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-   -   Jaguar: Back to the Future. (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/jaguar-back-future-35732.html)

JockoT 10-12-2017 05:04 AM

Jaguar: Back to the Future.
 
Check this out, especially the last few minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=610Amyhpzzk

wdb 10-12-2017 10:07 AM

Awesome! What an interesting way to keep automotive enthusiasm alive and well. Of course I have questions but I would very much follow a path like this in order to keep cool old cars on the road.

JockoT 10-12-2017 10:51 AM

I have had a look at the number of vehicles Jaguar produced with the XK6 engine, in all its various guises, and it is a formidable list. Imagine being able to buy a "power unit" from Jaguar (albeit at a price that would make your eyes water), the fit it, either yourself or have a specialist restorer do it, and your classic is brought into the 21st Century.
Now I appreciate that most classic owners want the original engine, but as the man from Jaguar says, in a future when petrol is not available (or use of ICE may even be illegal!), this is a brilliant solution.
Maybe other marques may follow suit. Those with large engines that remained unchanged for a long time. Rolls/Bentley, Mercedes, Ford(!). The list goes on.

Some XK6 fitted Jaguars.
http://carolinajaguarclub.com/wp-con..._pic_90488.jpg
XK120
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/...7687.jpg?w=960
D Type
https://inspirationseek.com/wp-conte...reen-Photo.jpg
Mk 2
http://platewave.com/content/plate/p...1420297901.jpg
Daimler Sovereign

and my all time favourite Jaguar - the MkVII.

http://www.majesticweddingcarsedinbu...Jaguar-MK7.jpg

gone-ot 10-12-2017 12:10 PM

When the EV "bugeyed" Sprite is announced, I want one...in red...thank you!

Daox 10-12-2017 12:48 PM

Very cool to see an OEM looking to do stuff like this. I must say I'm a bit surprised too, pleasantly so.

JockoT 10-12-2017 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Tele man (Post 552275)
When the EV "bugeyed" Sprite is announced, I want one...in red...thank you!

The Austin-Healey Sprite used the BMC A-Series engine, one of the longest running engines built in the UK, so it would be ideal for a replacement. Only problem would be that such a small engine would only permit a tiny battery, so until battery density improves dramatically, you will just have to dream!

This one is still on the go.

https://assets.bauer-wolke.co.uk/ima..._resized_1.jpg

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 10-12-2017 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JockoT (Post 552266)
Now I appreciate that most classic owners want the original engine, but as the man from Jaguar says, in a future when petrol is not available (or use of ICE may even be illegal!), this is a brilliant solution.

Ethanol, biomethane and eventually some synthetic fuels from a renewable feedstock might become available more easily, but I honestly have my doubts about a total ban on ICE. What would seem like a matter of higher concern is the lube oil, which might most likely be replaced with castor or palm oil. On a sidenote the Nazis made synthetic gasoline and Diesel fuel out of wood chips in Poland, and nowadays there are commercially-available synthetic lube oils made out of natural gas through the very same Fischer-Tropsch process employed to make gasoline from coal and wood chips. Considering an eventual advantage that an ICE proportionates to the closure of the carbon cycle, and the possibility of using nearly any organic waste as a source of fuel instead of leaving it rot away and release methane and ethanol vapors through the atmosphere, in the end it sounds more reasonable to keep the ICE even taking in account the environmental aspect.

JockoT 10-12-2017 05:54 PM

I cannot imagine a time when we will ever run out of hydrocarbon fuels, but there may come a time when some countries (or States) totally ban their use. That is not inconceivable.

freebeard 10-12-2017 06:06 PM

Quote:

Check this out, especially the last few minutes.
I was thinking '...last few seconds', but you covered it in your second post. I'll bet one would fit in a 1964 1/2 Ford Falcon Futura.

Is it BYOB (bring your own body)? Can I get one in basalt/carbon fiber?

