Jalopnik: Why the Dipstick is Dying
 

Why The Dipstick Is Dying - Oil - Jalopnik

A kind of disappointing story about how car manufacturers are starting to remove the dipstick from newer engines and replace it with electronic sensors.

Autoblog also had a post on the subject, which included this depressing (and probably accurate) statement:


http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/22/t...%28Autoblog%29

Once, I had my car at the local german-car garage, when this lady come in and tell the guy:''Could you check my car please, the tire-pressure light came on!!!'', like it was the end of her world.
I'd bet she didn't even know what model her car (''doesn't matters, it's a bmw'') was, and she probably don't know how to open the hood for that matters.

I'll take the older model with all these useless things like the *working* temp gauge, the gauges with real needles and an oil dipstick way before I get one of those new, huh, car-for-the-people-that-dont-care-how-it-work, even if I had the money.

He probably made a few bucks that day greasing the exhaust and re-filling the blinker fluid, in addition to topping off her tires with nitrogen.

I actually HAVE a car that has replaced the oil dipstick with an electronic sensor. On the plus side, I usually check the oil level once a day now, while waiting at a stoplight, as opposed to once every fillup. Still, when I'm changing the oil and filling it up, I really miss the dipstick.

There's no transmission dipstick, either, but there isn't one in my wife's car, either.

I wonder if the trend toward no dipsticks being led by European carmakers also has something to do with environmental regs in Europe...?

It's all good till the sensors start to fail after a couple years down the road, now the real diagnosis fun begins. Especially when problems are intermitent in the beginning.

There's another - and happier - reason. Cars just don't burn oil like they used to. Wasn't uncommon, once upon a time, to see older cars where you'd have to add a quart of oil every thousand miles or so. Now my Toyota pickup (210K miles) and Insight (140K) each go to their recommended oil change intervals without a noticable change in the oil level on the dipstick.

There were once dip sticks for gas tanks too. ;)

...yep, we used them to "dip" our wing fuel tanks to measure/compare how much fuel there was vs. our "pounds" reading gauges.

A level sending unit is such a simple piece, I doubt there will be a mass of problems with it, like some are suggesting. In reality, what percentage of fuel sending units actually go bad? The pumps die before a variable resistor does.. Of the things to measure on a guage, I have no complaint at oil level. You don't pop your radiator cap to check coolant temp do you?

For an older car, like my Chevy that burns a quart a month (or leaks, it's a Ninja in that regard) a guage in the truck would be handy, to say the least.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/74553.jpg

I still have a dip stick:) But I can't see how much window fluid I have:( Or access the air filter without taking half of the things in the engine bay apart. Even getting at the battery is tough.

A few years ago Fiat showed a prototype (not sure if it made it into production) in which the hood didn't open, only the grille would fold open for access to 3-4 things (add washer fluid, etc.).

The more information presented to me in the driver's seat, the better, but I'd still want the dipstick to measure when filling (instead of having to get in and out of the car a few times.)

Then again, do a Google search for "leaking dipstick tube." Maybe we're better off without.

Which reminds me of this trend, where all the interesting parts are covered: http://image.europeancarweb.com/f/93...engine_bay.jpg

I used to check my oil dipstick every thousand miles or so, but the result was always the same. Now I do it right before and right after an oil change, just to keep an eye on oil consumption, which is predictably slow. I'd rather have a level sensor, and an X-gauge that reads it.

...and then there's that 'Dipstick' guy who runs around 'whooping' people about a synthetic oil?

Think with your dipstick, Jimmy.

My wife's Saturn doesn't have a transmission fluid dipstick. The fill procedure is the same as filling a differential... fill until it comes back out the plug hole. Of course, it's difficult to do this when you're filling from the top of the case, and the plug hole is fairly inconspicuously placed on the lower section of the transaxle. :rolleyes:

And there is no sensor to tell me about the fluid level, either.

IMHO dipsticks fall squarely into the K.I.S.S. principle.

I drive an "ancient" or at least old car by today's standards. sure IT might be an 1981 Honda Civic wagon with only 60,000 original miles, no A/C, no power steering, manual transmission, no power windows or door locks, and no computer.

