup:

rkcarguy 01-20-2010 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurentiu (Post 155517)
Very impressive looking car, kinda reminds me of the Jag E Type for some reason..like a futuristic version of that :)

Would've looked even better IMHO with a different styling , integration of the headlights in the flowing shape of the bonnet (kinda like the EV1 but even better :P)...:thumbup:

I agree. Integrate the headlights under clear lenses at the front of the body(24" minimum height problem?), fill in the clear area in the back with body and recess in round tailights. Lastly, get that thing down. Gotta be some more MPG to be had if that had about 1/2 the ride height it does.

winkosmosis 01-20-2010 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkcarguy (Post 155523)
I agree. Integrate the headlights under clear lenses at the front of the body(24" minimum height problem?), fill in the clear area in the back with body and recess in round tailights. Lastly, get that thing down. Gotta be some more MPG to be had if that had about 1/2 the ride height it does.

It looks like it depends on the ground clearance to funnel air below it. If it was lower, that air would be compressed more and sap power. It's like a more normal Aptera

cfg83 01-20-2010 07:58 PM

winkosmosis -

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkosmosis (Post 155546)
It looks like it depends on the ground clearance to funnel air below it. If it was lower, that air would be compressed more and sap power. It's like a more normal Aptera

That's what I was thinking.

I really like the rear taillight enclosure :

http://www.100mpgplus.com/images/Car_Road-1.jpg

Just encapsulate standard-issue 1980's taillights. He'll probably needs some side lighting.

CarloSW2

Christ 01-20-2010 08:17 PM

I don't think that tail light enclosure would be legal here...

The tail lights also act as clearance lights in most cases,

and the enclosure wouldn't allow the full viewing angle of the lights as they were designed.

cfg83 01-20-2010 08:27 PM

Christ -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christ (Post 155581)
I don't think that tail light enclosure would be legal here...

The tail lights also act as clearance lights in most cases,

and the enclosure wouldn't allow the full viewing angle of the lights as they were designed.

What if they increased the clear "window" for more angles? Or would that lead to refraction problems?!?! ... I still like it from an execution/solution POV.

CarloSW2

alohaspirit 01-20-2010 08:30 PM

theyre both great

the avion looks more affordable but theres a definite cool factor with the other one


reminds me of

http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto...-main_Full.jpg

Christ 01-20-2010 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfg83 (Post 155583)
Christ -



What if they increased the clear "window" for more angles? Or would that lead to refraction problems?!?! ... I still like it from an execution/solution POV.

CarloSW2

I think it might work, refraction isn't really an issue, since the lenses are refractory anyway. DOT might still have an issue with the light lenses not being with X of the vehicle's absolute rear, though.

NeilBlanchard 01-21-2010 01:06 AM

Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurentiu (Post 155503)
Small correction..The 0.095 was achieved only by the clay model in the wind tunnel..The real life prototype achieved a more "Earthy" 0.19 :turtle:

Yes, I know -- they also changed the form quite a bit. An earlier clay model (w/o wheels IIRC) was 0.06. This model had wheels at least, and since it is so very low drag, I think it is worthwhile to study.

Here's another picture of the Antro 'Solo':

http://www.solo-duo.hu/data/picture_...0013/pic68.jpg

Christ 01-21-2010 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard (Post 155671)
Hi,



Yes, I know -- they also changed the form quite a bit. An earlier clay model (w/o wheels IIRC) was 0.06. This model had wheels at least, and since it is so very low drag, I think it is worthwhile to study.

Here's another picture of the Antro 'Solo':

http://www.solo-duo.hu/data/picture_...0013/pic68.jpg

Neil -

I'd rock it.

NeilBlanchard 01-21-2010 01:13 AM

My problem with the Avion is the giant door sills and the relatively tiny seating area. The video I saw of it a year ago showed how cramped it is.

I think it uses a Smart diesel?

Piwoslaw 01-21-2010 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard (Post 155671)
Here's another picture of the Antro 'Solo':

Another sleek greenhouse on wheels. And the side mirror looks tiny. Or is it a camera?

Christ 01-21-2010 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piwoslaw (Post 155689)
Another sleek greenhouse on wheels. And the side mirror looks tiny. Or is it a camera?

They're cameras, best I can tell.

NeilBlanchard 01-28-2010 10:42 AM

Antro Solo is an electric/diesel/solar/pedal hybrid!
 
I just found out that the Antro Solo is an electric/diesel/solar/pedal hybrid! That is a new angle, as far as I know...

Edit: Yes, the diesel, solar, and humans pedaling, all generate electricity to charge the battery. Oh, and this car gets 117-157mpg US -- it's a serial hybrid.

Christ 01-28-2010 10:44 AM

Jeezis... that's alot of propulsion/energy extraction techniques. I'm assuming the pedals don't directly drive the vehicle, though, rather creating a charge for the e-power, as I assume the diesel and solar do as well.