In their most recent video EVTV have declared victory in mainstreaming EVs and are stepping away from the resto-mods like this to concentrate on Tesla power packs and drivetrains. In past episodes they showed the Torque-[something] two-speed planetary gearbox that passes 'up to' 500hp. That goes where the transmission tailstock was. The electric motor goes where the transmission was. Then the battery pack goes where the engine was. (Charger/inverters/controller where the radiator was for cooling?)

Landing on the existing motor mounts is a big deal. I've got a stalled out project to do just that with a Lexus drivetrain in an air-cooled VW Beetle.

that Sprite would need a single-wheel pusher trailer made from a Vespa motorscooter minus the front forks.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr — www.coolplanet.com

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 10-12-2017 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JockoT (Post 552307)
I cannot imagine a time when we will ever run out of hydrocarbon fuels, but there may come a time when some countries (or States) totally ban their use. That is not inconceivable.

In a totalitarian regime, yes, it wouldn't be inconceivable. Such a limit to the range and the possibilities to explore alternate energy sources would be an easy way to keep the population in captivity.

freebeard 10-12-2017 10:26 PM

Quote:

...yes, it would [no]t be inconceivable
:confused: To quote Han Solo, "I can imagine quite a lot." Does that make it inexorable?

If your totalitarian regime tries to make everyone a coal miner, they can still be blind-sided by the bottom falling out of solar energy costs. Unless they are prescient enough to get ahead of the rate of innovation. Good luck with that.

edit:
What was the thread about again?

http://78.media.tumblr.com/62b6f3cd1...feno1_1280.jpg
http://rollerman1.tumblr.com/post/166131108784/doyoulikevintage-jaguar

samwichse 10-13-2017 12:35 PM

An old e-type makes a great conversion candidate, honestly.

That big old chunk of iron engine coming out means you can stick a lot of batteries up front without compromising the car's balance.

The big issue would be all the transaxle/joints/driveshaft taking electric motor levels of torque long term. Without replacing all that, this car's going to be pretty unreliable.

Daox 10-13-2017 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samwichse (Post 552340)
The big issue would be all the transaxle/joints/driveshaft taking electric motor levels of torque long term. Without replacing all that, this car's going to be pretty unreliable.

I would imagine that that was examined when sizing and programming the electric drivetrain. Not doing so would be a pretty huge oversight.

freebeard 10-13-2017 01:51 PM

That is a reasonable concern. Not so much the torque as the shock loading. Electrics can apply maximum torque in 1/10th the time a gas engine takes.

This might be solvable in software, adding a ramp function to the 'throttle'.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 10-13-2017 05:33 PM

Sure there would be plenty of room to arrange the battery packs in a way that won't interfere too much on the handling compared to a stock E-Type. When it comes to driveline, I'd also expect some direct-drive unit not so bigger than a regular differential case or transaxle to become the standard for similar projects. Eventually, catering to those die-hard entusiasts, it may be possible to program the motor to emulate gears and enable some shifting-like behavior, in a pattern similar to what is already implemented to some CVTs with a sequential manual mode.


I have already seen an E-Type in my hometown, and BTW it was an U.S.-spec with automatic transmission, but never seen it with the rear hatch open.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PmBS3ilzSc.../Photo4210.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xjxPeEK8Pk.../Photo4211.jpg

freebeard 10-13-2017 06:09 PM

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...r_subframe.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/Jaguar_E-Type_Series_3_rear_subframe.jpg

The XKE subframe. I'm not sure where the mount points are, but the Tesla subframe has four, two low on each side. Solve that and it's down to whether the tin needs to be cut.

http://www.laglobalparts.com/Tools/G...ccfc481044.JPG
http://www.laglobalparts.com/Tools/GetProductPicture?name=18084_cdac817a-2736-4a98-98a3-67ccfc481044.JPG

wdb 10-14-2017 01:56 PM

As long as you're modding the car, put those awful inboard brakes outboard. (Says the ex-Jag mechanic!)

JockoT 10-14-2017 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdb (Post 552404)
As long as you're modding the car, put those awful inboard brakes outboard. (Says the ex-Jag mechanic!)

