Interesting Ideas for the future
 

DIMS -

From page 2 :

What would the additive be?

CarloSW2

55% efficiency?

Exceeding Carnot efficiency?

Color me skeptical.

Idea's for the future? catch up with the past first (376mpg)
 

Way back in 1973 it was possible to get 376mpg. That
was in the guiness book of records from back then.

Some experimenters were able to get 200+ mpg back
then.

That was before aircon, automatic door locks, airbags
and efi.

Anyway, we all know it's not easy to get any dramatic
increases without dramatic enhancements.

Just google "376 mpg" and see what comes up.

It's interesting reading and it would be lovely to see
this on a nearby car in the near future.

Ha Ha, we know what comes up with "376 mpg". :rolleyes:

In layman's terms, that would be "a hoax".

The car is apparently now for sale in the United States. Previous
owners posted this note on the internet.

BEWARE!!!!
It has come to our attention that this vehicle
is now being offered for sale,
with a CLAIM THAT IT IS ROADWORTHY
This vehicle is designed to get good fuel
economy using a tiny Tillotson lawnmower
carburetor, and does not have power to climb
a grade, or run in stop and go traffic.

Although a nice piece of History, this single
seat car with NO suspension will not satisfy
your commuting needs....nor is there any great
secret that will help you get miraculous fuel
mileage.

--

from the promotional videos and internet photo's
that I've seen all the above caveats seem
appropriate.

376mpg yes, but only on a flat track and 0-50mph
in quite a long time..

Anyway, its not my car, I'm not selling it. There's
no hoax that the car is up for sale.

Argonne Labs is working on a combination of individual improvements with the goal of 60%+ efficiency.

Non reciprocating designs
Variable compression
The TSI design allows 80to1 mixture ratios and no after treatment

Also power train improvements that incorporate hypermiling driving techniques in the vehicle itself.

regards
Mech

Enjoy!

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...past-9397.html

How are they claiming 60% efficiency?

If you know jack about the second law of thermodynamics, you are familar with the theoretical Carnot cycle. It is the most efficency possible engine until somebody disproves the Second Law. The max efficiency on the Carnot cycle is 50%.

Anything beyond 50% is a scam.

2502 Miles 299MPG in a Prius II PHEV! - CleanMPG Forums
299MPG on ordinary roads in a street-legal car capable of highway speeds. Just use modern technology.

Green Hummer Project: Home
Infinite MPG with ancient technology, but it only goes 15MPH.

Turbocharged ship diesels are getting over 50%, and compound generators have hit 60% without changing Carnot's equation. Still, I take most such claims with a block of salt.

unlocking the secrets of 376mpg..
 

Thanks guys for finding the links to that car.. ;)

I'm only a curious observer, watching and trying to learn.

Let me share the beer talk me and my friends have about
it. I don't know if I'm correct. Just speculation.

Well first, its a vapour system. The coils heat the fuel
but only fuel vapours go into the engine.

The carburator, we think, was only used to get the engine
up to speed. Once up to speed, the vehicle would just run
on vapor to maintain speed.

Here's some interesting speculation. They put the
motor in an insulated box to stop heat from escaping.

The actual engine ran much cooler than what we
see in our day to day commuting machines. We
think the engineers knew that if you lose heat then
you lose efficiency.

That's why rather than shedding unwanted heat by disposal
of it in the heat wastebin (radiator) these engines had no
such wastebin. They instead tried to preserve every piece
of heat they had and not any escape.

Vapour technology is interesting. I can't claim to be an
expert in it.

Now, that motor had no twin cams and was OHV. No VVTI,
or any of the things the brochures say we need today.

Of course, in reality it may have been on 30hp or less.

But it raises some very interesting questions.

David

Gasoline vapour will disperse into air faster than liquid, but that is not usually a big advantage, and might have defeated a CVCC lean-burn arrangement. "Running on fumes" is just a humorous exaggeration of using up the last of a tank.
Smokey Yunick tried hard to build adiabatic engines, but the materials and lubricants both broke down quickly. He had the best in the world, much better than those previously available. We still need cooling systems in addition to the exhaust to keep an engine healthy and prevent pre-ignition.

True, lubrication and cooling changes for vapor are neccessary
 

thats right.

The 376 mpg demo is interesting. I don't know of
other vapor conversions but I know many don't end
well.

My understanding of all the failures with implementations
of vapour injection is that the engine overheats because
there is no combustion chamber cooling system.

The 1900's might have the answer to that one and
what they did back then was use water injection instead
of liquid fuel to control the temperature in the combustion
chamber.

I'm very sure that water-injection can replace the
cooling ability of liquid fuel and control cylinder temperatures.

I personally do not care if I am using more water in my
car than petrol.

I'm thinking that maybe vapour might be good for idling
and coasting, and then if I need power, then allow the
fuel injectors to spray only when and if I actually need
some power.

Temperature control is vital. Actually the car I am using
has uses too much fuel and gets too hot. So all of this
thinking just comes with trying to fix the current problems

I want my car to run at 60% of its current temperature.

That's my goal. I'm told it will be more efficient.

not idling would be better yet.

What about engines that use cams in place of the crankshaft? Or, have some other format to covert the fuel to mechanical motion that is more efficient than the sinusoidal motion of a crankshaft?

Swashplate motors get away from the limitations of a crankshaft, but they are relatively high-friction mechanisms. Hard to lubricate.

You're going to change your view on this in few years.

normal running on vapor..
 

Sure. One step at a time. I'm just a vapor hackmason..

What about cams like the Revtec?

http://www.youtube.com/user/Ride122609

Running off compressed air, first operational prototype.

regards
Mech

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
 

Handling gasoline in its vapour phase only changes its volume, not its BTU potential. Maximum efficiency comes with maximum combustion temperature. Some air-cooled engines were notorious for being run rich to keep from melting themselves, but now, we reduce peak temperatures and efficiency to avoid turning the nitrogen into pollution by recirculating some exhaust gas.

The improvement in gasoline engines has been mostly about widening the range of conditions where they approach maximum efficiency. EFI got the mixtures right, and variable valve timing extends the efficient RPM range. Variable compression can extend the range of efficient throttle openings. Lean burning tricks are an advance. Some energy can be recovered by replacing the throttle plate with a wind turbine.
Compressed air is the most dangerous "fuel" to store, because it does not have to mix with oxygen to release all its energy - it is like a high explosive. It also gives less range than even lead-acid batteries, and needs huge heat exchangers between multiple expansion stages for decent efficiency.