It's a conspiracy
 

Why is it that there is such a drastic increase in FE in about 2006-2010? The Mazda cx 5, a sub crossover gets better mileage than my corolla, it's not fair! all these hyper efficient cars came out, and buying a used car I feel like I am missing out. So, I naturally blame the government.

It actually is the governments fault.

The CAFE standards were finally set so the manufacturers had a reason to actually use some existing technology to get better mileage. Hold out a few more years, in 2025 54MPG is supposed to be the average car figure.

The real conspiracy is why does my 1984 suburban in stock configuration get nearly as good or better fuel economy than these 2008+ $40,000+ hybrid trucks?

It is funny - when this forum started, there were precious few new vehicles available in the North American market that got decent fuel economy. We could practically count them on one hand.

brucey - don't forget that 54 number is uncorrected. The actual EPA figure will be quite a bit less (in the 40's - don't remember exactly what).

But through market pressure on fuel prices, CAFE regs or fuel taxes (not gonna happen in the US), things are only going to continue getting more efficient.

If Government is one of the conspirators who are the others?

the FED
 

Yeah...
But those epa ratings on many of those cars are gamed... Look at some of these vehicles epa numbers and then their real world performance on the online fuel logs... So do better, many do worse... some do MUCH worse!!! Like the car I almost bought... I think it is mostly 3 things:
Aerodynamics
weight
better fuel injection systems (like DFCO)

oil pan 4- horsepower and emissions on them might be a little different.

Really the whole deal is that I bought a new car in 2005, so a week later was the time for the whole industry to increase its FE.

It's one of those rare conspiracies that are actually making life better by decreasing overall fuel consumption and therefore the price of gas. It is doing weird things to the used car market, though. Newer used cars that get great mileage are really hard to find at a decent price because the demand is so high, even though the brand new ones often get even better mileage for almost the same price.

Whoah whoah whoah now... hold on a second here...

Do you honestly expect me to believe that manufacturers try to entice people to buy the products they make by making them better year after year?

No. They try to entice people to buy their products with commercials that have nothing to do with their products' merits.

ANd certain classes of vehicles are way down, IE small mini trucks.

Both 4 cyl trucks.....
85 Toyota,, 24 MPG with a carb.
2005 Toyota 15 on a good day...

I'm on for the conspiracy theory... LOL

Dave

Yup, 54 MPGe

The actual figure varies. The new CAFE # calculation is quite unclear (even though the tests are published), and varies based on the "footprint" of the vehicle.


OP: Part of it is the numbers fooling you.

CX-5: ~29 mpg http://www.fuelly.com/car/mazda/cx-5
06 Corolla: ~31mpg http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/corolla

Still pretty impressive though.

Just because something is new doesn't mean its always better for you the consumer.
I have found that all too often "new" means better for their bottom line, not yours.

New also means more expensive. When adjusted for inflation, the price of a new car has more than doubled in the last 30 years.

2000 or 220 cc vs 2700 cc? a lot more truck as well... I would love to finda decent old toyota diesel truck...

Huh, my roommate has a 2010 Tacoma 4cyl. He gets mid to upper 20s, and yes, its a lot more truck and an 85 model.

FWIW:
2010 is rated at 20/26
1985 is 23/29

(best case for both)

What you get for a new car has also increased radically. 3 or 4 catalytic converters, 10 airbags, crumple zones and whiz-bang electronics all cost money and they weren't included back then. Cars have gotten a lot bigger. They have horsepower numbers that would have been unbelievable 30 years ago and emissions numbers that would have been unbelievable 30 years ago. Fit & finish, NVH and reliability standards back then were practically nonexistent compared to today, and that's without even getting into mechanical reliability. Does anyone today know who Earl Scheib was?

I read a comparison once that used the first Accord as an example, but they had to compare it with the (then modern) Civic because both cars had grown so much in size and weight that they had to switch in order to compare apples to apples. Using the auto industry's "forcing us to add this feature will add $200 (or whatever) to the cost of a new car" statements and then adjusting for inflation, the two cars compared very well on cost.

Does anyone watch Top Gear BBC? I remember a special comparing the first Golf GTI, to the new one. Basically, the early cars had low standards which saved weight on air bags, electronics, so on, people were smaller, around the waste and genetically, also read in an interview regarding the Italian Job about thw difference in Cooper sizes over the year, also size for spac, such as cargo.

And there is pretty darn good reason to not build a perfect machine. Sure, we can get drag into the teens, maybe singles. Sure, we have 8 speed gear boxes. Sure, super high efficiency engines. Sure, dual turbo chargers, and super AND turbo combinations.

But if ONE vehicle was made this way, they would only make it for one year. Sure, more people will buy it, and sure, at some point wishy washies will switch over. But they will have a hard time making it better, and he new models worth buying.

A similar concept is seen in the Datsun GTR. Originally, it was a claimed 475 hp super car, all wheel drive, special aero design, and was the fastest car around the Nurghburgring forna long time. For 75k, the cheapest thing on the market.

So now each year, it is harder and harder to improve the vehicle. Their solution? They now make just slight changes each year, really jacked the price up.

And for the trucks, really there is only one small truck, the Ford Ranger, which is going to be dropped for a new vehicle in a few years. Thinking of the most reliable vehice in the world, a toyota tacoma, over the past decade has drastically increased in size.

Before we get into too many conspiracy theories, this might have something to do with it:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-di...e3821-fuel.png

I don't think so. In 02, gas was still around a buck. In 03 it was just over $1.50. I didn't have to buy any gas in 04 and in 05 I was too busy tearing it up to notice what gas cost. I really don't think that the rise in 03 made the whole industry suddenly reform its ways and I don't think they could respond much more quickly than that.

Those price spikes affect the kind of cars people are trying to buy on any given day, but I'm still watching quad cab pickups fly out the door.

I think it is that the culture is changing with the economy... More people are making less money, yet real inflation on food, energy, transportation, and everything except technology is rising much faster than wages...which for many folks is or has declined...

With the stock market crashing and being as unstable as it has been... the housing market crashing... The fact that our daily cost of providing, food, shelter, clothing, health insurance for our families has caused a need to cut somewhere...

I know folks who have been displaced, have found new jobs making 20-30% less and having to commute 90 minutes because they are underwater on a house that they wish they could sell...

A lot of folks don't plan... They exist in the moment... and right now after all the effects of the economy, most folks are scared...

I can say that the change is not one most folks would choose themselves, but one that is out of necessity...:(

Slasher -

I apologize for not have the URL for it, but I heard of a study that compares the standard of living of 1970 to today. The bottom line is that in order to maintain the *same* standard of living as 1970, a family has to work 60% more. My experience agrees with that.

As far as the original thread, I agree with Diesel_Dave. I especially think that the 2008 gas prices created the market for the influx of "subcompact" cars like the Yaris/Fit/Versa.

CarloSW2

2008 or 1973?

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehicles...t_fotw364.html

regards
Mech

Excellent point! Hence the death of the muscle car and the influx of the Japanese automakers into the US market.

Also, I found this interesting...the average model year for the current top 10 of gasoline car on this site is 1996--there's only one car on there made after 1999.

I noticed this while looking at engine series over the years. The new 4 bangers are getting some nifty but expensive stuff, especially Domestic branded ones.