IOW - it's probably e-drive, but with those other methods used to keep the battery charged/topped off while in use.

alohaspirit 01-28-2010 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Tele man (Post 157379)
...where's the "squirrel-in-cage" backup propulsion?



not really propulsion, he just runs the generator

RobertSmalls 01-28-2010 07:21 PM

If I were going to build a car from scratch, it would be in the style of the Daihatsu UFE III (2005 Concept):

http://image.automobilemag.com/f/667..._side_view.jpg

203mpg, 968lb curb weight in concept car form, Cd = 0.17, tiny frontal area. It's a 660cc gas/electric hybrid.

Daihatsu UFE-III Concept - Automobile Magazine

Christ 01-29-2010 12:45 AM

That reminds me of a manta ray's mouth... long thin slit, with whiskers hanging at either side.

shovel 01-29-2010 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls (Post 157500)
If I were going to build a car from scratch, it would be in the style of the Daihatsu UFE III (2005 Concept):


Daihatsu UFE-III Concept - Automobile Magazine

would it absolutely kill them to put a little bit of a roof on these effin' concepts? everyone who wants to design cars for a living needs to spend a summer in Arizona and a winter in Michigan before they can pretend they know how to engineer anything on wheels. :rolleyes: :cool:

Frank Lee 01-29-2010 01:56 AM

My faves are when city-boy designers that have never so much as lifted a bale of hay in their whole lives design "urban" pickup trucks. :rolleyes:

Piwoslaw 01-29-2010 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shovel (Post 157548)
would it absolutely kill them to put a little bit of a roof on these effin' concepts? everyone who wants to design cars for a living needs to spend a summer in Arizona and a winter in Michigan before they can pretend they know how to engineer anything on wheels. :rolleyes: :cool:

VW put a roof on the redesigned 1L prototype.
VW 1L:
http://www.alanbrand.com/wordpress/w...8/07/vw_il.jpg

VW L1:
http://www.tuvie.com/wp-content/uplo...r-concept7.jpg

NeilBlanchard 01-29-2010 09:40 AM

The biggest problem I have with that Daihatsu is the entire top and sides of the middle lift up as the entry door -- and this must have a huge structural penalty. The only bit connecting the front to the back is the floor ... which is just terrible design, IMO.

shovel 01-29-2010 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piwoslaw (Post 157571)

hahah people in Germany probably at least have an uncle or grandpa who once owned a Messerschmitt KR175 , who would klopf 'em upside the head any time they were trying to draw a glass canopy without a roof or vents.

Jyden 01-31-2010 05:28 PM

Alfa Bats
 
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....-romeo-bat.jpg

Cd 0.23

"Between 1953 and 1955, Alfa Romeo and design house Bertone created a trio of aerodynamic design concepts dubbed Berlinetta Aerodinamica Tecnica or B.A.T.
The B.A.T. cars were an exploration of aerodynamic ideas in the post World War 2 era as the jet age was just beginning. With the goal of achieving the lowest possible drag coefficient, they got as low as 0.19 and managed speeds up to 125 mph from only 90 horsepower.
""

Cd 0.19
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...omeo_BAT_7.jpg

We are stille way behind. All that knowledge has been forgotten with cheap oil.

Christ 01-31-2010 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard (Post 157589)
The biggest problem I have with that Daihatsu is the entire top and sides of the middle lift up as the entry door -- and this must have a huge structural penalty. The only bit connecting the front to the back is the floor ... which is just terrible design, IMO.

It's essentially the same structural design as a convertible.

And the whole door structure is probably part of the stressed chassis when closed.

Christ 01-31-2010 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jyden (Post 158060)
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....-romeo-bat.jpg

Cd 0.23

"Between 1953 and 1955, Alfa Romeo and design house Bertone created a trio of aerodynamic design concepts dubbed Berlinetta Aerodinamica Tecnica or B.A.T.
The B.A.T. cars were an exploration of aerodynamic ideas in the post World War 2 era as the jet age was just beginning. With the goal of achieving the lowest possible drag coefficient, they got as low as 0.19 and managed speeds up to 125 mph from only 90 horsepower.
""

Cd 0.19
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...omeo_BAT_7.jpg

We are stille way behind. All that knowledge has been forgotten with cheap oil.

I got up to 125MPH with 90 HP in my Honda Civic. Granted, I was on a highway going in the same direction as traffic, taking advantage of the tunnel effect, and it took forever to get there, but that's not the point. I'm not sure we're really that far behind, if you consider that a goal.

Jyden 01-31-2010 05:46 PM

Well - us beeing here - the existance of this forum is a statement of that the carindustry as a whole had fallen behind, with regards to areodynamics and fuelconsumption....

Is'ent it?


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