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-   -   Koenigsegg camless engine and compressed air hybrid (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/koenigsegg-camless-engine-compressed-air-hybrid-25016.html)

tjts1 02-20-2013 05:55 PM

Koenigsegg camless engine and compressed air hybrid
 
You can skip the first couple of minutes, the interesting bit is toward the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bch5B23_pu0

niky 02-20-2013 09:09 PM

Fascinating stuff!

HydroJim 02-20-2013 10:40 PM

I've been thinking about doing just this sort of thing! Too bad I didn't have all the money ):

Krayzie 02-20-2013 11:06 PM

super cool

sendler 02-21-2013 06:24 AM

Finally getting rid of the cam shaft. Amazing it took so long. One day. all but the cheapest engines will have computer actuated valves.

NeilBlanchard 02-21-2013 09:02 AM

My question is this: where does the air pressure come from? Would electric actuation be more or less efficient?

Frank Lee 02-21-2013 09:07 AM

From turning the engine into an air pump on deceleration. And I presume there's an ICE driven pump for air demands outside of decel...?

2000neon 02-21-2013 09:18 AM

You are probably right, I wonder if there's any tricks to starting it up if the cars has been sitting for a while. I suppose it would have to always keep some pressure built up for the next startup, until the compressor could build up more pressure. As a supercar I would imagine that it sits parked far more often than it's driven, I wonder if there are any tricks to it like relieving pressure before storage, and building up more before startup. Although they could avoid that if it used an electrically driven air compressor that could run for a second before firing the motor.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 02-21-2013 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sendler (Post 357465)
Finally getting rid of the cam shaft. Amazing it took so long. One day. all but the cheapest engines will have computer actuated valves.

I've once found pictures of a French 4-stroke gasser which used sleeve valves without a camshaft.

darcane 02-21-2013 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr (Post 357516)
I've once found pictures of a French 4-stroke gasser which used sleeve valves without a camshaft.

There's also Coates rotary valvetrain:
Coates International Ltd. - Home
No cams...

The Koenigsegg video is very cool and has a nice explanation on how it works. But, it's not exactly new... BMW had a functional protype (using electric solenoids IIRC) about a decade ago. Still hasn't made it to production yet.

sendler 02-21-2013 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr (Post 357516)
I've once found pictures of a French 4-stroke gasser which used sleeve valves without a camshaft.

It's not really just the lack of a cam shaft that will make this technology impressive. It is the fact that the valve timing and duration is completely under infinite computer control. The BMW engines with variable lift and no throttle are impressive. As is the Fiat multi air engine which is almost as versatile as the Koenig but only manipulates the intake cams.

Jyden 02-21-2013 05:18 PM

Interesting - 30% better FE with 20% more power etc.
starts to look very promising.

sendler 02-21-2013 05:58 PM

That's the beauty of getting rid of the cam shaft. You can have the most economic valve timing profile one instant and crazy high rpm peak power the next.

niky 02-21-2013 06:36 PM

I'd heard the problems with the BMW system were that it couldn't reach the same engine speeds that you could reach with a cammed system... but for roadgoing economy engines, that's not a big deal, I guess.

What's most impressive with the Koenigsegg video is that they say the test mule has already done 60,000 miles over two years. Still not a lot of miles, but that's a good sign.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 02-22-2013 01:12 AM

I remember Porsche was developing a cam-less electromagnetic valvetrain a few years ago. It was supposed to deal better with higher revvings than a pneumatic one.

Flakbadger 06-23-2013 02:17 PM

So I was totally going to post this video, and then thought "I should do a search to see if someone else posted this."

Turns out someone had. What an awesome technological innovation!

EDIT: for the lazy

Xist 06-23-2013 03:46 PM

Is this the car with four hundred carbon-fiber components? I watched a video on YouTube where they showed the carbon fiber valve cover!

UltArc 06-23-2013 10:58 PM

I LOVE Koenigsegg. They are so fantastic- a true super car, McLaren F1 style.

