Interesting look at pop-up light and other bits on my car
 

Today I went out to wash all the tree pollen off the car, and decided to look at certain aspects in the car by spraying the water over it, and have my brother take pics.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...irdaero020.jpg

Things studied:
Pop-up head lights
The air dam around the tires, with and with out it.
Side mirrors

lights up 1st:
With them down:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...d/IMG_6087.jpg
Up:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...d/IMG_6085.jpg

Striking difference. In person you can see the wave-effect it causes behind the light.

Next up is the stock air dam. 270,000 miles later, the passenger side of the air damn is missing, so this created an opportunity to see the effects of it:
The air dam itself:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...irdaero039.jpg

Driverside, air dam intact:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...d/IMG_6075.jpg
You can see the water creates a clear and fairly smooth path around the tire.

Passenger side, no air dam:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...d/IMG_6077.jpg
(ignoring the sidewall of my tires.. getting new ones soon), it's obvious to see that the water hits straight on with blunt force. Going to fab up a replacement air damn soon.

The side mirror:

GM's Bullet shaped mirrors of the 70s, 80s and 90s are certainly cool looking.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...irdaero022.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...d/IMG_6091.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...d/IMG_6090.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...d/IMG_6088.jpg
In person there is a wave-effect in the wake of the mirror, and in the pics you can see the mirror mounting arm also has a large effect. But over all, IMO not too obstructive compared to larger mirrors today. When shooting the water at the edge of the windshield, it flows around the mirror quite well, being that they are tucked in close to the car.

Anyhoo, just some interesting stuff to look at. And some purty pictures. :p

Neat tests. I wonder if there's a mod to depopup the lights so that they're still useable.

Gonna ask some friends of mine that own the Nissan 240sx what size their popup headlights are. I know there are many aftermarket flush mount kits for them.
http://membres.lycos.fr/loonyq3/3big.jpg
Though that's an old RX7, the 240s have a similar shaped one to my car.

I'm not fond of the skinny grandprix lights I've seen on other car, and the stock ones. Not bright enough IMO, these are weak enough as is.

edit:
Found some of a 240sx here:
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/8...version2ps.jpg
The grey area on the lense is custom painted, It's a tuner thing I guess...

Too expensive for me, but it's an interesting idea for others with pop-up lights.

FWIW; It's spelled 'air dam' ;)
You just offended my 12 yr olds' tender sensibilities...:D

I've been contemplating what to do with my pop up lights on my Accord as well.

Whoah, that was on accident. lol, wasn't paying attention when writing this (docter said I had ADD or something, I don't remember, wasn't paying attention).

Fixed.

But anyhoo, another guy just welded his pop-ups shut and then used the older GrandPrix lights in place. Being that you have a Honda, and we all know how large the aftermarket is for them (some times a bad thing), see if any fixed headlights are available for your car.

Whoever thought of using water as a testing method is pretty clever !
The picture with the headlights up looks just like what you would see in a windtunnel.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3277/...bf2386e232.jpg


I've always wanted to see what the underside of a T/A looks like. Thanks !

Can we see some more shots of how the air damn ... dam is set up ? It appears as if there is not a real 'scoop' there, but rather a flat panel that the air smacks into and gets pushed into the radiator. Can we see where the radiator is in reference to the air dam ?

Also, thanks for setting the white balance on your camera so that we could see the details in the dark areas. ( Or did you edit them in PhotoShop ? ).

I really love the look of those wheels, but I think they are hurting your fuel economy.
Not only are the recessed inwards to catch more air, but they also appear to be bent.

When was the last time that you had a wheel alignment ?


Off topic here : Here is a link to that Gale Banks T/A that we spoke about earlier. : http://www.gtasourcepage.com/galebanksturbogta.html

Thanks, I noticed this when I was a kid with a spray bottle and a hot wheels car that it acted much like a wind tunnel... Garden hose any a car later this is what I've got. :D

I'll jack the front up tomorrow and get pics. But, with out that air damn, these things will over heat in a snap, some of the larger GM cars of the 70s/80s are notorious for this. My dad's '79 EL Camino took a major hit on cooling when he took off it's lower airdam/chin spoiler to clear a rough road.

I'm going to grab a set of those snap on moon wheel covers, like the gale bank's T/A. The rim lips were curbed, and a tad bent by my Aunt, so, ain't my fault lol. But there's no changing the stance on the car, even a stock set of wheels have the same off set out side the fenders. And there isn't room to put on a wheel/tire combo with less off-set on these cars.

Buts it's the effect of the picture. The Toe and alignment on this car is good, but the body shape does make it apear that each wheel truns out a bit when shot individually. I noticed that too when editing the pics.

Very cool. What you are seeing with the are dams just in front of the tires is what are know in the industry as "Tire Kickers" which push the air down around the tires. The front air dam does a lot of the same so that you don't have air flow over the underbody which has a lot of anti-aero crap (suspension and exhaust bits)

If you have a belly pan, the lower air dam would get a lot smaller.

Spoilers bad!
 

BTW, noticed you have a spoiler. Most spoilers are cosmetic. Those that aren't cosmetic typically help reduce aero lift (Audi TT is prime example where lift at speed makes it unsafe, they actually had a recall to install spoilers)

Either way, this means more drag. Based on where it is on the Camaro, I'd suggest you could improve your aero by removing it, though there will likely be bolt holes left when you do.......

