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-   -   John Britten: the ultimate "modder"? (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/john-britten-ultimate-modder-11393.html)

NeilBlanchard 12-11-2009 12:04 PM

John Britten: the ultimate "modder"?
 
John Britten designed and built these amazing machines: they have (at least) 5 major design elements: "skin & bones" carbon fiber wheels, beam suspension with no "stiction" and controllable geometry, 4-valve hand cast stressed member engine in frame-less chassis, unique aerodynamics (dubbed "torpedo over blade"), and the fully ducted cooling system that made this narrow design possible. It weighs just 145kg (320 pounds).

John Britten on Wikipedia
Top Gear on Britten
Isle of Man TT race video
Best Motorcycles Ever #6
Britten V1000 Superbike Motorcycle - History

These are especially delicious for us aspiring engineering types!

Britten Bike Story - One Man's Dream Pt1
Britten Bike Story - One Man's Dream Pt2
Britten Bike Story - One Man's Dream Pt3
Britten Bike Story - One Man's Dream Pt4
Britten Bike Story - One Man's Dream Pt5
Britten Bike Story - One Man's Dream Pt6
Britten Bike Story - One Man's Dream Pt7
Britten Bike Story - One Man's Dream Pt8
Britten Bike Story - One Man's Dream Pt9

Front view showing cooling intake scoops:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...n_IMG_5554.jpg

Profile/side view showing all the goodness (carbon fiber wheels and beam suspension, stressed member engine, unique aerodynamics):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...0-IMG_5422.jpg

Rear cooling exhaust vent:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...d/sot2003a.jpg

vtec-e 12-12-2009 06:22 AM

I saw that bike on display in a museum in Wellington, NZ. Very impressive considering it was a custom bike in every sense of the word. Way ahead of its time. Here is a link providing some tech spec: Britten V1000 motorcycle - Collections Online - Museum of New Zealand Te Papa Tongarewa

ollie

SVOboy 12-12-2009 06:36 AM

I like the look of those wheels, but aren't the hands still sticking out in the airflow?

NeilBlanchard 12-12-2009 07:15 PM

Hi Ben,

Maybe a little, but there is a bit of a "pocket" created by the fairing. I had a BMW K75S:
http://www.obairlann.net/reaper/moto...s/DCP00488.JPG
http://www.fingerlakesbmw.org/visual.../k75sfirst.jpg
(that is NOT me...)

This fairing protected my hands pretty well and the air off of the top of the windscreen hit me in the middle of my face -- I'm 6'-4", so I am taller than this fellow. I had to chop off about 1 1/2" from the top so that the air hit me in the lower part of my neck, and the rumbling noise was MUCH better.

koihoshi 12-15-2009 07:15 AM

That's an awesome bike and a very cool story!

Christ 12-15-2009 09:29 AM

As awesome as it would be to own one, I think I'd end up killing myself on it. I don't think I could resist lifting the front end up a little bit every time I hit the throttle, and that's what got me in trouble the last time I had a bike years ago... that and just speed in general.

That's why I bought a 180cc... :)

NeilBlanchard 12-15-2009 10:56 AM

Hi,

I'm thinking that beyond the bike, which is awesome -- the fact that such an amazing machine was conceived of, designed, built from scratch in 11 months, and have it perform at such a high level is quite inspiring!

What sort of things are possible if one wants to build an uber-efficient EV in a backyard workshop?

dcb 12-15-2009 12:14 PM

the bikeness helps though, as it sweeps away most delusions about safety and the nannies don't even bother tearing it down based on its differences from other bikes.

NeilBlanchard 12-15-2009 05:41 PM

Some of the things that John Britten (and a small group of friends and associates) accomplished in ~11 months:

Redesigned his V1000 v-twin four valve engine to be an 1100cc, hand cast all the metal parts, heat treated & machined everything, flow tested, and on the dynamometer -- where it produced 170BHP.

Designed and build a front and rear girder suspension out of carbon fiber, that bolt to the engine.

Designed the aerodynamics of the whole motorcycle and cooling system, that has an intake port on the nose of the fairing, is ducted through to the radiator which is under the tail section -- that worked the first time. All this bodywork and the seat subframe are fabricated out of carbon fiber, natch!

Designed and built carbon fiber wheels, using a unique structural scheme, that is referred to as "skin & bones".

Designed and programmed a custom computer system that recorded all the important data from the engine (unique in motorcycle racing at the time).

The list of things that they did NOT build from scratch:

brakes
shocks/springs
transmission (sourced from Suzuki, IIANM)
battery and sparkplugs and other assorted electrical components
tires
[Edit: cylinder sleeves ]

Totally amazing, really! I see a lot of parallels between the Britten and the Aptera...

Christ 12-15-2009 05:57 PM

Neil -

The project and finish times are nothing short of amazing, that's for sure. I'd be wifeless if I attempted anything remotely similar, the time invested.

blueflame 12-25-2009 07:55 AM

Oddly we have a few good bike designers and riders from NZ, like Burt Munro and his Indian. Motocross riders from NZ are very strong. Kiwis may have flown before The Wright Brothers, jet boats are a kiwi idea too. Mostly innovative Scots from the South Island.

The latest innovation from Godszone is a radical new diesel engine

Shepherd Engine > News

Christ 12-25-2009 10:09 PM

Burt Monro is not a biker... he's a legend, as far as I'm concerned. We're talking about a man that built a bike while basically living in a shed, poor and content with his life, and made it against odds to Bonneville to set a freakin record.

There's a person I consider a hero. SuperMan can kiss my backside.

