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-   -   Interior Side Veiw Mirrors?? (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/interior-side-veiw-mirrors-22439.html)

ryan5895 07-01-2012 09:14 PM

Interior Side Veiw Mirrors??
 
I have a 99 honda civic LX. Great car, only problem: THE SIDE VIEW MIRRORS ARE HUGE! I'm wondering if anyone has tried to put their side view mirrors on the inside?? I must say, I got the idea from looking at aerocivic..its not original:/
But forreal, if anyone has a link to premade ones that I wouldnt have to spend days fabricating that would be great! Otherwise, if you have one, direct me to a link for smallish mirrors I could use for such a purpose:)

3n3rgystar 07-01-2012 09:49 PM

I tried putting mine on the inside which did not work well I could never get the correct angle in my car, yours maybe different though. But what did work is I got a blind spot mirror and mounted it on my rear-view mirror and then I was able to see around the entire back of the car with just one glance at that mirror, again my car had lots of side windows which helped also. They are cheap so worth a try in your situation and I suggest carefully testing parked with some bikes or helpers to see that you can see correctly.

ryan5895 07-01-2012 11:05 PM

The blind spot mirror is an interesting idea! I'll have to try that one!
My car has pretty good visibility and I ALWAYS look behind the car when I backup, the only time I really use the mirrors is to avoid running over peoples grass..

What did you use to cover the exposed area on the outside? I was thinking of just cutting a peice of wood to the shape and sealing it well. Possibly covering it with some 3M carbon fiber wrap so it would have a decent look to it..

NeilBlanchard 07-01-2012 11:19 PM

Yes, this has been done by several folks here on EM, and they often end up with a convex mirror which gives a better angle, but has the disadvantage of distorting the view, making objects look farther away than they actually are.

ryan5895 07-01-2012 11:24 PM

How much of a reduction in drag might I be looking at here? Basically, would it be worth it to do it?

Flakbadger 07-01-2012 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan5895 (Post 314783)
How much of a reduction in drag might I be looking at here? Basically, would it be worth it to do it?

If you search, you can see the percentages people have found. I believe MetroMPG has some really good numbers on there.
I personally refuse to delete my mirrors. I use them all the time, and while it's possible to get by without them, every moment your head is turned completely around is another moment your peripheral vision can't see what's in front of your car. Who knows what split-second change might happen ahead of you when you're not looking.
That being said, I would appreciate it if my car's mirrors were quite a bit smaller. I feel like many cars have unnecessarily large ones.. so smaller external mirrors might be a possibility too.

JackMcCornack 07-02-2012 12:37 AM

I'm going to try making my cabin with a clear shot (clear as in, not opaque and not getting my shoulder in the way) from the inside side mirror to straight back. Since we have to look through a sheet of something anyway (light path from behind the car, bounced off the mirror, through the side window, to the eye) I'm hoping I won't lose clarity by changing the order some (from behind the car, through the side window, bounced off the mirror, to the eye).

SentraSE-R 07-02-2012 04:00 AM

OP, see this thread.

3n3rgystar 07-02-2012 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan5895 (Post 314780)
The blind spot mirror is an interesting idea! I'll have to try that one!
My car has pretty good visibility and I ALWAYS look behind the car when I backup, the only time I really use the mirrors is to avoid running over peoples grass..

What did you use to cover the exposed area on the outside? I was thinking of just cutting a peice of wood to the shape and sealing it well. Possibly covering it with some 3M carbon fiber wrap so it would have a decent look to it..

I used bondo sanded it and painted over it with a can of black to match the rest of the trim. But the carbon fiber would look cool I think.

vrmilionzx 07-02-2012 12:47 PM

They're overpriced, but i've considered something like this (ST Machine Pig Spotters), mounted to the existing mirror spots. I'm currently considering a project using some spare side mirror as "organ donors" to make smaller profile mirrors...that still work.

Sven7 07-02-2012 01:41 PM

I generally don't trust any of my mirrors because my summer daily (81 VW convertible) has giant blind spots when the top is down, which is basically all the time.