The main goal for the airdam on this car is for the radiator at speed, and of course like you said keeping air off the chassis.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...Picture001.jpg

Here's the underbody shot showing the radator and the air dam. Looking for something to replace the "tire kicker" on the passenger side. I did a good bit of work yesterday fixing all the stuff on that bumper. The two covers next to the radiator opening were hanging down some (jsut missing screws) and the driver's side tirekicker was damaged where it mounts to the bumper, scrap-age lol.. So fixed all that and screwed the panesl back up.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...irdaero033.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...irdaero034.jpg
I'll need a heat gun to soften the plastic and shape it flat again..
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...irdaero035.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...irdaero036.jpg

I'll dig around and see if I can find some lexan to cover the broken fog light lenses.
Aerohead, in one of his installment threads he had said that the rear wing was tested to help smooth the air flow off the back. Was on the 84 T/A if I recall right, and the 84 has the same wing as this Firebird.

But never-the-less, it wasn't so gas hungry yesterday. I'll have to ask my dad what the mileage as yesterday, but drove over to his work and we fixed the a/c (now I can keep the windows up, TX heat is crazy), and it was roughly a 35-40 mile round trip. I was fully expecting to waste over an 1/8th a tank on it. Kept driving habits in check and it managed to only suck a bit over 1/16 of a tank, 10 minutes of stop-n-go traffic included.

Not too bad, typically a 30 mile trip cost me 1/8th a tank

Airdam and tongues
 

Airdams (and the flexible flaps you see hanging down on some vehicles) do help the radiator but primarily when you are stopped.

The worst case for cooling is typically when you stop at a stoplight or pull into a drive through. The air coming out of the radiator bounces off the engine and ground and gets sucked back into the front of the radiator (recirc / stagnation).

This can have the effect of raising the rad intake air temp by 60 degrees or more!

When you are at speed your radiator almost always sees ambient air temp so even though your engine is pumping out more heat, air dams don't really change the equation.

Maybe on a typical car with a typical nose (with a grille there). Ask any F-Body owner that knows well about their car, and ask them to take off the air dam and drive the car around at speed. Most will refuse. Or ask one who has had their's accidently ripped off on a rough road or something.. I can have the folks over at Thirdgen.org back me up on this as well. My air damn is bent back from 18 years, 270,000 miles of driving and drive-ways, but stock they stick straight down to an effect..

I'm not trying to start an argument over the basics of an air dam, but on these cars and in my experience and other F-Body owners I've talked to; they rely on the air dam to push air into the radiator, or they over heat.

You would certainly know more about how this works on an F-Body than I would - I was making more of a general statement based on my professional experience, and for every rule there are always exceptions....I hope my posting didn't appear too dogmatic or declarative (I think I said they do help but primarily when stationary)

I just took a closer look at your pictures - no front end opening makes your vehicle a "bottom breather" so yes, the flap will be helpful at speed, which I believe was exactly your point.

It's allright, no harm done. I'll take professional input when ever I can.

I wonder if Z06-style flaps infront of the tires could help divert air over them. I can't remember if they were for down force or to move air around those fat tires..

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1215629808

My guess is they serve the same purposed as the kickers- flow would re-attach after the wheel well. I don't think this would do much for down force although ou never know. If you take it to an extreme (make it 3x bigger and attach to a front end splitter) then it would probably help with front end down force.

My experience is that there is a lot of "art" to aerodynamics - there's a lot you can't tell unless you're in the tunnel.

One the Z06 it's connected to the front splitter/chin spoiler. If I remember right when Topgear did their review (it's a fun to watch episode too), he mentioned they were to aid in downforce.

But, not the case in my car, but I did give it a shot. The tires stick out a good amount on the car stock. So I did another ghetto'd test. I set the garage fan on the floor, with a mister infront of it to blow over the side of the fender and into the tire (not low enough to blow around the air dam or much of the bumper.. but good enough for what I was looking for). The mister was just to visulize the air movement, and also it had the effect of making the tire wet were it was hitting on the leading edge.

The setup:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...Picture008.jpg

1st test, stock:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...Picture006.jpg

On the, the dark area is where the water (and thus, air) were mainly hitting. It's a good 1/3~ of the tire. Also when I stuck my hand into the wheel well, you can feel the air being blown up into the front of the wheel well and blowing around inside (turbulance?)

So I used a magazine, and duct taped it to the inside of the wheel well:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...Picture010.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...Picture011.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...Picture013.jpg

So I jacked up the car, and spun the tire around to the other side to keep everything in the same place, and started the 2nd test

2nd test, flare:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...Picture014.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...Picture016.jpg

Here, you can see with the flare, much, much less of the tire was hit with the water/air. And also when I stuck my hand into the wheel well, there was no air tubulance inside. Came to my surprise, so I took the flare off and stuck my hand in only to feel it windy in there again.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3.../Untitled1.jpg

:thumbup: Opinions?

I'm looking at subtle mods to the car to make it better. I wonder how much of a difference it would make on all 4 corners, on top of having the moon-dish wheel covers (which I do think look cool).

Lovin' the ghetto aero tests :thumbup:

It is subtle, but it does seem to help and at highway speeds it should block more of the tire. Some chopped up cheap mudflap and you're good to go!

Awesome on-the-fly tests! Cheap and effective for quick spotting and analysis.