But I love the thing because it is a breeze to work on. Nothing to go bad, nothing is "power" powered.
As an amateur mechanic I love being able to pop the hood and actually check the oil level with a dipstick.....heck, I even change the oil myself when it needs it.

It constantly amazes me how few people know how to, or are willing to learn how to change a tire, let alone check the oil level.

all the different oils out there, maine and arctic thermals, viscosity changes, expansions, and density changes...water in the fluid, other stuff in the fluid, gas washing changing levels...

knowing fuel injected is for and designed by down syndrome already, I wonder what the wannabe smarts did with the electronics now.:rolleyes:

can we just go to war? my dainty "hands on" fist versus ...


we are runting to a hermaphrodite society as we know it.

I hope frank lee quotes me. :)

And those of us who've had a GM "W"-Body with the Buick 3800 engine, will now raise their hands. :thumbup: Sending unit went, fuel pump still doing fine. Luckily there was a "fuel used" calculator in the on-board computer, and that plus judicious use of the trip odometer, and it wasn't a big deal.

(Not that I'm complaining - despite the occasional fuel sending unit going, or intermediate steering shaft needing lubed, the ol' Impala was a great car, and I gave it to my dad. It's 10 years old with 150,000 miles on it and still going strong -- he just drove it down and back to Florida, actually. I kept my wife's 2006 Pontiac G6 GT. I kind of wish I'd kept the Impala and given him the G6. given the glitches I've had with the Pontiac, but that's another story...)

Ouch. I hadn't thought of that.

It isn't as simple as getting in and out of the car a few times to see the oil level -- the display on the BMW on-board computer won't register the oil level until the oil is at operating temperature, so you pretty much have to take a 10 minute drive before you'll know for sure.

That said, it is nice to just be able to check it whenever I'm driving around...

jkp1187 -

In the olden daze I didn't look at my dipstick either. But, now with my olden car, I know I would have destroyed the engine without it. That's due in-part to my engine's oil-burning design.

RobertSmalls -

I can't stand the plastic engine covers either. When I was in Europe I was anxious to take pictures of my company-car Renault Megane diesel, and I opened the hood to see meaningless plastic covers.

I will miss the dipstick. Every day new cars become less and less attractive to me.

CarloSW2

Your wish is my command!
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...51_hailing.gif

Just pull the cover off! Usually it's just held in by the oil cap and maybe a couple of screws.

jkp1187 -

Yeah, but I was all alone in Europe without my toolbox. I wasn't brave enough to mess with a car that belonged to my employers.

CarloSW2

Remember when oil dipsticks were metal, not plastic? Those where the days...

And sometimes they were two or three feet long...

...and looked like an automotive-version of a stilleto/rapier sword!

Piwoslaw -

Yeah, mine is metal, *and* it's two feet long.

CarloSW2

Small Block Chevy - 5 quarts every time, no guessing.

Part of the no dipstick in Automatic transmissions is due to contamination concerns. The dipstick/tube interface will allow dirt in no matter how many o-rings you put on the plastic handle. Most people don't change their ATF that often. Most people don't at all. Not having a dipstick probably makes fiscal sense for the mfg. as far as warranty work is concerned. It sucks for those of us who do change their ATF on a regular basis.

Not having one on the engine is a stupid idea. Made even more stupid by putting in an electronic sensor that won't read until the oil warms up. Hope your oil's not real low when you go to warm it back up.

Just make sure you put in close to the right amount before you start up.

Don

It's amazing how the length can vary: On my '88 Caprice the ATF dipstick is one of those very long ones. On my '89 Galant it is only about 3 inches long, mounted right atop the tranny. That may be the world's shortest dipstick design. :cool:

Sucks that so many things are designed in such a way as to control user behavior, I don't try to control what companies do with the dollars I give them. Look at how tightly Apple controls what you do with their iphone/pad/crap? Bench seats in cars are gone because they want to control where you sit so the safety devices can do their job, cool but I'm an adult who can legally decide to ride a dirt bike with no helmet if I want, I can decide where inside my car I sit too and some of us like bench seats. Visible/reusable/standard-tool-type assembly hardware is gone not for aesthetics but to keep you from tampering with your own car, they put a hood under the hood but over the engine, I'm sure partially to control noise and maintain engine temp. when you hop inside a store for 10 minutes, but also it's a frickin hood hood. That's like putting tires under your tires to keep your tires off the road, or putting a windshield in front of your windshield to keep bugs off your windshield. Once I've made the leap into lifting my hood in the first place, I don't need another hood under it to shield my delicate eyes from the necessary workings of my car. My stomach is strong, I CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH ABOUT HOW MY CAR FUNCTIONS! Manufacturers had a couple perfectly good size/interface standards for in-car entertainment devices (car stereos and the like) but have almost entirely abandoned them.