For the Probe I got a $4 convex bicycle mirror from Target and stuck it to the interior rear view. It worked fine until the adhesive let go. I plan on getting full width race mirrors for both cars. On the outside I carefully taped over it with black duct tape, from the bottom first, working upward so water doesn't get in. It looks fine from a few feet away and most people don't even notice it.

aerohead 07-02-2012 05:30 PM

how much
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan5895 (Post 314783)
How much of a reduction in drag might I be looking at here? Basically, would it be worth it to do it?

I have only one article which deals specifically with side mirrors.And I don't have it with me.It's from HOT ROD Magazine from the early 1960s and they are referring to data supplied from Ford Motor Co.
If memory serves me,they said that removing a side-view mirror would save 3 cents over 100 miles of driving (at a time when gasoline was 25-cents/gallon).
I'll dig out the article and verify the numbers.I no longer trust my memory.

Vman455 07-02-2012 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentraSE-R (Post 314813)
OP, see this thread.

I used these same mirrors, from Autozone for $5 or so. I found they sagged after a while, so I epoxied the mount where it swivels at its base, but otherwise they're fantastic. If your stock mirrors were adjusted correctly (i.e. aimed at your blind spot, not the back of the car) you should find it quite easy to transition to the interior mirrors. It's pretty easy to aim them so you see 95% what you did with the stock mirrors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3n3rgystar (Post 314833)
I used bondo sanded it and painted over it with a can of black to match the rest of the trim. But the carbon fiber would look cool I think.

I did it this way, too. See this thread.

Sven7 07-03-2012 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerohead (Post 314911)
I have only one article which deals specifically with side mirrors.And I don't have it with me.It's from HOT ROD Magazine from the early 1960s and they are referring to data supplied from Ford Motor Co.
If memory serves me,they said that removing a side-view mirror would save 3 cents over 100 miles of driving (at a time when gasoline was 25-cents/gallon).
I'll dig out the article and verify the numbers.I no longer trust my memory.

Mirror design has come a long way in that time as well. I think from the late 80's on, companies have started tuning them in wind tunnels for efficiency.

aerohead 07-03-2012 03:22 PM

efficiency
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sven7 (Post 315043)
Mirror design has come a long way in that time as well. I think from the late 80's on, companies have started tuning them in wind tunnels for efficiency.

yeah,at least Ford has claimed zero-impact for some of theirs.

aerohead 07-03-2012 03:26 PM

Goofed as usual,here are corrected values
 
I found the article.It's from 1962.
Ford claimed that the outside rear view mirror increased fuel consumption by 0.05 mpg.It's drag was 1-lb at 65 mph,and over 1,000 miles would cost an additional 7-cents in fuel.
yep! my memory sucks!

NeilBlanchard 07-03-2012 10:38 PM

I swear I saw a setup years ago that had convex bumps in the side windows and they nestled the mirrors on the inside -- these would stay dry and give you a good viewing angle. That part of the window would have to be fixed, obviously.

oil pan 4 07-03-2012 11:11 PM

Side mirror delete:
Side mirrors - EcoModder
2.5% fuel economy boost average for 6 drivers.

kach22i 07-04-2012 09:44 AM

On many aircraft (like jet fighters), the mirrors are inside of the canopy, but I thought that was illegal on cars. At least on the driver's side.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1102626445.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1102626497.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1102628876.jpg

ryan5895 07-04-2012 03:19 PM

Well, if aerohead's numbers from his article are correct, even at todays fuel prices you would only save about $40 over the entire life of your vehicle.

I had it typed up all nice and then it got deleted....

So, basically save your time, effort, and the appearance of your vehicle and leave your side mirrors attached.

basjoos 07-04-2012 03:31 PM

Exterior side mirrors are also responsible for a lot of the wind noise you are hearing since they creat a lot of turbulent air flow on the outside of the glass right next to your ear. Moving my side mirrors to the inside made a noticeable reduction in wind noise.

cfg83 07-04-2012 03:57 PM

kach22i -

Quote:

Originally Posted by kach22i (Post 315184)
On many aircraft (like jet fighters), the mirrors are inside of the canopy, but I thought that was illegal on cars. At least on the driver's side.