They were a nightmare, as were Rover's inboard discs.

freebeard 10-14-2017 03:33 PM

Some famous person said the XKE is the most beautiful car in the world. I think the long hood and upright windshield looks [another word for dorky]. I prefer the Volhart-Sagitta V2 from that era, or better yet the Shelby Cobra coupe; which is also recast as an EV, the Renovo:

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media...wkdh9dr4fi.jpg

jalopnik:The Renovo Coupe Is An Electric Shelby With 1,000 LB-FT Of Torque

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media...zaltgbbtlo.jpg

slowmover 10-15-2017 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr (Post 552311)
In a totalitarian regime, yes, it wouldn't be inconceivable. Such a limit to the range and the possibilities to explore alternate energy sources would be an easy way to keep the population in captivity.

Major metro areas = private & delivery as electric only; and commercial is Diesel to distribution center, then LNG into town.

Rural = all else.

Then licensing and taxation to punish ICE.

Same road that let the communists take automatic weapons (and gold) from Americans.

Kinda hard to revolt with an SAA Colt and 3-gals of something or other in the truggy. With a worthless debit card.

As to the topic, there's no practical value to a 1960s car re-engined. Crash protection is abysmal.

.

jamesqf 10-15-2017 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowmover (Post 552453)
As to the topic, there's no practical value to a 1960s car re-engined. Crash protection is abysmal.

Which ought to be an incentive not to crash, no? Seems like the more crash protection you add, the more recklessly people drive.

freebeard 10-15-2017 03:32 PM

George Hotz has shown it's possible to retro-fit self-driving capabilities. All the four-door sedans may be crushed, but the sedan deliveries and convertibles deserve to live on.

Quote:

It’s a complicated balance, but all signs point to more new efficiency gains than losses from self-driving tech—even at its present power-hog status. The University of Michigan Center for Sustainable Systems, for instance, last year summed up the potential efficiency gains from various aspects of converting to a self-driving economy, including reduced congestion and potential savings in the weight of safety systems if such cars can be engineered not to crash.
https://blog.caranddriver.com/self-driving-vehicles-may-save-energy-despite-power-hog-tech-on-board/

gone-ot 10-15-2017 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowmover (Post 552453)
As to the topic, there's no practical value to a 1960s car re-engined. Crash protection is abysmal.

...except that average owners COULD actually service & repair pretty much everything by themselves. And, NOT getting into an accident is far more effective than attempting to survive one.

freebeard 10-15-2017 05:10 PM

You sound like a VW Beetle driver. :thumbup:

wdb 10-15-2017 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 552407)
Some famous person said the XKE is the most beautiful car in the world.

Enzo Ferrari in 1961.
Quote:

I think the long hood and upright windshield looks [another word for dorky]. I prefer the Volhart-Sagitta V2 from that era, or better yet the Shelby Cobra coupe;
The Sagitta looks like a Saab with a toothache. Hideous. Pete Brock penned the Daytona Coupe several years after the E Type was introduced, and that famous guy made his famous comment. I doubt he would have ever said the same thing about the Daytona Coupe! After all it trounced his own 250's.

And I don't really care what Enzo says. The original E Type is a stupefyingly gorgeous collection of curves.

freebeard 10-15-2017 09:30 PM

Oh, that guy.
Quote:

"Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines."
Enzo Ferrari

The curves are nice, it's that awkward angle at the base of the upright, flat windshield. Compare the bubble top of the Volkhart-Sagitta or the Talbot-Lagos. Figoni & Falaschi teardrop coupé on a 1938 SS 150 chassis:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...3067512%29.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talbot-Lago

Ferrari post-Enzo:

https://liquifun.files.wordpress.com...ferrari-05.jpg
https://liquifun.wordpress.com/2013/03/12/what-enzo-ferrari-would-say-on-la-ferrari/#more-233

I'd like to see the La Ferrari lights, cut-lines, and livery on a Volkhart-Sagitta [clone].

Fingie 10-16-2017 09:53 AM

a old volvo is pretty safe even by modern standards.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 10-17-2017 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowmover (Post 552453)
Major metro areas = private & delivery as electric only; and commercial is Diesel to distribution center, then LNG into town.