Bicycle Bob 12-26-2009 05:58 PM

"The latest innovation from Godszone is a radical new diesel engine
Shepherd Engine > News"

How wonderful to find 50% more efficiency from solving a basic problem with levers that does not even show up in the textbooks. I'm looking forward to the new diesels with efficiences between 80 and 110%.
I wish I could find a population that would all just laugh at such promotions.

NeilBlanchard 12-26-2009 08:47 PM

Yes, it is a cam driven engine, like the Revetec (that I mentioned earlier). The problem with a crankshaft engine is the maximum pressure occurs when the connecting rod in nearly straight up, and there is very little leverage that can turn the crankshaft. (A lot of force is trying to bend the crankshaft...)

With a cam driven engine, you can design the amount of leverage you have; rather than being locked in to a sinusoidal piston motion.

On the Shepard engine, is the combustion sleeve inside (and concentric with) the rotating cam sleeve? I wonder why the levers are required at all, then?

Christ 12-26-2009 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard (Post 150121)
Yes, it is a cam driven engine, like the Revetec (that I mentioned earlier). The problem with a crankshaft engine is the maximum pressure occurs when the connecting rod in nearly straight up, and there is very little leverage that can turn the crankshaft. (A lot of force is trying to bend the crankshaft...)

With a cam driven engine, you can design the amount of leverage you have; rather than being locked in to a sinusoidal piston motion.

On the Shepard engine, is the combustion sleeve inside (and concentric with) the rotating cam sleeve? I wonder why the levers are required at all, then?

Check out Honda's R-series engines. The crank is slightly offset, so TDC is actually slightly aft of traditional crank angle, and the combustion pressure builds when the piston/rod assembly would be creating a leveraged force on the crank shaft.

Bicycle Bob 12-26-2009 11:20 PM

"The problem with a crankshaft engine is the maximum pressure occurs when the connecting rod in nearly straight up, and there is very little leverage that can turn the crankshaft."
The only with problem with that is a bit of blow-by and cooling as the piston slowly accelerates. The potential energy of the main charge is not affected, just stored. It might be better to design an engine that holds the combustion chamber volume constant throughout the burn time, but it would be slow and heavy. A regular crank system gives the lowest average acceleration forces on a piston and rod, yet an engine is still more likely to be destroyed by internal inertia forces than combustion pressure.

Silveredwings 12-27-2009 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard (Post 147830)
Hi,

I'm thinking that beyond the bike, which is awesome -- the fact that such an amazing machine was conceived of, designed, built from scratch in 11 months, and have it perform at such a high level is quite inspiring!

What sort of things are possible if one wants to build an uber-efficient EV in a backyard workshop?

I can't wait to find out. ONLY IN MAYNARD :thumbup:

bgd73 01-08-2010 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christ (Post 147819)
As awesome as it would be to own one, I think I'd end up killing myself on it. I don't think I could resist lifting the front end up a little bit every time I hit the throttle, and that's what got me in trouble the last time I had a bike years ago... that and just speed in general.

That's why I bought a 180cc... :)

I was a nut first trip out too. Never got a bike. I turned into a torquer.

This britten guy a had a few benefits. the stoich was maxxed enough to crack cylinders. manufactures pansy all thier products to respect warranty and maintain reputation. Who was going to stop him? nothing to lose but the drivers... :rolleyes:

and the choice for v-twin..the strangest ever. outright flunking bizarre.

love the bimmer photos. If me to get a bike, it is that or the flat four goldwing.

I do like the opening under the seat, in brittens design, for the engine he was working with...and he still cracked a cylinder. The vtwin is a nut.

Christ 01-08-2010 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgd73 (Post 152847)
I was a nut first trip out too. Never got a bike. I turned into a torquer.

This britten guy a had a few benefits. the stoich was maxxed enough to crack cylinders. manufactures pansy all thier products to respect warranty and maintain reputation. Who was going to stop him? nothing to lose but the drivers... :rolleyes:

and the choice for v-twin..the strangest ever. outright flunking bizarre.

love the bimmer photos. If me to get a bike, it is that or the flat four goldwing.

I do like the opening under the seat, in brittens design, for the engine he was working with...and he still cracked a cylinder. The vtwin is a nut.

I've got a GL1000.. I think it's a '78, and it's got a BoS from Georgia, so you can get a title. You want it?

dann6968 03-08-2010 03:41 AM

One of my favourite V-twins. Worth big money today.

womprat 10-12-2010 12:05 AM

The cooling...
 
I regret not seeing a Britten V1000 full blat in real life, unless someone revives the project the way the Britten family mishandled the estate means doubt we ever will.

Although I've seen one, there is bike #007 (6?) on display in the national musem near me, and I occasionally make a pilgrimage. ;)

One thing that struck me about the design was the fully ducted cooling. Looking it up close I noticed the two intakes for the cooling are so small you couldn't fit your fist in. Yet that disapates the heat of a 160hp race motor. I read that Britten found their cooling system to be so efficient they could significantly reduce the frontal aera of the cooling intake, set them further back and out of the airflow. They no doubt gained quite a bit of aero improvement from this.

They also found the narrow V-Twin also got a lot of cooling via airflow over the engine casing, and advantage of not being enclosed in fairing, yet being sufficiently out of direct airflow (engine shielded by front wheel and the girder-suspension with it's own fairing).

So I think theres something in this for ecomodders. Efficient fully ducted cooling, by adding a small secondary radiator somewhere? And a moveable grill block flap to completely shut off the main rad when not needed?

NeilBlanchard 10-12-2010 10:56 AM

Definitely, there is a lesson for all cooling aerodynamics in this design.


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