...

I think it depends on which state you are in, but that's why I have a small motorcycle mirror on the driver's side in California. I actually like it that way.

CarloSW2

SentraSE-R 07-04-2012 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan5895 (Post 315216)
Well, if aerohead's numbers from his article are correct, even at todays fuel prices you would only save about $40 over the entire life of your vehicle.

I had it typed up all nice and then it got deleted....

So, basically save your time, effort, and the appearance of your vehicle and leave your side mirrors attached.

Not quite. That was 7 cents/1000 miles from unaerodynamic mirrors on unaerodynamic cars. If we can make the stretch from that to aerodynamic mirrors on aerodynamic cars having the identical drag costs, then 7 cents/1000 miles in the days of 25 cent/gallon gas equals $1/1000 miles in today's $4/gallon economy. $1 every 1000 miles is $150 over the lifetime of my vehicle.

I researched side mirror requirements in the western states I drive in. CA, NV, AZ, NM, & TX only require one rear view mirror and one side mounted mirror giving a view 200' to the rear. None of them state that side mirror has to be mounted outside the car.

CA & one or two of the others have outside mirror requirements if the view back through the rear window is blocked by anything except passengers.

Some states, like NC, clearly do have outside side mirror requirements. Caveat ecomodder.

ryan5895 07-04-2012 07:21 PM

You might have calculated it based on percentage.. But even if not, $150 is MAYBE 3-4 tanks of gas, over the ENTIRE life of the vehicle....

And it wouldn't take long at all for a lawyer to prove that it is infact, illegal to have the side mirrors inside the vehicle... So, basically, one prick cop writing you a ticket for that would completely eliminate any savings.....

NachtRitter 07-04-2012 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerohead (Post 315050)
I found the article.It's from 1962.
Ford claimed that the outside rear view mirror increased fuel consumption by 0.05 mpg.It's drag was 1-lb at 65 mph,and over 1,000 miles would cost an additional 7-cents in fuel.
yep! my memory sucks!

Another more recent study was on the Audi A2 (described in this thread: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...-cd-21175.html). Sounds like drag reduction by removing mirrors was 5%, which is not too bad considering a full belly pan reduced drag by 7%.

SentraSE-R 07-05-2012 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan5895 (Post 315255)
And it wouldn't take long at all for a lawyer to prove that it is infact, illegal to have the side mirrors inside the vehicle... So, basically, one prick cop writing you a ticket for that would completely eliminate any savings.....

Wrong. My job was to enforce the law. If the law only requires a side-mounted mirror giving a view to the rear for 200', and an officer cites me for not having an outside-mounted mirror, I'll win one of two ways.

Any judge will toss the case out if an officer cites me for violating a law or regulation that doesn't exist. If he doesn't, he'll be overruled on appeal, and will be hammered by the appeals court.

If the officer cites me for not having a side-mounted mirror giving a view to the rear for 200', all I have to do is prove my inside mounted mirror gives a view to the rear for 200'. I'll park outside the courthouse, measure off 200', take a picture of the six cars behind me and the flagpole behind them, and bring it into court. I can't lose if I meet the requirement of the law.

Here are the side mirror laws by state. California's law says

Quote:

California Vehicle Code, Section 26709.

(a) Every motor vehicle registered in a foreign jurisdiction and every motorcycle subject to registration in this state shall be equipped with a mirror so located as to reflect to the driver a view of the highway for a distance of at least 200 feet to the rear of such vehicle.

Every motor vehicle subject to registration in this state, except a motorcycle, shall be equipped with not less than two such mirrors, including one affixed to the left-hand side.

(b) The following described types of motor vehicles, of a type subject to registration, shall be equipped with mirrors on both the left-and right-hand sides of the vehicle so located as to reflect to the driver a view of the highway through each mirror for a distance of at least 200 feet to the rear of such vehicle:

(1) A motor vehicle so constructed or loaded as to obstruct the driver's view to the rear.