Thank you, OP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by niky (Post 357582)
I'd heard the problems with the BMW system were that it couldn't reach the same engine speeds that you could reach with a cammed system... but for roadgoing economy engines, that's not a big deal, I guess.

What's most impressive with the Koenigsegg video is that they say the test mule has already done 60,000 miles over two years. Still not a lot of miles, but that's a good sign.

*60,000 kilometers

It may not be the first of its kind, but it doesn't seem like anyone else has put it in a car, and had it successfully work for over two years and almost 40k miles.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 06-24-2013 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltArc (Post 377569)
I LOVE Koenigsegg. They are so fantastic- a true super car, McLaren F1 style.

They started using modded Ford Modular engines, but then they started to develop a whole higher level of technology.

UltArc 06-24-2013 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr (Post 377591)
They started using modded Ford Modular engines, but then they started to develop a whole higher level of technology.

Yepp. I found them a bit before they were on Top Gear, and after seeing how impressive it was then, it's always been, in my opinion, the true epitome of a supercar company. I think of Porsche 30 years ago and how easy it was to go from having fun, to killing yourself in a car. It makes me think of that simplicity taken to an entire new level. And like you said, the engine technology- when they replaced the Ford engine they were using in the CCX to the new engine, and it's performance differences between petrol or biofuel.

I also think its amusing, their top speeds. What is it? "Oh, it goes past 240. " Well, how much faster? "We didn't bother checking the max, but it goes that fast."

(Not direct quotes, but from what I read, thats how the conversation goes :) )

UFO 06-24-2013 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltArc (Post 377683)
Yepp. I found them a bit before they were on Top Gear, and after seeing how impressive it was then, it's always been, in my opinion, the true epitome of a supercar company. I think of Porsche 30 years ago and how easy it was to go from having fun, to killing yourself in a car. It makes me think of that simplicity taken to an entire new level. And like you said, the engine technology- when they replaced the Ford engine they were using in the CCX to the new engine, and it's performance differences between petrol or biofuel.

I also think its amusing, their top speeds. What is it? "Oh, it goes past 240. " Well, how much faster? "We didn't bother checking the max, but it goes that fast."

(Not direct quotes, but from what I read, thats how the conversation goes :) )

Typical for a car with a whole lot of power, it's not built for top speed but acceleration. I have a track car with double the factory hp, enough to top out over 150mph, but I will never take it there as too many other things that will go wrong.

serialk11r 06-29-2013 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sendler (Post 357522)
It's not really just the lack of a cam shaft that will make this technology impressive. It is the fact that the valve timing and duration is completely under infinite computer control. The BMW engines with variable lift and no throttle are impressive. As is the Fiat multi air engine which is almost as versatile as the Koenig but only manipulates the intake cams.

Well you have to remember that any energy going into moving the valve is completely lost vs. with a camshaft you get most of it back. The Fiat Multiair system has that problem too, it loses all the energy in the valve spring in some modes. How significant this energy is, I don't know, but the valves in a car engine do have some significant mass that needs to be controlled.

Still, it's great to see that they've been running camless valves for 2 years, I'm sure not many other companies can say that.

UltArc 06-29-2013 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UFO (Post 377690)
Typical for a car with a whole lot of power, it's not built for top speed but acceleration. I have a track car with double the factory hp, enough to top out over 150mph, but I will never take it there as too many other things that will go wrong.

A typical super car has a very clear top speed, from my experience. Ferrari, Lamborghini, the smaller companies- when they make a car, they are always quick with the facts. This reminds me of the old Rolls Royce, where things are rated as "sufficient."

Not always is it accurate, but it's defined- of course wind, direction, temps make a difference, but they state a number. I have never weighed myself and thought "greater than 200" or think of my fuel economy as "greater than 30." The generalization of it implies that such a large number is meaningless- which I think is funny.


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