For any engineers who may be reading this: Next time I give you my dollar bills for your product, you're only allowed to spend them on subwoofers. Not your mortgage, not the "Gentlemans' Club" and sure as heck not your kids' braces. Only subwoofers. You don't like me controlling how you use the money I traded you for your product? Hey, you started it.

We heard you liked hoods dawg, so we put a hood under yo' hood!

I could go on...

lol, memes are a little slow to get to this forum for some reason :)
http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/...0-ThisMeme.jpg

That's why I figured that now, since it's been so long, would be a perfect time to unleash it here!

I love those mile long dipsticks in early 90s suburban transmissions. About as long as it could be and still function.

My explorer has a dipstick, but it also has a light that goes on when the oil level drops a quart. I was glad to have it when it did its thing.

I think bench seats went out because individual bucket seats are generally more comfortable. And you can adjust your seat without having to ask everyone sitting up front to cooperate as you try to move the seat forward. Of course, when I was in college and I had a nice looking lady in the middle of the front seat, bench seats seemed ok to me :D

Since the general American public seems to be largely retarded nowadays, and the only way to get (some) people to do the right thing is to legally require them to do so, why don't we do just that? Ban electronic oil checking and require dipsticks. Although it's the lazy uneducated dolts who don't want or know how to open their hoods fault, it's also the automaker's fault for giving in. Give the people what they need, not what they want.

I'd be more worried about a nanny state telling me my EV needs a dipstick, than about people who check their oil using a level gauge. Legislation is inflexible and slow to respond, so it's really poor at mandating one technological solution over another.

I think you all are still missing the point. Back in the olden days, we checked oil frequently because many (most?) cars leaked & burned a bunch of it. Nowdays, losing a quart of oil between the 10K mile oil changes is a sign of a major malfunction. So why spend the time to check something that 99.999% of the time is not going to need anything done about it?

FTM, why not have a dipstick in your gas tank to check the fuel level? Gotta be better than one of them electronic sensors...

[QUOTE=jamesqf;174372]I think you all are still missing the point. Back in the olden days, we checked oil frequently because many (most?) cars leaked & burned a bunch of it. Nowdays, losing a quart of oil between the 10K mile oil changes is a sign of a major malfunction. So why spend the time to check something that 99.999% of the time is not going to need anything done about it? [quote]

Most cars that are over 10 years old begin to leak some oil due to aging of seals. One of my cars is 10 years old; two others are over 20 years old. Of course nowadays, no manufacturer wants anyone to keep a product anywhere near ten years, let alone 20.

For several reasons: a car burns fuel and it needs to be refilled quite often. A dipstick for gasoline would be messy and would not have an adequate seal to prevent evaporation. Most cars hold at least 10 gallons of gas but only about five quarts of oil. No damage will be done if you run out of gas, and the car will run until all fuel is depleted. If you run out of oil, it's goodbye engine.

Most importantly, oil is checked and added with the engine not running. It is easy to do with a dipstick because you are working under the hood where you can check and add the oil. If you needed to keep stopping and restarting the car and checking a gauge on the dashboard it would be a PITA.

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/2940/ouchgw.jpg

ouch.. hope the wife doesn't see that :thumbup: :D

It was before she was in the picture. Not to say it wasn't nice, but that was in my first car, and i was on my 3rd when she showed up.

I would love to have a low oil light come on in all my vehicles, but without a dipstick, how would you know if the oil in a car you're considering purchasing has the correct level? Or if the thing is starting to leak? The dipstick is just too simple and accurate to remove entirely.

I thought that was called a "pre-purchase inspection"?

I know everyone relies on the dealer's "1 million forty-two point" inspections now, but jeez, look over your car before you buy it!

If the engine is squeaky clean, it's kinda obvious they're hiding something...