(2) A motor vehicle towing a vehicle and the towed vehicle or load thereon obstructs the driver's view to the rear.

(3) A bus or trolley coach.

(c) The provisions of subdivision (b) shall not apply to a passenger vehicle when the load obstructing the driver's view consists of passengers. Amended Ch. 74, Stats. 1970. Effective November 23, 1970.

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/..._0362Small.jpg
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/..._0363Small.jpg
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/..._0351Small.jpg
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/..._0350Small.jpg

ecomodded 07-05-2012 08:06 AM

Your interior mirror is taking up the slack plus some.
I think if you showed a police officer the added mirror he would deduce that you are safety conscious and have adequate rear view mirrors.
Never hurts to be pleasant either, to seal the deal.

Meaaloha 11-30-2012 04:10 PM

Where did You get that Rear view Mirror? I Am looking for a rear view mirror that Has all of those different angles. I tried a Convex Mirrow, But I can't get use to them. I'm trying to delete my Side mirrors. but Haven't come up with a solution to give me the same side view mirror benefit.

I also like being able to see the driver from my driver side mirror. I tried doing it on the inside. But the angle being on the inside just doesn't work.

Thanks!

Sven7 11-30-2012 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meaaloha (Post 342791)
Where did You get that Rear view Mirror? I Am looking for a rear view mirror that Has all of those different angles. I tried a Convex Mirrow, But I can't get use to them. I'm trying to delete my Side mirrors. but Haven't come up with a solution to give me the same side view mirror benefit.

I also like being able to see the driver from my driver side mirror. I tried doing it on the inside. But the angle being on the inside just doesn't work.

Thanks!

Search Ebay for "wide angle mirror"

New Speedway Motors Universal Wide Angle 5 Panel Rear View Mirror 35" Wide | eBay

slowmover 12-02-2012 08:17 AM

Maybe "smaller" outside rearview mirrors, IMO, and somethng like these (and/or wide-angle overhead rearview):

Autobahn side view convex

I recently increased the size of the mirrors on my truck. Having a larger field-of-view at a distance (behind travel trailer, rear bumper of which is nearly 60' back from driver) means better gauging of who/what is coming on behind me. Best FE is mainly about being lane-centered under all conditions . . so the information provided by mirrors has much to do with the time & extent of driver energetic inputs to the vehicle. The fewer and the lighter, the better.

And not just when towing.

.

BHarvey 12-02-2012 10:33 AM

I've found that the best view from a super wide angle rear view mirror comes when it is directly in front of the drivers face on the dash, not good for forward vision though.

oil pan 4 12-02-2012 03:10 PM

I don't know why I didn't add this sooner

Side mirrors - EcoModder

larrybuck 12-02-2012 05:27 PM

Early in this thread the pictures of the Pig Spotters haunted me.

Most states do require at least 1 exterior mirror. I realize the mpg gain is sort of minimal,
but a sleek image matching other body mods seems important.

I could not help but think one could find some toy in the Dollar store that was shaped like the mirrors I mentioned above; and you could have a fun project getting glass cut to fit, and epoxying, and fitting it to your vehicle giving you great satisfaction, and
saving plenty of $$$, especially from NO TICKETS!!!!!!!!

Now I'm looking forward to checking out toy sections of stores!!! LOL!!!!

radioranger 12-02-2012 06:39 PM

somebody must have tried a camera no?

freebeard 12-04-2012 03:14 PM

I love my Wink mirror. I've had the same one on 4 or 5 cars over the years.

Here's an article where the stock mirror is replaced by a smaller aero one, repositioned to reduce wind noise.

oil pan 4 12-04-2012 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrybuck (Post 343131)
Most states do require at least 1 exterior mirror.

The only state I drive in that I could find that seemed to require an external mirror is texas with its page long mirror law, as opposed to most states sharing a simular paragraph long mirror law that doesn't explicitly require an external mirror.

slowmover 12-04-2012 10:05 PM

There've been a few threads on RV forums about mirrors and tickets for lack of proper exterior mirrors while towing which cite viewing/focal distances, etc, appertaining to regular side view mirrors in states other than Texas.


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