Rural = all else.

Then licensing and taxation to punish ICE.

Once again I gotta say it doesn't seem reasonable to ban the ICE at all. Though I still consider the conventional reciprocating engine to remain viable in the foreseeable future, there are also other alternatives that could be developed further such as that LiquidPiston rotary engine and microturbines that could get a multifuel ability enabling them to become a good power supply not just for plug-in hybrids but eventually also supply electric power to the household during a shortage. Replacing regular gasoline and Diesel fuel with renewable biofuels seem more reasonable.


Quote:

As to the topic, there's no practical value to a 1960s car re-engined. Crash protection is abysmal.
It might not seem to make sense from a practical standpoint nowadays, but hey, had crash standards been an absolute priority for everybody there would be no motorcycles anymore. OTOH it still sounds more sustainable to repower an older bodyshell instead of making an entire new vehicle.

slowmover 10-20-2017 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Tele man (Post 552464)
...except that average owners COULD actually service & repair pretty much everything by themselves. And, NOT getting into an accident is far more effective than attempting to survive one.

Here's an example. Fatal crashes in cities tend to be by red light runners. T-bone. Not something one can anticipate with surety.

jamesqf 10-20-2017 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowmover (Post 552748)
Here's an example. Fatal crashes in cities tend to be by red light runners. T-bone. Not something one can anticipate with surety.

1) I don't live in a city, or spend more than a minimal amount of time in one. Why should I have to drive a vehicle built with city hazards in mind? And not say deer/wild horses/bears &c running out in front of me?

2) One can surely look both ways when sitting at a light, to see if there's approaching vehicles that don't appear interested in stopping?

JockoT 10-20-2017 02:03 PM

I always treat every Green traffic light as a Give Way. Mind you, we have Red, Red and Amber, then Green, so anyone coming through on their Red has well run the lights (like didn't see it!). My car has no side airbags, so if I get T-Boned I am well dead.

freebeard 10-20-2017 02:14 PM

slowmover — I'm trying to have hope and you're not helping. :(

freebeard 11-16-2017 05:56 PM

Here ya' go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONGvPjrYRY4
Published on Aug 4, 2016 — The D-type Jaguar from RCR. The XKE was a D-type with clothes on. I could dig one of these or the XKSS. Jaguar built 25 more of those ones but they sold out at US$2.5million each.

RCR use respectable fabrication techniques and would surely undercut the price. An EV conversion with the Wolftronics 2-speed planetary gearbox and a pouch-cell battery would be sweet. :thumbup:

Xist 11-25-2017 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 552319)
What was the thread about again?

That Volkswagen should have made the Type 3 engine standard and turned the beetle into a hatchback in 1966.

freebeard 11-25-2017 09:22 PM

Get out of my head!

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-fr...22-3-28-33.png

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 11-26-2017 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 554933)
That Volkswagen should have made the Type 3 engine standard and turned the beetle into a hatchback in 1966.

Would've been great if VW had made the Type 3 engine standard, clearing some space in the engine bay to eventually fit the battery there for example. When it comes to turning the Beetle into a hatchback, I guess the Brasília was the closest approach to that proposal. Well, it would clearly benefit from the Type 3 engine, since it would allow some useful load space.

mcrews 11-27-2017 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Tele man (Post 552275)
When the EV "bugeyed" Sprite is announced, I want one...in red...thank you!

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thum bup::thumbup:

freebeard 11-27-2017 11:54 PM

Your thumbup has it's thum bup. :)

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=palemoon&q=%22Miata+is+the+answer%22

It comes with a sweet retractable hard top.

RedDevil 08-24-2018 09:32 AM

Jaguar's electric E-type is going into production!
 
https://electrek.co/2018/08/23/jagua...ev-conversion/
https://i0.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-con...trip=all&ssl=1
https://i0.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-con...trip=all&ssl=1

Apparently they'll use many I-Pace components.
Whatever, as long as they stay true to the lines of the Zero Concept:

https://i0.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-con...trip=all&ssl=1


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